There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 4 Vote(s) - 4.75 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******


*This image is copyright of its original author
7 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

United States tigerluver Offline
Feline Expert
*****
Moderators

@Betty, attached is the paper you requested!

Attached Files
.pdf   meachen-samuels2009.pdf (Size: 271.74 KB / Downloads: 13)
1 user Likes tigerluver's post
Reply

Australia Richardrli Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
***

I'm interested in the different feeding habits of the Pantherine cats. We know that tigers almost always consume the rear hindquarters of their prey and jaguars eat the chest and neck of their prey but what about for leopards and lions? What are their preferences? The snow leopard seems similar to the jaguar in that it predominantly eat the chest region.
Reply

Luipaard Offline
Leopard enthusiast
( This post was last modified: 12-02-2021, 10:01 PM by Luipaard )

I created a graph demonstrating the overlap in skull length and width between the largest male leopards and small (adult) lionesses. All the leopard skulls originated from Iran and Central Africa.


*This image is copyright of its original author

Sources of leopard skull data: https://imgur.com/a/aKDEzY8
Sources of lion skull data: https://imgur.com/a/t8POFJa
1 user Likes Luipaard's post
Reply

Czech Republic Charger01 Offline
Animal admirer & Vegan
( This post was last modified: 12-10-2021, 09:19 AM by Charger01 )

I was able to ask a few questions to a very knowledgeable researcher about modern and extinct felids. This is what he told me - 

I've taken the time to take a look at my database provided by multiple zoological collections and this is what I found: 

1. Scapula

In case of the scapula, also known as the shoulder bone, my database leans towards african lions to have larger scapula's than other Panthera cats but the difference is very limited and can (will) come down to the individuals in question. 


2. Forelimb bones and musculature

The ranking as per the forelimb bones: 
1. Panthera onca 
2. Panthera spelaea 
3. Neofelis 
4. Panthera tigris 
5. Panthera leo 

The difference between Panthera onca and the cave lion was limited, and the former showed slightly more developed muscle attachment. The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount. 


3. Ribcage width

Panthera onca had the widest ribcage followed by Panthera spelaea. Among the other three, tigers had the widest ribcages in-flesh but the difference was very small when comparing the skeletons themselves. 


4. Hindlimb bones and musculature

The difference between hindlimb robusticity was barely noticeable between the 5 species. 


Bengal tigers showed slightly bulkier builds than siberian tigers but they did not have more robust bones.

About the sample sizes, I am not allowed to share the exact numbers but I can tell you that all of them combined into one would normally result into over 60 specimens.
3 users Like Charger01's post
Reply

LandSeaLion Offline
Banned

(12-10-2021, 09:12 AM)Khan85 Wrote: 1. Scapula

In case of the scapula, also known as the shoulder bone, my database leans towards african lions to have larger scapula's than other Panthera cats but the difference is very limited and can (will) come down to the individuals in question. 


2. Forelimb bones and musculature

The ranking as per the forelimb bones: 
1. Panthera onca 
2. Panthera spelaea 
3. Neofelis 
4. Panthera tigris 
5. Panthera leo 

The difference between Panthera onca and the cave lion was limited, and the former showed slightly more developed muscle attachment. The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount. 
I’m not surprised by jaguars topping the list. It is interesting that cave lions appear to have been quite physically similar.

Can you please elaborate on this bit a little more? Do you mean limited difference in bone structure, but a more significant difference in musculature?

Quote:The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount


These observations gel with my intuition though. It has always seemed to me that (modern) lions have more robust neck and shoulders, but tigers have bulkier forelimbs.
Reply

Czech Republic Charger01 Offline
Animal admirer & Vegan
( This post was last modified: 12-10-2021, 08:23 PM by Charger01 )

(12-10-2021, 04:04 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(12-10-2021, 09:12 AM)Khan85 Wrote: 1. Scapula

In case of the scapula, also known as the shoulder bone, my database leans towards african lions to have larger scapula's than other Panthera cats but the difference is very limited and can (will) come down to the individuals in question. 


