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Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
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Eyes on or hands on? A discussion of human interference
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 (12-11-2014, 10:10 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:Dr. Alan Robowitz used camera traps to find the corridor through bhutan. Which you are already aware of. WWF uses camera traps and works with many wildlife biologists, drs, FD, and many others.(12-09-2014, 12:56 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Nobody is "attacking" scientific procedure. Especially the fact that scientists are using these camera traps in their findings.Scientists? Sorry, but to have a camera don't make a person a "scientists". It requires... a liiiitle more time in University. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] List goes on.
From Apollo
"My take on regarding radiocollaring, I too spoke to several amateur photographers and amateur naturalists regarding the collaring issue on tigers. Almost all of them were against collaring the tigers. The common reasons what they gave was * These collars make tigers to carry unwanted weight around its neck. * Some of the tigers showed uncomfortable behaviours when there is a collar around its neck. Generally it has been proposed stating that the weight of the tracking device should not exceed 5% of the host‟s bodyweight in order to avoid detrimental effects to behavior (Cochran 1980; Aldridge and Brigham 1988). But in the case of the tigers collared the collar weight was 1% of the entire body weight. But still I wont rule out the possibility of behavioural changes (because these are living animals and not machines) An example is Gabbar from Tadoba seems to run away from vehicles after being collared. This is definitely a behavioural change. Collaring is not only about the radio collar but the entire process involved. Another example is a collared tiger in Ranthambore started showing more aggressive behaviour towards vehicles. We have to remember unlike the collared tigers in Russia these tiger reserves in India are big tourist attraction centers. So the guides, drivers, photographers, naturalists will see these tigers day in and day out and will definitely notice if there is a change in the behavioural pattern. * Several tigers in Kanha were collared 10 years ago (2004-2009) for research purposes but not a single study or research paper as been published yet. * Among all the tigers collared initially at Kanha, all of them died except one and what research the scientists did and why didnt they publish anything on their research work, instead they started collaring more new tigers. One example is a tiger named Arjuna (one of the link 7 brothers) died after a territorial battle with Munna. When his body was examined they found that one of his front paw was stuck in the collar through his claws. This immobilized Arjuna and could have cost is downfall. The claws were so firmly stuck to the collar that the vets were unable to remove it, so finally they cut the collar to get the frontlimb out. Another example is a tiger named Pattewala male (brother of Munna and he was collared) went missing after a fight with Munna and no attempts were made to track him and find him, he is still being missing and considered dead. Umarpani tigress's collar was cut and removed because there was a big maggot infested infection around the collar portion. T4 tigress died due to infection around radio collar in Panna. On T4's death Madhya Pradesh's chief wildlife warden Narendra Kumar said "It seems the radio-collar caused infection around her neck". Wildlife biologist Vidya Athreya the one who collared the T4 tigress said "It is likely that the Panna tigress had a wound on her neck which the collar did not allow for healing". Athreya also adds that in a place like Africa, where visibility is good and there are not as many people as in India, you can drive up to the animal, see it clearly and then intervene if the animal has a problem with the collar etc. * Tracking tigers for tourism purpose where there is zero scientific values. All the tigers collared initially at Kanha were from tourism zone. * There are faulty collars which dont work, hence the tiger as to be recaptured and recollared. and some more points similar to this. What I would say is * These people are amateur photographers and amateur naturalists, they love these tigers and they know alot about these animals life history but they lack the authority to question scientific methods. * Most of their complaints were due to poor management by the autorities on collaring tigers. * They talk out of passion and love for this animals. They think radio collars and collaring process can be annoying and stressful for tigers but this method as been successfully used by scientists on different animals for research purposes. They miss the point that greater good which comes out of collaring a few for the species or subspecies as a whole. * No matter how good a scientific method is, it all depends on the authority and the management which governs it. One example is Faulty radio collars force scientists to kill 18 deer http://www.thelocal.ch/20130903/botched-...ll-18-fawn There are frequency alotment issues in India =mediumRadio collar stuck in Customs dept, release of tigress into Pench stalled Refusal by the Wireless Planning Commission (WPC) under the Union Ministry of Communications and IT to allot a frequency for a radio collar has stalled the release of a tigress into Pench National Park. The satellite-aided radio collar, costing Rs 3.5 lakh with accessories, had reached India from Germany in February. However, the importer has been unable to retrieve it from the Customs Department following the Centre’s decision to not grant any new frequencies. The four-and-a-half year old tigress — TF1 — is one of the three orphaned siblings brought to Pench in Nagpur district from the then Bor Sanctuary (now a tiger reserve). The cubs were raised by the Forest Department in captivity and released into soft enclosures over a year ago. After studying their behaviour, the officials found that the male — TM1 — showed familiarity with humans and was unfit for release in the wild. TF1, on the other hand, was kept in a large enclosure (3.5 ha) and was hunting the live animals released in the enclosure. “We decided to release her in the wild first. For that, we need the radio collar to keep a watch on her movements. So, we placed an order,” said Pench Field Director M S Reddy. Sumit Sabharwal of A&S Creations said, “We have been told by WPS officials that no new frequencies are being granted since June 30, so we will have to wait till the new allotment starts.” http://indianexpress.com/article/india/i...h-stalled/ Im not being irresponsible or blaming radiocollars for Gabbar's lose in weight, but instead the weight loss concides with the collaring. Reserves like Bandhavgarh and Tadoba have prey availability throughout the year and there is less seasonal changes compared to reserves in the north. Thats why generally we see very less variations in tigers physique in these reserves. Regarding your questions Guate 1. Who is collaring these tigers? 2. Why they are been radiocollared? As far as I know there is forest department, state government, central government, governement approved vets, biologists etc are involved in one way or the other, but more details can be obtained only when anything is published. Forest department always says tigers are collared to monitor there movements, ecology etc . You say "Every process can be safe, as long as is carrying out by professionals." But the snares used in Russia were done by professionals and it was never a safe method, everyone knew but still the so called professionals used it. You dont need a Phd to know that snares are dangerous for animals, snaring animals is being practiced for centuries by hunters, poachers etc. I see a debate going on in radio collaring vs cameratrapping. Are cameratraps the next step from radiocollars in tiger conservation in India ? Can cameratraps replace radiocollars in India ? The real question is what radiocollars can do which the cameratraps cannot and what the cameratraps can do which the radiocollars cannot. What are the disadvantages on cameratrapping and radiocollaring. "
Nasa Contributing to new tools for camera trapping
http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1026-remot...ation.html Just to show, its not just some FD officials using these, these are highly advanced pieces of technology develpoded by some of the smartest people alive. =13pxWith scientists rapidly adopting and using a range of remote sensing tools for monitoring environmental change, tracking wildlife and measuring biological processes, conservation needs to scale up networking capabilities to maximize the potential of this technological revolution, argues a commentary published in the journal Science. NASA's Woody Turner breaks sensing technologies into two scales: remote sensing platforms like satellites and airplanes, and in-situ devices like camera traps, drones, phones, tags, and sensors. "Remote sensing involves a wide array of tools and techniques on orbiting satellites and flying aircraft," he writes. "It enables directly observing large-scale ecosystems and large organisms, depicting the broader environmental context for biodiversity, tracking climatic and other drivers of biodiversity change (often for use in ecological models), and making consistent observations across time and space for biodiversity monitoring." "Remote sensing is increasingly complemented by in situ sensing with cameras on stationary objects or small drones, sound recorders, cell phones, electronic tags, and fragments of genetic material sampled directly from the environment." Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1026-remot...z3LctJ0WCU =13pxTurner says conservation effort would benefit from increased coordination between remote sensing and in situ approaches. But this isn't a simple undertaking. "The data from satellites, aircraft, and in situ sensors cover a vast range of spatial scales. Use of these sensing data in concert requires sophisticated networking and geostatistical analysis to fill gaps between fine-scale organismal or genetic observations and ecosystem-scale observations. Similar networks are necessary to tie biodiversity observations to data on broader environmental drivers of change," he writes. "Scale is not the only issue. The multitude of sensor types used to measure elements of biodiversity even at the same spatial scale further complicates networking, as does the integration of information from models. All observations and models come with their individual uncertainties, which must be addressed by any networking framework." Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1026-remot...z3Lct2jsX4 =13pxTurner notes that initiatives to coordinate data collection and monitoring across various scales are currently in their infancy, but nonetheless moving forward. He points to the National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON), a program being developed by the United States to collect environmental data across 20 "eco-climatic domains", as well as an international program under the Group on Earth Observations (GEO). "The international Group on Earth Observations (GEO) partnership, particularly its global Biodiversity Observation Network (GEO BON), is a first attempt by national governments to jointly coordinate satellite, airborne, and in situ observations across biodiversity elements through genes, species, and ecosystems," he writes. "This effort is crucial for meeting governments' obligations to assess national biodiversity under the Convention on Biological Diversity and the Intergovernmental Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services." Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1026-remot...z3LctUZYAh  *This image is copyright of its original author and more It's no secret that when it comes to the wild cats of Asia—and, really, cats in general—tigers get all the press. In fact, tigers—down to an estimated 3,200 individuals—arguably dominate conservation across Asia. But as magnificent, grand, and endangered as the tigers are, there are a number of other felines in the region that are much less studied—and may be just as imperiled. A new, special edition of Cat News from the IUCN's Cat Specialist Group attempts to shine a light on Southeast Asia's other cats: nine small-to-medium sized cats that are not a part of the big cat genus, Panthera. Of these nine, cat conservationists say two are in particular need of research and conservation attention: the flat-headed cat (Prionailurus planiceps) and the fishing cat (Prionailurus viverrinus). Most of Southeast Asia's cats have been studied in recent years using remote camera trap data in surveys set up for bigger cats, such as tigers and leopards, or other charismatic mammals. While these camera traps have revolutionized our understanding of some cryptic cats, like Borneo's bay cat (Catopuma badia), which appears more common than long-believed. It has also meant that species not found in so-called tiger areas have been overlooked. "There are still gaps in our understanding because most of the camera-trap data comes from forest habitats (where tigers predominate) rather than wetlands, streams, and scrub forest which are evidently the more preferred habitats for [the fishing cat, flat-headed cat, and jungle cat]," conservationists Christine Breitenmoser, Will Duckworth, and Antony Lynam told mongabay.com in a recent interview. "These species are conservation priorities largely due to their rarity and levels of threat faced. If there were lots of them still around, more should be turning up in trade but they are not." Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1021-hance...z3LctlkyDd =13pxThe bay cat: only found in Borneo this cat has long eluded scientists until recently. Photo by: Andrew Hearn and Jo Ross. The biggest threat facing the region's cat species is habitat destruction. Parts of Southeast Asia now have some of the highest deforestation rates on the planet—Indonesia and Malaysia—exacerbated by the rapid spread of monoculture plantations, such as oil palm, pulp, and rubber. Meanwhile, much of the human pressure in the region is focused on wetlands, key habitat for both the fishing cat and the flat-headed cat. Hunting is also worsening the situation. "Small cats are not usually direct targets for poachers but they are collateral damage that gets caught in snare-lines along with other types of animals," the scientists said. "For clouded leopards, favored prey species such as wild pig and muntjac are also subject to hunting for wild meat, so prey loss is additionally a key threat." So, how do we keep these cats around? "Maintaining large tracts of forest habitat, keeping roads out of these places, and actively protecting them from poaching and other disturbances, should be a prescription for stabilizing populations for many wild cats," the scientists say. In an October 2014 interview, the authors of the introductory paper in the special issue told mongabay.com why these cats have been long neglected and what needs to happen to better understand and, ultimately, protect them. INTERVIEW WITH CHRISTINE BREITENMOSER, WILL DUCKWORTH, AND ANTONY LYNAM Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1021-hance...z3LctrdEAw =13pxA mainland clouded leopard in Thailand. This is the region's third biggest cat after the tiger and leopard. Photo by: Wanlop Chutipong. Mongabay: Why should these nine cat species—those found in South East Asia not including tigers and leopard—be a higher conservation and research priority? Christine Breitenmoser, Will Duckworth, and Antony Lynam: The smaller cat species are generally poorly known in terms of basic status and distribution. We know even less about their ecology, habitat preferences, and activity patterns. This is because there are few dedicated field studies while most of the information available comes from so-called 'by-catch' data from camera-trap studies done for the larger cats, especially tigers. This in itself reflects the dearth of available conservation funds for species that are not flamboyant, charismatic species with high commercial value. For these reasons, the smaller cats deserve more attention from conservationists and researchers. While it is clear that there are no imminent threats of regional extinction to most of the species, three of them (one of which, flat-headed cat, occurs only in Southeast Asia) might well be seriously threatened. For two of these (flat-headed cat and fishing cat) the available information is too poor to know exactly where and how to deploy resources (assuming they could be secured) to conserve them. For the third species (jungle cat) one priority area is clear (northern Cambodia) but another area (dry-zone Myanmar) that might well hold large population is unsurveyed. In sum: without specific conservation measures in their favor, continued major declines in SE Asia are likely for these three species, and without greatly increased further research, any conservation measures may be inefficient and even ineffective. Mongabay: How have camera traps revolutionized our understanding of South East Asia's medium and small cats? Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1021-hance...z3LctwV99t =13pxChristine Breitenmoser, Will Duckworth, and Antony Lynam: Wild cats tend to be hard to observe due to their secretive habits, because most of them live in dense tropical forests and are at least partly nocturnal and thus require specialized survey methods to detect them. It's for these reasons that spotlighting and camera-traps are most useful survey methods for smaller cats. Camera-traps are remotely-triggered devices that are usually placed at ground level where they detect movements of all wildlife (and human) traffic passing in front of the beam. So camera-traps set for larger cats along trails at ground level have picked up the portion of smaller cat traffic that uses these same habitats. What they do not pick up—unless specifically set to do so—is the activity above the ground, or off trails, or in specialized habitats such as wetlands, open forest or scrubland. The three species of most conservation concern in Southeast Asia (flat-headed cat, fishing cat, and jungle cat) are all inhabitants of wetlands, open forest and scrubland. This is why they need specific research and conservation—it is not happening 'on the back' of the famous species. Mongabay: Why should fishing cat and the flat-headed cat be made the conservation priorities of this group of nine species? Christine Breitenmoser, Will Duckworth, and Antony Lynam: When we put all the camera-trap data together, we still find that for some species, such as fishing cat, flat-headed cat and jungle cat, there are still gaps in our understanding because most of the camera-trap data comes from forest habitats (where tigers predominate) rather than wetlands, streams, and scrub forest which are evidently the more preferred habitats for these species. These species are conservation priorities largely due to their rarity and levels of threat faced. If there were lots of them still around, more should be turning up in trade but they are not, and for all of them there are good a priori reasons based on habitat to assume major declines. Mongabay: How might the chosen habitat of flat-headed cats and fishing cats make them much more vulnerable than other cats in the group? All Images and much more information found here http://news.mongabay.com/2014/1021-hance...-cats.html All gained through camera traps
A huge list of multiple species being protected and monitored through camera traps
http://news.mongabay.com/news-index/came...ping1.html Whether is shows amur leopards breeding in china, tropical mammals on the decline, java rhino population jumping 10%, protecting Yusani from oil drilling..... and it goes on and on..... http://news.mongabay.com/news-index/came...ping1.html How in the world does putting a collar on any animal stack up to this technology, while putting these animals through 0 stress compared to the collars. 
None of these copy-paste articles say anything about the study of the behavior of the animals. The camera traps are good, I have say it several times, but they are used to estimate density of animals, to get an idea if “x” animal is living in a “y” place or if it still alive, and with look, some of those cameras capture a few glimpses of animal behavior.
The problem here is that although the cameras can be used to monitor populations, they are unable to record the animal behavior in the long therm. Your own post says it, “cameras are used to monitor and protect animals”, but they are useless, yet, to understand the behavior of these animals. Finally, your own post also shows the use of radiocollars in the studies: *This image is copyright of its original author Both methods are useful, that is a real holistic study, but I simply can’t understand that hate for the radiocollars from you. In your point of view, animals must be protected and leave them alone. However, this ignores the fact that to protect these animals in the long term, with the growing human population, we most know the behavior and needs of these animals. Sadly, you have chosen to ignore this. (12-11-2014, 10:52 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Dr. Alan Robowitz used camera traps to find the corridor through bhutan. Which you are already aware of. WWF uses camera traps and works with many wildlife biologists, drs, FD, and many others.Yes, Dr Rabinowits used cameras, but this because they were not sure if tigers lived there and because it was the easy way to know if the tigers lived there. You are very confused about the use of cameras. After they known of the tigers in this area, the next logic steep would be to make a long therm study, but this depend of the money and time. Cameras are useful here to know the tiger density and the possible available prey, but they will be unable to show us the particular behavior of the tigers in this area. 
Guate's post 96 sums up what I've found from the info. Camera traps are great for general populus measures as it's like a net that catches glimpses of whatever comes its way, while radiocollaring provides specific behavioral data as it provides a direct route to following and monitoring a specimen. Great migratory feats such as that presented by brotherbear can only be recorded if we've track of the animal directly, as we can't predict places where the specimen will go to situate the camera traps.
The recent failures, in my opinion, are likely due to incompetence of those performing the procedures. There's no arguing that collaring is causing deaths, but the bulk of these deaths is in modern times. The Smithsonian project did relatively okay in the 70s-80s. This project (the one with the big Nuna Bhale I found out about), on the other hand, was spot on: http://environmentportal.in/files/Tiger%...flicts.pdf No radio-collar related deaths. Collaring was used for a right cause, to monitor and prevent maneating. I won't ask anyone to read that 50 page paper, but it essentially outlines when and where radio-collaring is an actual asset in the human-wildlife system. Let's continue on with an open mind. The human-wildlife topic is a complex one, where's heads will clash at times, but we're all here with the right intentions.
That is EXACTLY what I am saying many times: the method is good and useful, the problem is the people that use it.
However, Pctks and "others" are so closed in they mind that simple choose to reject everything, instead of see the full context of the situation. I am convinced that the radiocollaring in Kanha is wrong, as they are not been captured for scientific purposes (not a single study has been published) but only for tourism. However, this doesn't mean that the studies in Nepal and several other places are also wrong. Sadly, I am also convinced that Pckts is not going to change his mind, and that is, I am afraid, a dead end.
I feel the collar debate has hit several peaks. More points are welcome, but I propose we look into some different aspects of human interference, there's more to it than camera traps and radio collars. We need to progress our online wildlife sanctuary after all.
See that 50 page report on man-eaters? Let's discuss and/or debate on how we should deal with man-eaters. This is a problem that has political, ecological, and social aspects to it. If the members are up for a new, fresh discussion, posts your much appreciated points and I'll chime in as well.
Actually, I'll take the initiative. Here's an article on India's man-eaters.
Scientific response needed to deal with man-eaters: expert Two States that have celebrated a formidably successful tiger conservation programme — Tamil Nadu and Karnataka — have, over four weeks, turned into the site of unprecedented conflict between the endangered animal and people. Eight people have been killed by tigers in four weeks in Karnataka’s Bandipur Tiger Reserve and in Tamil Nadu’s Nilgiris; and three of the four animals involved in the attacks are assumed to be man-eaters — carnivores that persistently prey on people. Two tigers have since been captured in Karnataka, and the Tamil Nadu Forest Department has begun to track the man-eater (assumed to be a tiger, although some say it could be a leopard) around Doddabetta in the Nilgiris. In the latest national tiger census of 2011, Karnataka made it to the top spot in tiger abundance with 300 animals, and Tamil Nadu saw a 53 per cent addition (the highest jump in any State) to its tiger population that now stands at 163. The cluster of forests where the latest attacks happened (Mudumalai-Bandipur-Nagarhole protected areas) have some of the highest densities of tigers in the world, with 10 to 15 animals per 100 sq km, according to survey figures with the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS), Bangalore. While wildlife biologists, who spoke to The Hindu, differed on the ecology of man-eaters, and whether their behaviour was a function of their growing population, they concurred that the forest departments ought to have acted swiftly and scientifically to prevent an escalation of human casualties, which they said would eventually “undermine conservation efforts.” Ullas Karanth, director WCS-India, said tracking and capturing a man-eater, rather than identifying and eliminating it, can cause a fatal lapse. “Delays in eliminating a man-eater from the site means more human casualties as we saw in Bandipur, and this naturally creates hostility among communities towards the forest department and to conservation efforts in general,” said Dr. Karanth. Moreover, a wild caught big cat does not adapt to captivity and leads a life of perennial stress and fear, Dr. Karanth said. “A scientific response, not an emotional one, is necessary while addressing a problem animal.” While the conventional assumption is that large carnivores turn man-eaters when they are incapable of hunting their natural prey — that is when they are old, injured or spurned by territorial fights to forest fringes — Vidya Athreya, a wildlife biologist who studies human-leopard conflict in Maharashtra, says there has been virtually no conclusive study that explains why wild carnivores attack people unprovoked. “All we know is that it is extremely aberrant behaviour for a carnivore to overcome its huge fear of humans, and to attack them.” Dr. Athreya believes that man-eaters “should be removed soon” with the help of patrol teams and “a qualified government shooter.” Pointing to the need to create interconnectivity between tiger habitats, a paper, co-authored by Uma Ramakrishnan of the National Centre for Biological Sciences and published in PlosOne last year says: “Increasing local tiger abundance, while important, will be an inadequate conservation strategy in the absence of population connectivity.” The study shows that tigers travel enormous distances in their lifespan and identified an individual that migrated at least 345 km. *end article* So, the point in bold. Do you agree with such an approach, why or why not? I kindly ask all members take their part in starting something new here and abandoning the previous debate for the sake of the quality of this board. (12-12-2014, 10:32 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: Guate's post 96 sums up what I've found from the info. Camera traps are great for general populus measures as it's like a net that catches glimpses of whatever comes its way, while radiocollaring provides specific behavioral data as it provides a direct route to following and monitoring a specimen. Great migratory feats such as that presented by brotherbear can only be recorded if we've track of the animal directly, as we can't predict places where the specimen will go to situate the camera traps. Like I said, Jai's massive trek was recorded by camera traps. Leopards breeding in China was reported by camera traps. Etc... You don't need a radiocollar to track a migration of a animal if you are able to view the forrest through camera traps, this is already proven. (12-12-2014, 11:26 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: Actually, I'll take the initiative. Here's an article on India's man-eaters. My first reaction to this is.... What does it matter if a tiger is a "man eater" or not. Its a tiger, its a meat eater. Humans are meat, end of story. To brand a cat "evil" because it preys on humans is outrageous. Its amazing how much we encrouch on their territory that they don't eat more human beings. In fact, the occurance is relatively rare compared to how many people are constantly intruding on their territory. Look at the place its most prevelent, Sumatra. We have completely destroyed their forrest, its gone. We constantly invade what little territory is left, we have killed all of their other prey options. What do we expect? (12-12-2014, 10:45 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: That is EXACTLY what I am saying many times: the method is good and useful, the problem is the people that use it. "closed mind" Because we want to stop stressing out wild animals, killing them for information that can easily be obtained through less stressful means. This is already proven and I am still waiting for any information that can benefit a Tiger via radio collar that cannot be retrived through camera traps. Examples would be appreciated, please note, using migratory examples are not new and have already been monitored via camera traps. So outside of located a individual tiger for viewing or testing, what benefit can be gained through them that cannot be gained through camera traps, drones, photographers etc.  (12-12-2014, 11:16 AM)tigerluver Wrote: I feel the collar debate has hit several peaks. More points are welcome, but I propose we look into some different aspects of human interference, there's more to it than camera traps and radio collars. We need to progress our online wildlife sanctuary after all. Again Guate and Pckts, This thread is heating up. Advice to take break with camera trap and radio-collars. And put your head in some fresh debate. If this continue, I will close this thread. This is request. Tigerluver Killing a tiger is not solution. As pckts said, Its human who are responsible for all this incident, not the tiger. Actually human is one of the most idiot species on earth, though they have considered themselves as the most intelligent species on earth, but human have never got proper solution for natural problems, in fact they become enemy of nature itself. I think after dinosaurs, human will also be extincted from earth in future. |
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