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Canids (Canidae) & Hyaenids (Hyaenidae)
Dholes (Cuon alpinus)
Dholes (Cuon alpinus)
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Dholes (Cuon alpinus)
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 (01-30-2019, 06:44 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have been reading the book: Tiger! The Story of the Indian Tiger (published 1977) from Kailash Sankhala. Shadow, the observations of Dr Kailash Sankhala are quite interesting. Obviously the result of the panic caused to herbivores when big pack of dholes is hunting in particular area lead to temporary lack of prey in this area so tigers are sometimes also enforced to leave temporary the area because there is almost nothing to hunt. That doesnt mean that tiger afraid of dholes but obviosly as Sankhala said scarcity of prey could indirectly cause tiger to leave temporarily a particular area and to return only when the panic among the herbivores is gone and they return to previous grazing grounds. So, again Kipling was right in some way.  (02-07-2019, 08:38 PM)Wolverine Wrote:Well, Kipling as far as I know and as some information in your postings have showed, didn´t make up stories from nothing, but dicussed with people who had been in India and observed animals there. Of course his books aren´t documentaries as everyone understand, but still in many ways going side by side with reality having naturally some freedom to make a good and entertaining strory :)(01-30-2019, 06:44 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have been reading the book: Tiger! The Story of the Indian Tiger (published 1977) from Kailash Sankhala. So far I haven´t seen anything indicating, that tigers would be afraid of dholes. That would be odd if so in normal conditions. Then again while dholes are more cautious with tigers than with leopards, it has been interesting to see, that they aren´t in panic when meeting tigers. Not even then,when making room for tiger to pass them. Those some videos, where dholes circle tiger and keep that terrible noise are interesting to watch, it is after all tiger leaving the area there in some, not dholes always and they look like to follow up the tiger and maybe keeping those high-pitched voices until "danger is over"(?). It is interesting to look at that video with leopard on tree, there dhole voices are very different. Have to look more information about it what kind of voices dholes keep in different situations, then maybe some videos tell more than now. Actually have to look again some videos and listen more carefully what kind of voices they keep there. Btw Peter might have that book of Sankhala in english, if so maybe he could put here pictures with original text what comes to that part concerning dholes. That was interesting to read because Sankhala writes mostly about his own observations, not about something heard from someone else. What comes overall to dholes and to discussion about their reputation etc. there seems to be at least about ten different sources starting from about year 1800 telling about this wild dog, which is extremely efficient predator and spreading terror in prey animals. Kipling is not source of that reputation, just a sideline in story of dholes :) (02-07-2019, 08:37 PM)Wolverine Wrote:(02-07-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote: See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense. I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT HIM!!!! I was talking to those who believe everything they read, and you seriously believe in packs of over 100? If that's the case, then I can't say I take you seriously at all. Also, I read your post to Panther after he posted that information to me on the tiger extinction thread, and you just assumed his original name was Vegeta San, a guy who really couldn't be taken seriously, I've got news for you, you don't have the right to act like that when someone disagrees with you, in fact, I didn't see that post again, likely deleted, and I can't say I blame the person who deleted it. I don't know everything about animals, neither does anyone to be honest, so don't you act like I do, as a matter of fact, I'd really appreciate it if you would NEVER reply to my posts again so neither of us says anything we'll regret. Good day, and leave me alone.
@Shadow , from the video is clearly visible that leopard afraid of dholes and run away on the tree. If we assume (Sterndale 1884) that tiger also afraid of big packs of dholes (theoreticaly) he will not gain nothing if he openly display his fear and run away. Tiger unlike spotted cat can't climb trees so if he start running will only provoke attack. So in interest of tiger is to display he doesn't worry of dholes even if he worry. And basicaly unlike spotted cat lions and tigers have developed sense of "dignity" , they seldom run away openly and normally move away slowly if fill threatened for some reason. Again I dont insist that tiger afraid of dholes (while for sure solitary dholes and small packs afraid of tigers, solitary dhole is basicaly almost helpless against big cat) , actually we dont know what is going on in his brain. I think its early to make any final conclusions about their interractions, basically I agree with Rishi that we have to wait another 10-20 years to see what the modern filming tecnhology will tell us.