2. Forelimb bones and musculature

The ranking as per the forelimb bones: 
1. Panthera onca 
2. Panthera spelaea 
3. Neofelis 
4. Panthera tigris 
5. Panthera leo 

The difference between Panthera onca and the cave lion was limited, and the former showed slightly more developed muscle attachment. The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount. 
I’m not surprised by jaguars topping the list. It is interesting that cave lions appear to have been quite physically similar.

Can you please elaborate on this bit a little more? Do you mean limited difference in bone structure, but a more significant difference in musculature?

Quote:The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount


These observations gel with my intuition though. It has always seemed to me that (modern) lions have more robust neck and shoulders, but tigers have bulkier forelimbs.

Yes, cave lions were close behind jaguars. Important thing here is that the sample of cave lions were females only, and males might even surpass the jaguars. 

Quote:Can you please elaborate on this bit a little more? Do you mean limited difference in bone structure, but a more significant difference in musculature?

Exactly, difference in bones was limited but significant in musculature. 

From some data that I have seen regarding lion and tiger neck circumference, it appears tigers do have bigger necks (avg and max).
1 user Likes Charger01's post
Reply

LandSeaLion Offline
Banned

(12-10-2021, 06:35 PM)Khan85 Wrote:
(12-10-2021, 04:04 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(12-10-2021, 09:12 AM)Khan85 Wrote: 1. Scapula

In case of the scapula, also known as the shoulder bone, my database leans towards african lions to have larger scapula's than other Panthera cats but the difference is very limited and can (will) come down to the individuals in question. 


2. Forelimb bones and musculature

The ranking as per the forelimb bones: 
1. Panthera onca 
2. Panthera spelaea 
3. Neofelis 
4. Panthera tigris 
5. Panthera leo 

The difference between Panthera onca and the cave lion was limited, and the former showed slightly more developed muscle attachment. The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount. 
I’m not surprised by jaguars topping the list. It is interesting that cave lions appear to have been quite physically similar.

Can you please elaborate on this bit a little more? Do you mean limited difference in bone structure, but a more significant difference in musculature?

Quote:The difference in between Panthera tigris and Panthera leo was very little, but the former had muscle attachments that exceeded the latter by a sizeable amount


These observations gel with my intuition though. It has always seemed to me that (modern) lions have more robust neck and shoulders, but tigers have bulkier forelimbs.

Yes, cave lions were close behind jaguars. Important thing here is that the sample of cave lions were females only, and males might even surpass the jaguars. 

Quote:Can you please elaborate on this bit a little more? Do you mean limited difference in bone structure, but a more significant difference in musculature?

Exactly, difference in bones was limited but significant in musculature. 

From some data that I have seen regarding lion and tiger neck circumference, it appears tigers do have bigger necks (avg and max).

Oh that’s interesting. My intuition about the necks was just based on visual rather than scientific evidence (I like to draw big cats), and references like Jun’s anatomy. There’d certainly be a lot of individual variation though.
1 user Likes LandSeaLion's post
Reply

India Hello Offline
Senior Member
****
( This post was last modified: 12-11-2021, 09:03 PM by Hello )

Lions have proportionately larger chests, shoulders, heads, necks and taller at shoulders. While tigers have forearms, biceps, triceps, hindquarters, abdominals and longer.

A lion of average build with large and pronounced shoulders in relation to his body.

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.flickr.com/photos/avatar1/28046642438/
2 users Like Hello's post
Reply

United Kingdom Sully Offline
Ecology & Rewilding
*****

From:
Genome-wide signatures of complex introgression and adaptive evolution in the big cats



*This image is copyright of its original author

Fig. 1 Evolutionary history of the great cats.

