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Birmingham Pride of lions

Gijima Offline
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Honestly the Ross Males should just recruit him into the coalition at this point. They're not getting any younger... let BYM do some patrolling for them, while they take it easy. Wink 

In all seriousness though, the 2016 litter of males are all a bit of mystery. All are over 5 years old and none are yet territorial or dominant over any pride (not even the Tintswalo Males in my opinion... they're still tagging along with their natal pride). 

A very interesting group.. let's hope a few of them become dominant males soon.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-23-2021, 02:00 AM by Tr1x24 )

(07-23-2021, 12:37 AM)Gijima Wrote: Honestly the Ross Males should just recruit him into the coalition at this point. They're not getting any younger... let BYM do some patrolling for them, while they take it easy. Wink 

In all seriousness though, the 2016 litter of males are all a bit of mystery. All are over 5 years old and none are yet territorial or dominant over any pride (not even the Tintswalo Males in my opinion... they're still tagging along with their natal pride). 

A very interesting group.. let's hope a few of them become dominant males soon.

Nothing unusuall here, most males/coalitions become dominant around 4.5 - 5.5 (depends of many factors) , there is exceptions who do that before but that doesnt occure that often or they got lucky with free area. 

Nkuhuma just turned 5,Styx,Torchwood and BYM are not yet 5 (BYM is born in Oct or Nov 2016, cant remember exactly, Styx and Torchwood also believed to be born in very late 2016). 

Tintswalos are 2017 generation, except Nharu male, they definitely behave as dominant/territorial males, but their situation with Mbiri pride is unclear.
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Poland Potato Offline
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A bit of a tug of war between a cub and the blonder Ross male over the stomach lining of a Buffalo. The Ross male eventually won…


*This image is copyright of its original author
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Mohawk4 Offline
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2:55:00

YBM with Ross males




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Tr1x24 Offline
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(07-25-2021, 03:04 PM)Mohawk4 Wrote: 2:55:00

YBM with Ross males

Actually unbelievable, even more so that there are cubs around..

This is 2nd carcass they feed together in few days.
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Duco Ndona Offline
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We shall see how it goes as dry season gets worse and tensions rise.
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Tonpa Offline
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Has there ever been an incident where a young male was never kicked out and joined the coalition?
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BigLion39 Offline
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Very weird dynamics there between the Ross males and BYM. It sure is a head scratcher!
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(07-25-2021, 04:58 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Has there ever been an incident where a young male was never kicked out and joined the coalition?

In a coalition of 2 or more, already established coalition, no i dont know of such a case..
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United States Mohawk Offline
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(07-25-2021, 04:58 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Has there ever been an incident where a young male was never kicked out and joined the coalition?

Not quite like this.  Mapoza accepted the Xikukutsus, but he was a lone male and there are two of them.

The Avocas were pretty tolerant of NkYM.  I wonder if he'd been as determined to stick around as BYM, if a similar situation would have played out.  I doubt it, though.

The craziest part is that BYM had chances to form a coalition with males his own age in recent months.  I think he bumped into one of his cousins from the Birmingham Breakaway and didn't link up.  I know he met the Torchwood male (a more distant cousin) and chased him away. 

He was also seen wistfully watching the Tintswalo males last year when they were still nomads.  He may have been intimidated by the size of their group so I don't really blame him for not trying to join them.
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RookiePundit Offline
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Very strange. How old are Ross males again?

I guess it is comibination of these:
a) they can't chase him away and with his current size it is not worth the risk to challenge him at all cost unless it becomes necessary, which they clearly don't consider be the case
b) as long as he is not behaving like a threat for cubs (Tintswalos don't mind the latest Mbiri cubs in their natal pride as well, ofc it helps if he male(s) are related to the mothers) and  is not challenging them for mating rights, he is essentially just olstrign their numbers for food
c) that is likely to change eventually, but even then, it could give them more longevity as dominant pride males, to some extent regardless of their condition, no matter the assumed coalition dynamics would change in BYM favour over time (the blond mane male is already clearly second fiddle most of the time, even now)
d) more importantly this gives current litters much better chance to make it, security wise, no matter how Ross male would age well in next years, and perhaps few more litters after these (I don't mean few more round of littters)
e) this all seems nice to have but not that needed right now, as there doesn't seem to be strong challenge for either of Birminghams prides, but that might change anytime and maybe they are aware of Mbiris - in this case getting a third male, rather than risking injury by getting rid of him, seem beneficial; at the same time they might still have Birmingham breakaway pride to fall into if the original Birmingham pride gets taken or vice versa
f) for the sake of mentioning it, while I don't think that is something they might instinctively consider, BYM's limp might eventually work in their favour if he can't run that fast, either by not being able to chase either of them properly if the relationship with him go south on day or in case of suffering a succesful takeover or even just losing a fight against a stronger opposition, BYM is more likely the one not to keep up, ending up left behind nad being caught ; but chances are before anything like that happens Ross males might acquire injuries on their own.

Still that doesn't explain anything, just factors that might influences it, the thing that is a known individual that the pride don't mind around like an alien male would is likely the most decisive one. It would be interesting if this would affect kicking out of the white male and rest of the sub-adults.
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Germany BA0701 Offline
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(07-27-2021, 02:50 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: Very strange. How old are Ross males again?

I guess it is comibination of these:
a) they can't chase him away and with his current size it is not worth the risk to challenge him at all cost unless it becomes necessary, which they clearly don't consider be the case
b) as long as he is not behaving like a threat for cubs (Tintswalos don't mind the latest Mbiri cubs in their natal pride as well, ofc it helps if he male(s) are related to the mothers) and  is not challenging them for mating rights, he is essentially just olstrign their numbers for food
c) that is likely to change eventually, but even then, it could give them more longevity as dominant pride males, to some extent regardless of their condition, no matter the assumed coalition dynamics would change in BYM favour over time (the blond mane male is already clearly second fiddle most of the time, even now)
d) more importantly this gives current litters much better chance to make it, security wise, no matter how Ross male would age well in next years, and perhaps few more litters after these (I don't mean few more round of littters)
e) this all seems nice to have but not that needed right now, as there doesn't seem to be strong challenge for either of Birminghams prides, but that might change anytime and maybe they are aware of Mbiris - in this case getting a third male, rather than risking injury by getting rid of him, seem beneficial; at the same time they might still have Birmingham breakaway pride to fall into if the original Birmingham pride gets taken or vice versa
f) for the sake of mentioning it, while I don't think that is something they might instinctively consider, BYM's limp might eventually work in their favour if he can't run that fast, either by not being able to chase either of them properly if the relationship with him go south on day or in case of suffering a succesful takeover or even just losing a fight against a stronger opposition, BYM is more likely the one not to keep up, ending up left behind nad being caught ; but chances are before anything like that happens Ross males might acquire injuries on their own.

Still that doesn't explain anything, just factors that might influences it, the thing that is a known individual that the pride don't mind around like an alien male would is likely the most decisive one. It would be interesting if this would affect kicking out of the white male and rest of the sub-adults.

I have been wondering where those subs are lately, but haven't given much thought to their returning to the pride until you brought it up. BYM was sticking rather close to them for a bit, perhaps due to the fact that they appear to have great hunting skills, keeping themselves well fed, not to mention out of all the lions in the pride he often seemed to have the closest bond with the white male. But, he also was able to feed himself rather well too. Either scenario causes me to ponder the possibilities, such as if they don't try to rejoin does he eventually rejoin them or stay where he is, if they do try to join with no success does he leave with them, or as you mentioned what if they are permitted to come back. Very interesting stuff happening, that much is certain.
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Germany BA0701 Offline
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(07-27-2021, 02:09 AM)Mohawk Wrote:
(07-25-2021, 04:58 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Has there ever been an incident where a young male was never kicked out and joined the coalition?

Not quite like this.  Mapoza accepted the Xikukutsus, but he was a lone male and there are two of them.

The Avocas were pretty tolerant of NkYM.  I wonder if he'd been as determined to stick around as BYM, if a similar situation would have played out.  I doubt it, though.

The craziest part is that BYM had chances to form a coalition with males his own age in recent months.  I think he bumped into one of his cousins from the Birmingham Breakaway and didn't link up.  I know he met the Torchwood male (a more distant cousin) and chased him away. 

He was also seen wistfully watching the Tintswalo males last year when they were still nomads.  He may have been intimidated by the size of their group so I don't really blame him for not trying to join them.

He is a strange cat for sure, pun intended. He ran off the Torchwood male, when they encountered each other (a perfect matchup if they could have gotten along imo), he also bumped into the young Mbiri males while they were feeding on a kill, but I don't think they even knew he was there. He is really close with the white male, so that seemed like a natural fit, and we still don't know if they might still form a coalition at some point, and there is also a male from the Birmingham breakaway pride that is nearly the exact same age as BYM, and I had hoped that they might meet up one day. Whatever happens, seems he is going to be the one making the decision. When it comes to this guy, the best thing to do is to go in expecting the unexpected. Definitely an outlier. If you watch that video of them feeding together, he was really hesitant to start feeding, very cautious, he was watching every move the Ross males made very closely, so he was not at ease there, in fact he seemed much more concerned by their presence than they did his.

As @Tr1x24 mentioned, he does great with the cubs, shades of Othawa Male come to mind in watching him interact with the little ones, so I am sure that is playing a huge role in this as well.
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RookiePundit Offline
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There is enough young Brimingham Breakaway males for them to make coalition themselves alone, isn't it? (not that they will do the most straightforward thing ofc, with lions nothing is certain) Or is there too much of an age difference?
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(07-27-2021, 05:19 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: There is enough young Brimingham Breakaway males for them to make coalition themselves alone, isn't it? (not that they will do the most straightforward thing ofc, with lions nothing is certain) Or is there too much of an age difference?

Age difference between oldest male and 3 youngest is similar to one in Birmingham pride, but breakeaway have 3 more middle males, who are around 3.5 - 4 yrs, oldest male can definitely form a coalition with atleast those 3.
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