There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Dholes (Cuon alpinus)

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****

(02-03-2019, 03:06 PM)Shadow Wrote:
Quote:So out of 22 dogs, 12 were killed and even more were seriously injured?
Didn't seem very believable that the entire pack would basically go on a suicide mission vs a tiger like that...
Idea has been to find as much different sources and possible observations as possible. If someone believes or not is another thing. Feel free to believe or not. Sunquist & Sunquist thinked, that it was worth to mention. It is very clear, that some people don´t believe. But dholes have quite a reputation and some people want to find out as much as possible about it. And to what it is based on. How many different sources are there etc.

It is interesting and only way to find pieces to puzzle is to search those. There is one interesting thing, man possible cases seems to come from biologists and hunters, who adore tigers. Still they share these cases for all of us to read. What reason they would have to make their favorite animal to be seen in "bad light"? Tiger fanboys in different forums for instance would never share this kind of stories. They would deny everything and try to make cases, like this last one, to vanish.

Objective researchers then again put everything up for everyone to see. Despite it, that does it look like to be "good" or "bad" for their favorite animal. Because objective truth about things and real interest to learn about wildlife is to look at all the facts, not only those which look nice for someone. At this point there looks like to be quite a lot different sources mentioning incidents, where situations between dholes and tiger have escalated to furious fights. Common feature has been, that it does mean many dead dholes if tiger is brought down. So from that point of view this latest case is not different.

I  am agree in the fact that is good to share this information, so we can analyze it. And under this analysis we can see that the account seems incredible, somehow real and accurate, but also at some point, drive to the realm of the fantastic stories. 

If this account is correct (which I think not), the survival group of dholes was of just 6 to 7 adults, enoght to recover the numbers. As far I remember the original source claim that the surviving dholes eat its dead ones too. Sad
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****

(02-04-2019, 05:08 AM)Shadow Wrote: I was looking a little bit about sources so far in this thread what comes to reputation of dholes.

I found these names: K. Anderson, J. Corbett, W. Rice, Burton, R.C. Morris, Robert Sterndale, R.I. Pocock, William Blanford, W. Connell, Kailash Sankhala, then also David Attenborough and Sunquist&Sunquist. One interesting book to find and read would be Whistling Hunters from M. Fox.

Rice, Burton and Morris did not saw a direct tiger vs dhole fight as far I know.

Anderson saw one and believed in the claims of the locals.  Connell did not even saw the event, he just quote it.

Sterndale and Pocock just believed and quoted what others saw and Blandford did not believed in those events.

Sankhala believe that tigers run in every moment, so not a good source at all.

David Attnborough is a good naturalist of TV, but be honest, he read what the books says, and Sunquist quoted the event for mere interest like us here, and he quote only those two events because only those are accuratelly described.

The book of M. Fox do not mention anything about tigers, as far I remember.
1 user Likes GuateGojira's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

(02-12-2019, 04:32 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(02-03-2019, 03:06 PM)Shadow Wrote:
Quote:So out of 22 dogs, 12 were killed and even more were seriously injured?
Didn't seem very believable that the entire pack would basically go on a suicide mission vs a tiger like that...
Idea has been to find as much different sources and possible observations as possible. If someone believes or not is another thing. Feel free to believe or not. Sunquist & Sunquist thinked, that it was worth to mention. It is very clear, that some people don´t believe. But dholes have quite a reputation and some people want to find out as much as possible about it. And to what it is based on. How many different sources are there etc.

It is interesting and only way to find pieces to puzzle is to search those. There is one interesting thing, man possible cases seems to come from biologists and hunters, who adore tigers. Still they share these cases for all of us to read. What reason they would have to make their favorite animal to be seen in "bad light"? Tiger fanboys in different forums for instance would never share this kind of stories. They would deny everything and try to make cases, like this last one, to vanish.

Objective researchers then again put everything up for everyone to see. Despite it, that does it look like to be "good" or "bad" for their favorite animal. Because objective truth about things and real interest to learn about wildlife is to look at all the facts, not only those which look nice for someone. At this point there looks like to be quite a lot different sources mentioning incidents, where situations between dholes and tiger have escalated to furious fights. Common feature has been, that it does mean many dead dholes if tiger is brought down. So from that point of view this latest case is not different.

I  am agree in the fact that is good to share this information, so we can analyze it. And under this analysis we can see that the account seems incredible, somehow real and accurate, but also at some point, drive to the realm of the fantastic stories. 