I think in the fiture we have to discuss this topic only with arrival of some new information, new sources etc (02-08-2019, 04:13 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @Shadow , from the video is clearly visible that leopard afraid of dholes and run away on the tree. If we assume (Sterndale 1884) that tiger also afraid of big packs of dholes (theoreticaly) he will not gain nothing if he openly display his fear and run away. Tiger unlike spotted cat can't climb trees so if he start running will only provoke attack. So in interest of tiger is to display he doesn't worry of dholes even if he worry. And basicaly unlike spotted cat lions and tigers have developed sense of "dignity" , they seldom run away openly and normally move away slowly if fill threatened for some reason. Again I dont insist that tiger afraid of dholes (while for sure solitary dholes and small packs afraid of tigers, solitary dhole is basicaly almost helpless against big cat) , actually we dont know what is going on in his brain. I think its early to make any final conclusions about their interractions, basically I agree with Rishi that we have to wait another 10-20 years to see what the modern filming tecnhology will tell us. Well one thing is wrong in your posting. Tigers can climb trees, quite easily. Coming down is then something not so smooth as it is for a leopard and of course moving on branches is more careful and clumsy. And I know, that you aren´t saying, that tigers would be afraid of dholes. I think then again, that if things escalate and there are some bites, even a tiger can feel fear. Any animal flee if situation is overwhelming and there opens up possibility to flee. If cornered, then of course fighting for life as long as possible. It is hard to know, what happens in the head of animals, but there is footage, where tiger flees gaurs in state, what can be called panic. I mean banging head to wooden wall first and then changing direction and running as fast as possible doesn´t look like to "controlled retreat" for me. IF there is situation, where feeling bites here and there and terrible noise all the time with movement everywhere, I have no trouble believing that tiger can be afraid and fleeing. In that way old stories are reasonable and nothing special or illogical, when thinking how animals are acting. Another thing is, if that has happened or will happen in future. Time will tell. I have said quite the same as Rishi all the time too, I think. Many things concerning about dholes and their reputation seem to have justification, but what comes to fierce fights with tigers, there we are in situation, which leaves room for speculation. Debating about that is kind of waste of time if something new doesn´t come up. (02-08-2019, 04:32 AM)Shadow Wrote:(02-08-2019, 04:13 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @Shadow , from the video is clearly visible that leopard afraid of dholes and run away on the tree. If we assume (Sterndale 1884) that tiger also afraid of big packs of dholes (theoreticaly) he will not gain nothing if he openly display his fear and run away. Tiger unlike spotted cat can't climb trees so if he start running will only provoke attack. So in interest of tiger is to display he doesn't worry of dholes even if he worry. And basicaly unlike spotted cat lions and tigers have developed sense of "dignity" , they seldom run away openly and normally move away slowly if fill threatened for some reason. Again I dont insist that tiger afraid of dholes (while for sure solitary dholes and small packs afraid of tigers, solitary dhole is basicaly almost helpless against big cat) , actually we dont know what is going on in his brain. I think its early to make any final conclusions about their interractions, basically I agree with Rishi that we have to wait another 10-20 years to see what the modern filming tecnhology will tell us. One thing, when tiger flees from elephants, rhinos or gaurs, they chase only for shorter time and it is relatively easy for a tiger to dodge them. Dhole would be only animal able to chase tiger with more agility and stamina. So if tiger ever would flee to a tree, it would most probably be only if confrontation with dholes goes to bad direction. This is speculation of course. But that would be a sight if some day it would happen :) (02-07-2019, 11:42 PM)Shadow Wrote: Well, Kipling as far as I know …. dicussed with people who had been in India. Actually Kipling himself was born and grew in India. He got his knowledge about the jungles mainly from the British naturalist and hunter Robert Sterndale. Since this theme is out of topic if you are interested it continue in Jungle Book thread: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-jun...8#pid69058 (02-08-2019, 03:47 PM)Wolverine Wrote:(02-07-2019, 11:42 PM)Shadow Wrote: Well, Kipling as far as I know …. dicussed with people who had been in India. Yes I knew, that he spent some time in India :) But since it was quite marginal time overall, I wrote as I did. 
