There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Roan Du Plessis said: "The White Lioness is back with the pride. Two Lionesses are not with the Pride right now- White Dot and the mother of the killed male cub. She also has a bad puncture wound at her throat caused by the Mbiri Males"
The three Birmingham boys met up with YBM and the Torchwood Male and that didn't go very well for the subadults. There was no welcoming committee and the Birmingham youngsters got into a tussle with the other two. It was reported the White Lion has a few scratches and bites from this encounter.
(09-07-2021, 12:38 AM)lionuk Wrote: The three Birmingham boys met up with YBM and the Torchwood Male and that didn't go very well for the subadults. There was no welcoming committee and the Birmingham youngsters got into a tussle with the other two. It was reported the White Lion has a few scratches and bites from this encounter.
Expected, young males prob saw their older bro and tried to hang as they did before, but he is now with Torchwood male, who was not happy seeing 3 unknown subadult males..
BYM prob supported his new coalition partner (As partner should do if they want to succeed together) but i dont think he would seriously harm them, yet warn them that they are not welcome anymore in his companionship..
A lot of people want them to join, but age difference is way too big at this stage, these 3 young boys are not even 3 yrs old, Torchwood/BYM are almost 5 and territorial ready males, that cant work.
(09-07-2021, 01:04 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: BYM prob supported his new coalition partner (As partner should do if they want to succeed together) but i dont think he would seriously harm them, yet warn them that they are not welcome anymore in his companionship..
Yes, I agree. Personally, I think it's good about BYM's behaviour toward the subadults as it affirms his bond with Torchwood Male. These 3 subadults will be fine as they have each other to form a coalition without BYM.
Yeah. People need to get more sceptical with pairings.
Sure huge coalitions with older lions taking in some kids may seem like a wholesome idea.
In reality the older males would just use them as child soldiers and keep the food and lionesses for themselves.
Three is pretty much the perfect size for a coalition of lions, so those subs will be fine without BYM.
(09-07-2021, 01:35 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: In reality the older males would just use them as child soldiers and keep the food and lionesses for themselves.
The older males would hog most of the kills, true, but they would also protect the subadults. The experience of 2 street smart older males would ease the nomadic phase of the youngsters greatly, increasing their chances of survival as well. And it would also help the older males later in life, having 3 strong younger males to back you up when you're hitting the early teens would make for an easy retirement probably. I see alot more benefits than losses if they joined up.
Mostly for the elder.
Sure the younger members would get some protection. But that's about it.
They will only get the scraps assuming any are left, so run a greater risk of starving. Just looking at a lioness to long would get them beat up, so no mating. Internal aggression would be fierce. So they would just get beaten up by each other rather than a outsider. While a coalition of three typically is more than capable of defending itself if it gets in a fight.
Ultimately the benefits of a large coalition are not worth the costs for its weaker members. While the risks a smaller coalition takes is easily negated by the huge rewards. Which is why larger coalitions often split after a while.
(09-07-2021, 03:43 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: They will only get the scraps assuming any are left, so run a greater risk of starving. Just looking at a lioness to long would get them beat up, so no mating.
Come on you're exaggerating it, difference of 1 year within coalitions is not that uncommon anyway and not like the younger members of those coalitions starve. They are nomads right now, they won't be fighting for mating rights anytime soon, so it isn't really a priority. There is an hierarchy among coalitions anyway, they won't all get equal everything even if they remained just the 3 of them. A bigger benefit for all is numbers, coalitions of 2 lions have to fight tooth and nail for territory and prides, and are always at the mercy of bigger coalitions. The 5 of them would have very little resistance if any when they decide to challenge for territory. I really think this is what made Mapogos what they were, they had Makulu to lead 5 youngsters and it made those 5 so confident that when it came time to challenge for territory, you know what happened next.
3 is nice number, but when it is 3 at the start of the nomadic phase that doesn't mean they will be 3 when ready for a takeover. Nharu young males started as 5 and remerged as 3 Tumbelas in a poor condition on average. Unchallenged Tintswalos managed to go down from 4 to 3. You can always split if you are too many or the excesive number might sort itself meanwhile by starvation, injury, disease, freak accident or fight going south (happened even to a smart coalition like Majingilanes initially).
3 is a nice deterrent, but they need to bulk up, keep their condition and stick together for that to matter. Then in which direction they will disperse and who they encounter will be crucial, as there will be more groups like them till then, not just current coalitions dominant or nomadic (minus some of them possibly not making it much longer).
09-07-2021, 05:42 AM( This post was last modified: 09-07-2021, 05:45 AM by Tr1x24 )
(09-07-2021, 04:25 AM)sik94 Wrote: Come on you're exaggerating it, difference of 1 year within coalitions is not that uncommon anyway and not like the younger members of those coalitions starve. They are nomads right now, they won't be fighting for mating rights anytime soon, so it isn't really a priority. There is an hierarchy among coalitions anyway, they won't all get equal everything even if they remained just the 3 of them. A bigger benefit for all is numbers, coalitions of 2 lions have to fight tooth and nail for territory and prides, and are always at the mercy of bigger coalitions. The 5 of them would have very little resistance if any when they decide to challenge for territory. I really think this is what made Mapogos what they were, they had Makulu to lead 5 youngsters and it made those 5 so confident that when it came time to challenge for territory, you know what happened next.
Difference between these 2 is 2 years (almost 5 and almost 3) which is huge at this point..
BYM/Torchwood are pretty much adult lions and ready for being territorial males, while 3 subadults are around 1.5-2 years away from that phase, they are not of use for 2 older males at this point, only would be eating their shares of kills..
Lions dont think logicaly like humans.. "Oh these 3 guys will be beasts in 2-3 years and we will conquer all Timbavati, we just need to wait for them to grown up".. Yea no..
BYM/Torchwood wont wait to their 7 years for this guys to mature to push for territory together.
Coalitions like Mapogos and Mpondos had 1 older male who accepted subadults (or subadults /their pride accepted him) , because older male didn't had many other options, because he couldn't compete for territory alone and he waited those subadults to mature to push for territory.. If BYM didn't found Torchwood, he would might do the same..
Theres difference between making a coalitions between adult males and subadults, and adult males and adult males, obiviously adult males and subadults have completely different ambitions and priorities, which dont work well together..
Its like adult taking a teenager to get married or to bar fight, obiviously theres no place there for him yet hehe..
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09-07-2021, 02:01 PM( This post was last modified: 09-07-2021, 02:02 PM by Duco Ndona )
Its two years. Which is like placing a 15 year old with a 30 year old and expecting them to have the same outlook on life. One wines about having to flip burgers rather than desperately trying to get laid. The other is already eying a good payrise and thinking about buying a house for his wife and children.
Lions are not that group loyal. They aren't going to stick together for the sake of building the biggest and strongest coalition or loyalty. They don't care about such rankings. They just want food and lionesses for themselves and aren't going to share. Especially if there isn't much of it and 5 mouths is a lot to feed.
Even the Mapogos realized that their big size wasn't working out for all of them and split up.
Birmingham Pride of lions