If this account is correct (which I think not), the survival group of dholes was of just 6 to 7 adults, enoght to recover the numbers. As far I remember the original source claim that the surviving dholes eat its dead ones too. Sad

My main interest personally is many times, as here too, to find out as much about some exceptional things. In which we are still in that limit, that it actually could happen if some animal(s) would for some reason act in unusual way compared to normal behavior. Time to time we see in nature things, which many wouldn´t believe if no photo or video. If I have understood right, there is ongoing research concerning tiger-dhole-leopard interaction, Karanth and others(?). So there is hope, that in quite near future again more information. 

I personally would be very interested to see situation, where a reasonable sized dhole pack makes a kill and tiger then going to steal it right away. But then again, I also wait to win in lottery....
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******

(02-12-2019, 05:12 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:32 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(02-03-2019, 03:06 PM)Shadow Wrote:
Quote:So out of 22 dogs, 12 were killed and even more were seriously injured?
Didn't seem very believable that the entire pack would basically go on a suicide mission vs a tiger like that...
Idea has been to find as much different sources and possible observations as possible. If someone believes or not is another thing. Feel free to believe or not. Sunquist & Sunquist thinked, that it was worth to mention. It is very clear, that some people don´t believe. But dholes have quite a reputation and some people want to find out as much as possible about it. And to what it is based on. How many different sources are there etc.

It is interesting and only way to find pieces to puzzle is to search those. There is one interesting thing, man possible cases seems to come from biologists and hunters, who adore tigers. Still they share these cases for all of us to read. What reason they would have to make their favorite animal to be seen in "bad light"? Tiger fanboys in different forums for instance would never share this kind of stories. They would deny everything and try to make cases, like this last one, to vanish.

Objective researchers then again put everything up for everyone to see. Despite it, that does it look like to be "good" or "bad" for their favorite animal. Because objective truth about things and real interest to learn about wildlife is to look at all the facts, not only those which look nice for someone. At this point there looks like to be quite a lot different sources mentioning incidents, where situations between dholes and tiger have escalated to furious fights. Common feature has been, that it does mean many dead dholes if tiger is brought down. So from that point of view this latest case is not different.

I  am agree in the fact that is good to share this information, so we can analyze it. And under this analysis we can see that the account seems incredible, somehow real and accurate, but also at some point, drive to the realm of the fantastic stories. 

If this account is correct (which I think not), the survival group of dholes was of just 6 to 7 adults, enoght to recover the numbers. As far I remember the original source claim that the surviving dholes eat its dead ones too. Sad

My main interest personally is many times, as here too, to find out as much about some exceptional things. In which we are still in that limit, that it actually could happen if some animal(s) would for some reason act in unusual way compared to normal behavior. Time to time we see in nature things, which many wouldn´t believe if no photo or video. If I have understood right, there is ongoing research concerning tiger-dhole-leopard interaction, Karanth and others(?). So there is hope, that in quite near future again more information. 

I personally would be very interested to see situation, where a reasonable sized dhole pack makes a kill and tiger then going to steal it right away. But then again, I also wait to win in lottery....
Not a large sized pack but the same scenario you're asking for 



"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
1 user Likes Pckts's post
Reply

United States smedz Offline
Banned


.pdf   pt1213.pdf (Size: 641.44 KB / Downloads: 2)  Speaking of Dhole, tiger, and leopard research, check this out. I know I already posted it somewhere, but still good information.
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

(02-12-2019, 05:23 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 05:12 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:32 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(02-03-2019, 03:06 PM)Shadow Wrote:
Quote:So out of 22 dogs, 12 were killed and even more were seriously injured?
Didn't seem very believable that the entire pack would basically go on a suicide mission vs a tiger like that...
Idea has been to find as much different sources and possible observations as possible. If someone believes or not is another thing. Feel free to believe or not. Sunquist & Sunquist thinked, that it was worth to mention. It is very clear, that some people don´t believe. But dholes have quite a reputation and some people want to find out as much as possible about it. And to what it is based on. How many different sources are there etc.

It is interesting and only way to find pieces to puzzle is to search those. There is one interesting thing, man possible cases seems to come from biologists and hunters, who adore tigers. Still they share these cases for all of us to read. What reason they would have to make their favorite animal to be seen in "bad light"? Tiger fanboys in different forums for instance would never share this kind of stories. They would deny everything and try to make cases, like this last one, to vanish.

Objective researchers then again put everything up for everyone to see. Despite it, that does it look like to be "good" or "bad" for their favorite animal. Because objective truth about things and real interest to learn about wildlife is to look at all the facts, not only those which look nice for someone. At this point there looks like to be quite a lot different sources mentioning incidents, where situations between dholes and tiger have escalated to furious fights. Common feature has been, that it does mean many dead dholes if tiger is brought down. So from that point of view this latest case is not different.