(A) Species tree of the genus Panthera estimated from genome-wide data. All five extant species are represented as follows: lion (Panthera leo), leopard (P. pardus), jaguar (Panthera onca), snow leopard (Panthera uncia), and tiger (Panthera tigris). Numbers above branches indicate the estimated age [in million years ago (Ma)] of the adjacent node, averaged across all genomic windows (100-kb window size, 100-kb steps) that conform to the species tree (95% highest posterior density interval below the respective branch). Colored rectangles on terminal branches indicate phenotypic categories (defined below the tree; see Fig. 3B for more details) affected by species-specific episodes of positive selection. (B) PSMC plot depicting the demographic history of the five Panthera species inferred from genomic data. © Genealogical discordance across the genome of Panthera cats, demonstrated by a sliding window analysis (500-kb window size, 100-kb steps) of a full-genome alignment mapped to domestic cat chromosomes (gray lines at the bottom). The y axis indicates the percentage of overlapping windows within a given interval that conform to (blue) or reject (red) the species tree. Photo credits: D. Kantek (jaguar); C. Sperka (others).
2 users Like Sully's post
Reply

United States Styx38 Offline
Banned
( This post was last modified: 12-17-2021, 12:20 PM by Styx38 )

Leopard vs. Tiger range in Primorsky Krai.


Leopard range in the past.


*This image is copyright of its original author

source: Hebblewhite, Mark, et al. "Predicting potential habitat and population size for reintroduction of the Far Eastern leopards in the Russian Far East." Biological Conservation 144.10 (2011): 2403-2413



Leopard range as of present


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Feng, Limin, et al. "Collaboration brings hope for the last Amur leopards." Cat News 65 (2017): 20.



Tiger range in the 1990s. The area in red is Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik.


*This image is copyright of its original author

source: Miquelle, Dale G., et al. "Hierarchical spatial analysis of Amur tiger relationships to habitat and prey." Riding the Tiger: tiger conservation in human-dominated landscapes. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK (1999): 71-99.



Tiger range as of present.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: https://russia.wcs.org/en-us/Wildlife/Am...ology.aspx



As can be seen, Leopards live mainly in Southwest Primorsky Krai, while Tigers are found throughout the region.

"Collect the best data for use in conservation plans for Amur tigers and Far Eastern leopards. This includes conducting scientific field research on Amur tigers, both in the central part of their range in SABZ and at the southern edge of tiger habitat in Southwest Primorsky Krai, and conducting research on Far Eastern leopards in Southwest Primorsky Krai."

source: https://conservewildcats.org/wp-content/...rt2010.pdf


For example, Leopards do not live in Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik.


'The Amur leopard is also not present in Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik, and so the estimate of carrying capacity using data from Miquelle et al. (1999) may more closely approximate the actual carrying capacity in the EWM.'

source: Zhang, Changzhi, Minghai Zhang, and Philip Stott. "Does prey density limit Amur tiger Panthera tigris altaica recovery in northeastern China?." Wildlife Biology 19.4 (2013): 452-461.



Tigers live with other predators.



*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Miquelle, DALE G., et al. "Food habits of Amur tigers in Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik and the Russian Far East, and implications for conservation." Journal of Wildlife Research 1.2 (1996): 138-147.



Here is the distribution of Tiger prey.



*This image is copyright of its original author




^ As can be noted, Sikhote-Alin Zapovednik is considered the southernmost extent range of Manchurian Moose, while the place is considered the northernmost extent of Sika Deer. This is why Sika Deer are main prey for both Tigers and Leopards in Southwest Primorsky Krai., while Moose make up a low amount of Tiger prey in Sikhote-Alin.


source: Miquelle, Dale G., et al. "Hierarchical spatial analysis of Amur tiger relationships to habitat and prey." Riding the Tiger: tiger conservation in human-dominated landscapes. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK (1999): 71-99.




As we can see, Manchurian Moose are in areas where Leopards are not present.

This means that we will never get to see Leopard-Moose interaction since they will never meet.


@Luipaard It is interesting to note that Leopards are isolated and live far from Manchurian Moose, so there is no predation as of recent.

A lot of uninformed people theorized that either the Moose was too big for the Leopard, or the Leopard was going for smaller prey in Tiger habitat.

Here are some examples.

https://www.quora.com/Do-Amur-leopards-prey-on-moose

https://carnivora.net/cougar-v-leopard-t...ml#p121520
2 users Like Styx38's post
Reply

United States Styx38 Offline
Banned

@Luipaard

While I thought fans made poor comments, I also found out that even researchers can make odd comments.