KAILASH SANKHALA ON TIGERS AND DHOLES
a - Introduction In 1977, 'Tiger! - The Story of the Indian Tiger' was published. I bought it a few years later. A good one, I think. Sankhala was born in Jodhpur (Rajahstan), on the fringe of the desert. Rajahstan is derived from Registhan, which means 'land of sand'. About half of Rajahstan is part of the Thar desert. His father was a forest ranger. The area he worked in, the Aravali Hills, was famous for sloth bears and leopards. Many years later, he was appointed Director of the Jodhpur zoo. Living in the forest in primitive conditions for extended periods of time and frequent moves from one area to another have disadvantages, especially for children. According to Sankhala, children of foresters never learn to compete in life. Poverty (forest officers do not earn a lot of money) also has consequences. Sankhala's parents had four children, of which only one could go to college. Sankhala was the lucky one. At college, he joined an expedition to cross the Thar Desert in the hottest month (May) as a botanist and photographer. Although the expedition didn't result in a lot of credit at college, it put him in head of the queue for selection to the Forest Service. This was quite something, as appointments in those days were given to the 'chosen few'. This was in the days Maharajahs still had quite a bit of influence. After college, Sankhala joined the Indian Forest College at Dehra Dun: " ... I have never regretted my time in the Forest Service, with it's fine century-old tradition of conservation. This training, augmented at intervals by short courses on ecology and park administration both in India and the USA, made me a purist. The unlimited opportunities of studying nature ... I only got as a forester. And above all I was able to live with tigers in the wild for days and nights on end, often in full presence of each other's presence but probably even more often in ignorance of it ... " (pp. 15). His first posting (in April 1953) was in Bundi, a former princely State. Later, he took charge of Khaiwara, a small forest in the south-west of Udaipur. Four months later, he was in charge of a Bharatpur forest division. This posting in particular affected his outlook and career. Between 1965-1970, he was Director of the Delhi Zoo. In 1970, he was awarded the Jawarhalal Nehru Fellowship. This enabled him to increase his knowledge on Indian wildlife. For a period of two years, Sariska and Ranthambore (in Rajahstan) were his study areas. He also studied tigers in Kanha National Park in Madhya Pradesh in 1971. This was the park selected by George Schaller in 1964-1965: " ... I found that the information he had collected was mostly from one family of conditioned tigers, which had been provided with baits for more than one-and-a-half years. The group only included one male and was confined to a small area of 10-15 sq km. Vital aspects such as reproduction and the behaviour of a tigress and her infant cubs had not been studied in depth. Schaller's work was valuable in being the first ever to be fully recorded in the field, but it was insufficient to justify wider application. At that time the real facts about tigers' distribution, numbers and the conditions under which they were surviving in other parts of the country were not known ... " (pp. 18). The first part of 'Tiger! - The Story of the Indian Tiger' is based on what he saw in Bundi, Khaiwara, Udaipur, Sariska, Ranthambore and Kanha in the period 1953-1972. In the second part, the focus is on the relation between tigers and humans. One chapter in this part is about the famous white tigers of Rewa. If you want to know a bit more about white tigers, I recommend Sankhala's book:  *This image is copyright of its original author b - On tiger 'Jim' In the fifties and sixties of the previous century, killing tigresses and collecting their cubs was a flourishing business in India. The cubs fetched $ 1.000,00 a piece in the foreign market. Sankhala proposed to introduce a system of providing a certificate of origin for the export of tiger cubs during the fifth session of the Indian Board for Wildlife in 1965. After his proposal had been accepted, the trade in tiger cubs collapsed. In spite of that, tigresses with cubs were still shot or poisoned quite often. One day, the Delhi Zoo, headed by Kailash Sankhala in the period 1965-1970, got a cub from Kanha National Park. Although suffering from gastro-enteritis, the cub made it. Jim, as he was named by the local politician who got the cub from villagers, was adopted by the Sankhala family. When he was about two years of age, he was moved to the Delhi Zoo. Sankhala's first attempt to introduce 'Jim' to a tigress with a similar background from the Dehra Dun forests ('Rosy') failed. A fight erupted. Tigers raised by humans respond different than tigers raised by tigresses. They need more time to adapt to tiger society. Sankhala recorded lengths and weights of captive tigers in the Delhi Zoo. These records showed that white tigers often were longer, taller and heavier than others. A white male tiger at the Delhi Zoo ('Raja') was 100 cm. at the shoulder while standing. Male tiger 'Suraj', a normal-coloured tiger, was 90 cm. Compared to some of the tigers discussed in this thread, tiger 'Jim' was moderate