I  am agree in the fact that is good to share this information, so we can analyze it. And under this analysis we can see that the account seems incredible, somehow real and accurate, but also at some point, drive to the realm of the fantastic stories. 

If this account is correct (which I think not), the survival group of dholes was of just 6 to 7 adults, enoght to recover the numbers. As far I remember the original source claim that the surviving dholes eat its dead ones too. Sad

My main interest personally is many times, as here too, to find out as much about some exceptional things. In which we are still in that limit, that it actually could happen if some animal(s) would for some reason act in unusual way compared to normal behavior. Time to time we see in nature things, which many wouldn´t believe if no photo or video. If I have understood right, there is ongoing research concerning tiger-dhole-leopard interaction, Karanth and others(?). So there is hope, that in quite near future again more information. 

I personally would be very interested to see situation, where a reasonable sized dhole pack makes a kill and tiger then going to steal it right away. But then again, I also wait to win in lottery....
Not a large sized pack but the same scenario you're asking for 




Yes, this I had seen and that looked like to be a clean steal of kill. Pity that mute film, those sounds of dholes in different situations are also interesting. In one video was a comment "music added, because dhole sounds were so irritating" or something like that Sad
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

(02-12-2019, 04:39 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(02-04-2019, 05:08 AM)Shadow Wrote: I was looking a little bit about sources so far in this thread what comes to reputation of dholes.

I found these names: K. Anderson, J. Corbett, W. Rice, Burton, R.C. Morris, Robert Sterndale, R.I. Pocock, William Blanford, W. Connell, Kailash Sankhala, then also David Attenborough and Sunquist&Sunquist. One interesting book to find and read would be Whistling Hunters from M. Fox.

Rice, Burton and Morris did not saw a direct tiger vs dhole fight as far I know.

Anderson saw one and believed in the claims of the locals.  Connell did not even saw the event, he just quote it.

Sterndale and Pocock just believed and quoted what others saw and Blandford did not believed in those events.

Sankhala believe that tigers run in every moment, so not a good source at all.

David Attnborough is a good naturalist of TV, but be honest, he read what the books says, and Sunquist quoted the event for mere interest like us here, and he quote only those two events because only those are accuratelly described.

The book of M. Fox do not mention anything about tigers, as far I remember.
Yes, some of these said, that they visited "battlegrounds" afterwards, I think. But in those cases no dead tigers there to be seen. Of course when there are different sources it is interesting to see and compare descriptions etc. It can be too, that there have been some case(s) and then rumors have multiplied situation, so that it has happened here and there. It can´t be forgotten of course. 

I haven´t had time to read all those sources myself, but text of Sterndale looked like such, that he was doing his best. So when he take something like that to his book it of course is interesting to think, that would he have done it if he wouldn´t really believed in it for some reason. From these people Anderson is one of the biggest question marks for me as for many others too. 

Sankhala made some interesting conclusions yes, but as I said. I still believe that he wrote about his observations as he saw. So when separating observations from some opinions, I consider him as a good source. Unless someone can really prove, that he made up things just for fun.
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

Article about Dholes and conservation in Western Ghats region in India. One of those places, where still seems to reasonable forest areas.

http://www.conservationindia.org/article...tern-ghats
1 user Likes Shadow's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

Here is some observations concerning that video, where dhole pack was hunting that gaur calf, video is on this thread earlier. That is not a long description, but there is mentioned, that it was a pack of 18 dholes. First they were attempting to hunt elephant calf, but after a few attempts moved on and then what happened next is what can be seen in some videos.

http://www.conservationindia.org/gallery...f-bandipur

I found it interesting because here is clearly mentioned, that dholes tried to hunt elephant calf even though not successful.
1 user Likes Shadow's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****
( This post was last modified: 02-14-2019, 04:31 PM by Shadow )

This link is to dhole study from 2007, it is quite interesting to read and if not willing to read it all, just download pdf and use search tool to seek some specific information. Actually that study doesn´t open to browser, but pdf can be downloaded without any registrations etc. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ya_Pradesh
1 user Likes Shadow's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****
( This post was last modified: Yesterday, 10:56 PM by Shadow )

In this link is one observation about dhole and gaur interaction. In here gaurs seem to act more like one would expect, but still quite interesting to read how situation developed :) Some good photos also from there.

https://zootherabirding.blogspot.com/201...f-dog.html

Here another link and also interesting photo:

https://cinema.maalaimalar.com/News/Dist...forest.vpf
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Senior Member
****

This article was also interesting to read, nothing dramatic but one peak to dholes and what they do there :)

http://www.newindianexpress.com/lifestyl...15932.html
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
3 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB