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Captive Lion and Tiger weights
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 (12-25-2019, 01:33 PM)Hello Wrote: Nice photo of Wallace, his eyes and gaze are kind of captivating. When looking at time of this "contest" it´s good to know that Zambar was 13-14 years old, died soon after that and Wallace was approximately 9,5 years old. Maybe it has been closer call, when both in their prime. Of course no big deal, sometimes lion is bigger, sometimes tiger, that´s how it always has been. For me it has started to look like, that in captivity it´s even closer call than I have thought before. I used to think, that tigers would have clear edge of 20-30 kg, but not anymore (my personal thoughts).
Zambar 400 lbs and Dad Gamin around 602 lbs without being obese.Maybe the largest non obese Siberian in Europe.Like Aslan he is also fit
I saw at some point texts concerning tiger Gamin who (passed away already) lived in Marwell Wildlife zoo. He was said to have been at some point approximately 600 lbs or 273 kg. As usually, when seeing such weights, I wrote to the zoo and asked about him.
Their answer was: "our carnivores’ team have advised me the following: We don’t have any carnivore staff that worked with Gamin, so we can only go by our limited records. We had 2 weights for him, 2011 – 200kg and 2012 – 217kg. In the wild Amur tigers average between 150-200kg so this would have been around the expected weight. If 273kg is correct he was probably considerably overweight. Our current male, Bagai, is 158kg and in the prime of his life. He is in very good condition and looks what like what you would expect of an Amur tiger." I asked also about tiger Kubwa, who has been said to have been 950 lbs. Reply was, that he has been that heavy. But owner said also, that overweight tiger. I have seen him on video and he looks like similar kind of tiger as Jaipur was. I attach here screenshot from Marwell Wildlife. Ps. @Hello , I just noticed that you had Gamin in the latest posting  I didn´t notice that until now, what a coincidence, I saw Gamin mentioned in a different site.
(01-06-2020, 06:28 PM)Shadow Wrote: I saw at some point texts concerning tiger Gamin who (passed away already) lived in Marwell Wildlife zoo. He was said to have been at some point approximately 600 lbs or 273 kg. As usually, when seeing such weights, I wrote to the zoo and asked about him. Ok i see, thanks for the nice info  (01-06-2020, 06:28 PM)Shadow Wrote: I saw at some point texts concerning tiger Gamin who (passed away already) lived in Marwell Wildlife zoo. He was said to have been at some point approximately 600 lbs or 273 kg. As usually, when seeing such weights, I wrote to the zoo and asked about him. Interestingly, even then those weights were from 2011 and 2012, when this tiger was somewhat old. The figure of 273 kg came from the poster Craig Kennion aka "Eagleraptor" which worked with those animals, and the weight was taken before or at 2008 and the pictures that he provided shows a very large specimen. I don't think that c.270 kg is out of question of a captive tiger, sadly that they do not have more information of the weights of they specimens. (01-06-2020, 09:12 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(01-06-2020, 06:28 PM)Shadow Wrote: I saw at some point texts concerning tiger Gamin who (passed away already) lived in Marwell Wildlife zoo. He was said to have been at some point approximately 600 lbs or 273 kg. As usually, when seeing such weights, I wrote to the zoo and asked about him. I think too, that 270 kg is possible. But after I started to check many old claims, I´ve got the feeling that in many cases they come from maybe one source and no double checking. That tends to leave room for errors in many cases. I guess, that a few years ago discussions were often so heated up, that when something "good" was found, people didn´t even want to check too much or didn´t quite know how or didn´t dare to do that. I can admit, that I don´t give too much value for many old postings in different places. It´s obvious that a few years ago heated debates between people who liked tigers and lions caused also a lot of misinformation spreading, many times proof has been vague or poorly checked. That´s why I nowadays always track down lions and tigers, which are claimed to have been or be exceptionally big, for me that is from 250 kg and upwards. What comes to private owners, I mostly ignore them. They all seem to have 700-900 lbs tigers and lions (and always if true, obese) :) Same time from real zoos finding even a 600 lbs big cat, which someone would really confirm feels very difficult. I have been asking about Yeltsin now from the zoos it lived, he died last spring. I´ve seen an article mentioning, that he was 270 kg. Interesting part is, that at that time he was being transferred from Swiss zoo to Germany and he was 2,5 years old. It will be very interesting if/when getting replies, that was that 270 kg maybe a typo or what. If true, he should have been later 300 kg. But I haven´t seen that weight so far mentioned anywhere else than in that one article, so it could have been a typo too. On the other hand he was looking big and fit in photos. Very interesting tiger, I think. (01-06-2020, 09:33 PM)Shadow Wrote: I think too, that 270 is possible. But after I started to check many old claims I´ve got the feeling that in many cases they come from maybe one source and no double checking. That tends to leave room for errors in many cases. I guess, that a few years ago discussions were often so heated up, that when something "good" was found, people didn´t even want to check too much or didn´t quite know how or dare to do that. You are right, in the old days of the AVA forum, there was constant wars and the missinformation was part of the day. Very few posters provided reliable data and even that was missused by both sides of the debaters, you can still see this is forums like Carnivora or other new forums powered by Tapatalk, that are ruled by posters like Catlion/Boldchamp/Starfox which are among the worst and most biased posters that I have ever saw. At the end, it was until the creation of Wildfact forum that factual information could be shared and the results have been amazing! Amomg the few posters that I could know, that no longer participate in forums (as far I know) are "Ppardus" and "Eagleraptor", this last one did presented his true identity as Craig Kennion and he worked with captive Amur tigers. However, after 2009 (as far I remember), he no longer participated in the AVA forum (probably for all the constant crap) and we lost contact. Now it seems that all the data from him was lost in the zoo and that is really sad, as he was a good poster and provided good information about captive Amur and Bengal tigers. From his statements, he said that from 38 captive Amur tigers that he saw 16 were males and only 3 were about 600 lb and only one almoust 700 lb, most of the males weighed between 450 - 550 lbs. He mentioned that two of the three heaviest males weighed 602 and 611 lb (273 and 277 kg) respectivelly and the lightest one was "Gamin". I do not normally like to use captive specimens weights as, like you say, many are estimations and some of them unreliable. Just a few weights are reliable and I have saw many new weights in this topic, but I no longer made a follow up of those figures, maybe I will do it latter. (01-06-2020, 10:28 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:Yes, some people see 300 kg lions everywhere. I see Aslan as the biggest fit captive lion which is reliable. There are some possible contenders, but not enough information yet. It's interesting to discuss with zookeepers about big cats, they are usually helpful. With bear Peter the Great I had to wait 1-2 months before I got figures, but finally it happened(01-06-2020, 09:33 PM)Shadow Wrote: I think too, that 270 is possible. But after I started to check many old claims I´ve got the feeling that in many cases they come from maybe one source and no double checking. That tends to leave room for errors in many cases. I guess, that a few years ago discussions were often so heated up, that when something "good" was found, people didn´t even want to check too much or didn´t quite know how or dare to do that.
I got reply concerning tiger Yeltsin, told to have been 270 kg in one article. I had received today message concerning him and in that was told (by zoo personnel), that he really was that heavy when he was transferred from Swiss zoo to Germany. I´ll try to get some clarifications and put more information tomorrow. Photos of him are easy to find.
This tiger:
If page opens in German language, use google to translate it to Englisn: https://zoo-bs.de/tiger-jelzin-verstorben/?lang=en Here he is when transferred: http://www.heino-krannich.de/der-tiger-jelzin/?fbclid=IwAR1cCQEEsJXRQBMwdZq0ZqaJomifyRTQVTaruef8CypJFm8r47AwrtAlv_A  *This image is copyright of its original author
(01-07-2020, 11:55 PM)Shadow Wrote: I got reply concerning tiger Yeltsin, told to have been 270 kg in one article. I had received today message concerning him and in that was told (by zoo personnel), that he really was that heavy when he was transferred from Swiss zoo to Germany. I´ll try to get some clarifications and put more information tomorrow. Photos of him are easy to find. I got another reply from zoo concerning Yeltsin (from same zoo). Now saying that not 270 kg but closer to 200 kg. I replied and asked if they could tell me how I could get two so different kind of replies. This later reply came from one director of the zoo, so hopefully I get soon accurate information and to know if Yeltsin was really weighed or not.
Now I got clearance concerning tiger Yeltsin, many times written Jelzin too. He wasn´t weighed after all. I did send that article claiming, that he was 270 kg in my email and this is now final answer from Walter zoo:
"Sorry this went two ways..;-) To be honest: nobody knows the exact weight, so its just an estimate from both sides. He was quite a big tiger for sure- the biggest we had in Gossau, but I still think that 270kg is overestimated when I look at the pictures. For sure you can quote this. All the best Leandra Leandra Pörtner Kuratorin / Curator
@Pantherinae Above is what I found out about Yeltsin. And in this one I was kind of lucky because I contacted Walter zoo in two ways at the same time because I wasn´t sure how I could get reply faster. And then I got two replies with big contradiction, one reply was, that he was 270 kg and I assumed, that he had been weighed (I forgot to ask it specifically) and another reply told, that 270 kg sounds exaggeration and closer to 200 kg is more realistic.
That´s why I then asked again, that how come I can get from same place two so different replies and then I got explanation from curator of that zoo, which is above. A good reminder about it, that when asking it´s good to make clear questions so, that answers are then also clear and tell how it is. When knowing how young Yeltsin was when transferred that 270 kg felt odd, but now knowing that is was just an estimation from someone it´s more understandable. In that one photo (standing on hind legs) he looks big, but in others which I´ve seen he isn´t looking that impressive... as usual in photos perspective can have some role. @GuateGojira when you are online, see this information, it took some time, but now there it is. |
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