in size. His standing height was 93 cm. at the shoulder and his total length (most probably measured 'over curves') was 282 cm. His weight was 426 pounds (192 kg.). The bond they had never was completely lost: " ... He and I do not meet as we used to do, though when I go to see him he will hold my hand in his mouth to remind me of the old days ... " (pp. 171). Here's a nice photograph of both:  *This image is copyright of its original author c - On dholes When studying tigers in Kanha National Park in 1971-1972, he noticed they were difficult to find when wild dogs were around. Sankhala thought the animosity created by wild dogs reduced the chances for leopards and tigers. In Kanha, he saw a cheetal doe wounded by a pack of 18 wild dogs entering a compound. In the evergreen forests of the Western Ghats, Sankhala saw a pack of 21 wild dogs chase a sambar fawn into a deep channel, where she was killed. In Sankhala's opinion, wild dogs do not fear other predators. At times, they will even chase a tiger from its kill or send it up a tree:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Some of us consider a lot of old stories about tigers and dholes as exaggerated interpretations of reports close to hearsay. There are no recent reports about tigers harrassed or wounded by dholes, they say. There are, however, reliable reports about dholes chased, killed and eaten by tigers. True. That, however, doesn't mean that all old stories about tigers and dholes are unreliable. It also doesn't mean that dholes can't be dangerous for cubs, youngsters and incapacitated individuals today: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/Tiger-cub-killed-by-wild-dogs-in-Chanda/articleshow/14512292.cms d - Tigers and muggers Sankhala saw a tiger crossing a river between Rajahstan and Madhya Pradesh. A mugger met the tiger halfway. Here's the rest of the story:  *This image is copyright of its original author e - Tigers and pythons In some time, I will discuss a few books that have reliable accounts of severe struggles between tigers and pythons. Here's two stories from Sankahla's book:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author f - Conclusion The natural world is quite something. Predators in particular as special to many. Not a few consider big cats as the culmination of evolution. Although an adult lion, tiger, jaguar or leopard is impressive no matter what, many forget that it takes time to get there undamaged. A lot of time. In the first months, cubs of solitary big cats often are on their own for many hours, even days. When discovered by other predators, they wouldn't stand a chance. This is without floods, thunder storms, heat waves, angry villagers and too many diseases to even start counting. When they survive the first year, they learn what it means to be a predator eating meat only. Most of the animals they hunt, can be dangerous. This is why many of them are disabled by mom when they start hunting. When they, after a year or so, survive hunting school and graduate, they are kicked out. The period between adolescence and adulthood is as dangerous as the first months, if not more so. Homeless and on the move all the time, they need to avoid mistakes of any kind. The reason is any mistake could be their last. Every hunt is concluded by a life and death struggle with an animal not seldom able to hurt or even kill a big cat. And they most definitely will given half a chance. Although some say that about half of all tiger cubs reach adulthood, others think that estimate is way too optimistic. Talking severe selection here. Adult wild big cats, first of all and foremost, are survivors. They didn't get there by attacking animals able to kill them at every opportunity, but by thinking and learning. Trial and error. Male lions need to learn how to interact the hard way from the start, but solitary big cats often are selective and wary. As careful as it gets. They just don't have another option, as an injury can result in starvation and death. Solitary cats need to be careful all the time all their life. Anyone who says a wild big cat is a 'coward', for this reason, is a total nitwit. When big cats reach adulthood and a territory, they graduated. With honour and then some. This means that every discussion on intelligence is a result of a total lack of understanding. And respect. Respect they perhaps deserve more than anyone. Adult tigers, on account of their size and power, do not fear wild dogs. But wild dogs are great hunters and they are truly wild. They can't be 'tamed' and are known for their determination and courage. Their nickname, mad dog, is a result of their courage and their behavior, which can be unpredictable at times. Every now and then, they do something that surprises all. In times of need, they have been known to chase even tigers. When a big cat runs, he will be attacked in the way they attack a deer. A single dog is unable to seriously injure a tiger, but a pack can hurt any tiger if they decide to go all out. A suicide mission, no? I've been in the famous zoo in the eastern part of Berlin on a cloudy and gloomy day. After seeing the big cats, we visited the wild dogs. Apart from us, there were no visitors. We were circling the enclosure, but didn't see anything. Then one of the dogs was right behind us. One yard at most. When we turned, they came from all directions. Small, they were, but they were fully alert and it wasn't a game. Did it have an effect? We had seen an Amur tigress with quite large cubs known for her temper. Her demonstration was impressive, but she was behind bars wasn't she. A good show, it was. After the dogs had talked to us, however, my companions said it was time to go. They were intimidated. By animals known to avoid humans anywhere. Would these mad dogs consider a suicide attack in some conditions? No question, I concluded. But that's just an opinion. (02-09-2019, 05:52 AM)smedz Wrote:(02-09-2019, 04:44 AM)peter Wrote: KAILASH SANKHALA ON TIGERS AND DHOLESI'll admit, this guy is a heck of a lot more reliable than then the other people who reported encounters. But there is something a bit odd about it though, he did say a tiger is more than a match for the wild dogs, and he said the tigers left the area because the Dholes scared all the prey away, but if a tiger is more than a match for wild dogs, then why wouldn't it try to eliminate the competition? Whenever larger predators see smaller ones in their territories, they kill them. For example, a lion will kill wild dogs when it gets the chance, that's just their mindset, so I doubt a tiger would just let Dholes live in it's hunting grounds after they scare all the game away, I honestly think the tiger would be thinking, "Okay, you pests have come between me and my prey for the very last time!!". I know he believes in the old tales, but it's important to note that he never saw Dholes do that, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He clearly got that opinion from the stories, and quite frankly, I really don't trust the shakari's who told people like Anderson about encounters they claimed to see. Allow me to explain, you see, hunters blamed the Dholes for decimating entire populations of game, and so a bounty was placed on their heads. Of course, this would get some backlash, however, it's important to know that people thought Dholes to be ruthless and bloodthirsty. The reason was obviously their hunting technique, but it's not like everybody saw Dholes hunt. But everyone could read stories made by them. They knew people like Connell were writers, and if those guys wrote their stories, they could get those stories across. Those stories could have convinced many people to think Dholes were ruthless and bloodthirsty, and Kipling's novel didn't help either, and if the stories got people to think that way, then it could have made the people think Dholes deserved to be exterminated, and that's exactly what they would have wanted. at least until they became protected. Hunters actually do something similar today, as on hunting websites, you will read about them talking about how bad coyotes are, and some people actually believe them, but many people don't believe them since we have a lot of information on coyotes, but like you said once, people to this day still don't know much about Dholes, so some people naturally could have believed the stories. CANIDS My advice is to distinguish between hyenas, African wild dogs, wolves, coyotes, jackals, dholes, dogs, street dogs and feral dogs. All of them will attack domesticated animals (including pets) and humans in some conditions. Dholes do not. I've seen all of them them in zoos and facilities, studied their behavior, talked to people who knew them in captivity and talked to those who had seen their wild relatives. Dholes are different from all others. More wild at heart, more dangerous, more capable and more clever. They have the eye. SANKHALA AND ANDERSON Sankhala didn't see wild dogs harassing tigers. Some of his collegues did. They were Forest Rangers and Forest Officers. They didn't write books, but some of them informed him about their experiences. Reliable, that is. Kenneth Anderson didn't say he heard about this or that. He actually saw a tigress chased by dogs and he saw her kill one when she was attacked. He actually saw her run and he also saw the main pack following shortly after. In total, almost thirty dogs were involved. The people who told him about the fight that followed later were not hired by glossies. They had known Anderson for a long time. They trusted each other. In the wild, you have to. Anderson also saw wild dogs harrass, injure and kill other animals. Animals able to kill humans, like sloth bears, wild boars, leopards and hyenas. Kenneth Anderson wasn't the only one who saw interactions between dholes and tigers. Read a few books written by those who worked in old India in the 19th century. I'm not saying every story is reliable, but some people saw things others did not. Doesn't mean they didn't happen. HUNTERS What you saw in the USA is not disputed. Hunters profit from exaggerated stories about predators with a terrible lust to kill. I know. I also know they will eliminate competitors given half a chance. Finally, I know that many spectacular stories grow in size every time they are retold. All of that, however, doesn't mean that these stories were a result of hearsay or exaggeration. If you dismiss anything out of the ordinary as crap all the time, you're no different from those accepting everything they read on the internet. I know it isn't easy to find your way, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a try. Here's a few examples of stories considered as myths by many. STORIES ON THE SIZE OF INDIAN, NEPAL AND RUSSIAN TIGERS A few decades ago, biologists just about dismissed every story on exceptional tigers. This is why they carried 500-pound scales when they started in India. When they admitted they could have been a bit too harsh, 600-pound scales were added. In Nepal, they still came up short in at least two cases. In Russia, biologists were as sceptical as in India, if not more so. According to some, everything written on the alleged size of Amur tigers was total crap. They only trusted what they had weighed and measured themselves. The method used to measure tigers was unsound, but there was no question that Amur tigers were way smaller than the tigers featuring in all these old stories. Their table, however, included problem tigers close to starvation and young adults. Furthermore, they forgot that Amur tigers had walked the edge for nearly half a century. They also ignored the impact of habitat destruction and prey depletion. New dimensions in scepticism, if not outright arrogance. In Russia, tigers now are protected. Protection is taken serious. There are anti-poaching teams and they're good. Penalties for poachers are more severe. Tigers responded. According to Olga Krasnykh, there could be more Amur tigers than biologists say. Much more. Conditions are improving all the time. China will add a new large reserve soon. Biologists had to, ehh, adapt a few statements on tigers and bears in the Russian Far East recently. My guess is they have to adapt a few statements on size as well. Soon, I think. A STORY ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH FROM RUSSIA Wolverine posted a story about a male tiger and the big wild boar he killed. This thread. Find it. It's not based on hearsay, but facts. In Russia, a male Amur tiger in his prime was found dead close to a road. They followed the trail he had left in the snow. About ten km. away from the road, they found a dead wild boar. Big tusks, he had. What happened? The autopsy said the tiger had been very close to death before he attacked the wild boar. The reason was cancer. It was everywhere. The cancer in particular had affected his spine and hind limbs, meaning he had been barely able to walk, let alone move properly before he attacked the wild boar. So why did he attack? The reason is hunger. As he was unable to move his hindlegs, the attack failed. The wild boar turned round and attacked himself. Mistake. Although he crushed the pelvis area, the tiger killed him. Vets said the tiger had more or less passed the gates of life before he attacked. An ex-tiger, he was. But he attacked the wild boar and killed him. First time a wild boar was killed by a dead tiger. After he died a second time (the boar destroyed the pelvis area of the tiger before he was killed), the tiger, using his front limbs only, dragged himself to a road. In the snow. Downhill. Ten km. using his arms only. Yes, ten. Close to the road, he died a third time. REALITY AND ATTITUDE What I'm saying is life often is surprising and complicated. The best way to deal with reality is to stay away from fixed opinions, firm statements, arrogance, fundamentalism and all the rest of it. The only way to learn is to open up and get rid of crap. Not easy, but there are rewards. Good luck. (02-09-2019, 07:14 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Shadow, have you seen this amazing video from last year?: Yes I have seen it, quite interesting to watch now again, because now I was especially listening. That silence there is interesting, no "whistling or high-pitched noises" like when they harass tiger. Also when comparing to that leopard video where noises were also quite different. Have to find and read again some studies and what there is told about dholes and what kind of noises in different situations. Also when you look at this video, which I posted earlier. That bull elephant is obviously very unhappy there, see tail and how stiff it is, ears spread to sides, not swinging there like usually, making those trumpet noices and eyes clearly as open as they can be there while running here and there. Same time dholes are silent and nonchalant dodging only when necessary. It is told in description, that dholes then killed a deer stag after this situation. These are interesting situations to watch and learn, elephants obviously don´t like to see dholes nearby, maybe there was something in dhole presence which made elephant to "feel", that they were after something and nervous if that would be some elephant calf. I wouldn´t be surprised if elephants could sense from what they see and hear, that are dholes just passing by, resting or after meal.
Here is another video from interaction between elephant and dholes. Again dholes keep no noise! Just dodging and moving around in silence, while elephant is nervous/upset, whatever word anyone wants to use.
Concernig pack sizes, I did email a biologist by the name of Dr. Kamler, according to him, wild dogs would rather be in large packs than small ones so they can protect their hunting grounds from other large packs. Hope that helps.
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