For example, this researcher made an assumption that a Leopard would not go after large Manchurian Wapiti/Elk or Red Deer because they did not appear in the Leopard's diet in any of the studies shown.



*This image is copyright of its original author




Of course, when it comes to Tigers not going for Elk, only then does this guy acknowledge the relatively low abundance of Elk in these areas.


 
*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Gardener, Billy Jai. Habitat Modelling of the Amur Leopard and Siberian Tiger for Future Reintroduction: Using Conservation Priority Setting, Ecological Corridors and Carrying Capacities. Diss. Bangor University (United Kingdom), 2020.



Here is one of the studies that he cited for Tiger and Leopard diet in Northeastern China.

As can be seen Red Deer/Wapiti/Elk cannot be seen occurring in either predator's diet.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Yang, Haitao, et al. "Seasonal food habits and prey selection of Amur tigers and Amur leopards in Northeast China." Scientific reports 8.1 (2018): 1-9.


The reason why is that the Wapiti/Red Deer is either locally extinct or at a very low abundance in these areas.

If you get confused between Wapiti, Elk or Red Deer then just remember that these are different names for the species known as Cervus elaphus xanthopygus


Red Deer is locally extinct in Southwest Primorsky Krai since the 1990s.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Matiukhina, Dina. "Resource partitioning and density drivers of two endangered large felids: Amur tiger (Panthera tigris altaica) and Amur leopard (Panthera pardus orientalis) in the Russian Far East." (2020).



Red Deer is also absent in Hunchun National Nature Reserve, China.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Dou, Hailong, et al. "Prey selection of Amur tigers in relation to the spatiotemporal overlap with prey across the Sino–Russian border." Wildlife Biology 2019.1 (2019): 1-11.


So, as we can see Leopards will not go for the Elk because the animal is either extirpated or extinct in their current range.
3 users Like Styx38's post
Reply

United States Styx38 Offline
Banned

The Leopard is not the only Felid to hoist a kill up a tree.



Lynx

Here are some Roe Deer carcasses that were cached by an Eurasian Lynx in a tree.





*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author



Explanation:

*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author





*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author



source: Červený, Jaroslav, and Henryk Okarma. "Caching prey in trees by Eurasian lynx." Acta Theriologica 47.4 (2002): 505-508.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...asian_lynx



Sunda Clouded Leopard

Here is a case of a Clouded Leopard carrying a Bearded Pig up to the first storey of an observation tower.


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Mohamed, A. Z. L. A. N., H. I. R. O. M. I. T. S. U. Samejima, and A. N. D. R. E. A. S. Wilting. "Records of five Bornean cat species from Deramakot Forest Reserve in Sabah, Malaysia." Cat news 51 (2009): 12-15.



Caracal

Here is a case of a Caracal caching a kill in a tree.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: The Mammals of the Southern African Sub-region By J. D. SkinnerChristian T. Chimimba · 2005




Geoffroy's Cat

Geoffroy's Cat have been observed to hoist their kills up trees, with some successful attempts at carrying up Hare Carcasses, and a failed attempt at carrying up a Seriema Bird up the tree.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Wild Cats of the World By Luke Hunter · 2015


Here is a detailed description of the Geoffroy Cat failing to hoist a Seriema kill up a tree.


*This image is copyright of its original author


source: Yanosky, A. A., & Mercolli, C. (1994). Notes on the Ecology of Felis geoffroyi in Northeastern Argentina. The American Midland Naturalist, 132(1), 202–204. https://doi.org/10.2307/2426215


While some Felids have been documented to cache their kills in trees, the Leopard may still have the best feat since they are documented to hoist animals up to at least 1.4x their size, or 100+ kg carcasses.
4 users Like Styx38's post
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******

Tank and Binta, both are the same age and abandoned as cubs.




4 users Like Pckts's post
Reply

United Kingdom Sully Offline
Ecology & Rewilding
*****

Homotherium vs smilodon by @paleosculpts on twitter


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
3 users Like Sully's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
23 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB