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Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage

Tr1x24 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 04-16-2024, 07:46 PM by Tr1x24 )

(04-16-2024, 08:51 AM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Very strange she is still with them tho I mean the plains camp male arrived with their sisters and they got chased and regrouped but one day they left same with the matshipiri males their sister vanished She’s 4 in a half years old right so I guess she’s just not ready to mate and has no need to leave them
(04-16-2024, 01:01 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Lions are social animals and the group hasnt matured yet. So she doesnt have the confidence yet to head out on her own.

We had few examples recently like this one, Vuyelas, Ndhzengas also had company of sister thru nomadic pase.

Females in this situation usually leave because when she matures and starts showing signs of estrus, her brothers are trying to mate with her which she obiviously doesnt wants and rejects them.

Then she moves of from them and finds different males in that area to mate with, then settles in there and thats it.

Thats what Ndhzengas sister did.

But problem with this lone nomadic females is they for some reason are coming quite late into estrus, Tsalala girl only recently started mating at almost 5 yrs of age, and Kambula girl still doesnt showing signs for that.

Maybe reason is stress of that lifestyle and fear of territorial males, from which they are "programmed" to run.

Females in stable prides dont have that problem and are coming into estrus quite sooner, some even around 3 yrs of age.

And if Kambula female still didnt hit that maturity clock, theres no reason for her to leave her brothers, who are her "pride", in her eyes.

But then is danger that males find new pride before she leaves, which is danger for her, thats how Vuyelas sister got killed.
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United States BA0701 Offline
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(04-16-2024, 06:52 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Looks like both males where quite "lucky" that they didnt sustain further mauling, only few bite marks on K6 back legs:


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Both look sore, but should recover relatively quickly from that.

Question is what exactly happened that neither of 2 males didnt get killed or more badly mauled, as both where definetly caught by 2 males based if injuries.

So either other Kambulas intervened and didnt just run away, or, minding that Kambulas prob didnt challenge neither of Gijimas or PCMs, it was just a message from them towards Kambulas to stop hanging in/near their territory.

I hope Kambulas got that message and will start moving north towards K4 and finally establish themselves there with NKs.

Exactly what I was thinking about all of this. As we are all well aware, Gijimas and PCMs are capable of dishing out terrible maulings, and even killing other lions. That these two have what may be, relatively speaking, minor injuries, implies, to me, that one or more of the other may have intervened. Without witnesses to the attacks, we will never know, but in both instances something stopped the attacking males from doing a lot more damage.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(04-16-2024, 07:37 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote: From what I remember she did try to rejoin the pride twice and aggressive K6 lioness kept attacking her. K12 had even met and was accepted by one of the Nzinga males. Very sad that she was too scared to try again to rejoin

I think that happened when her older sisters where rejoining the pride and started mating with Ndhzengas, she was too young for mating then and Ndhzengas would prob kill her or chase her off (which prob happened).
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Ttimemarti Offline
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(04-16-2024, 07:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(04-16-2024, 07:37 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote: From what I remember she did try to rejoin the pride twice and aggressive K6 lioness kept attacking her. K12 had even met and was accepted by one of the Nzinga males. Very sad that she was too scared to try again to rejoin

I think that happened when her older sisters where rejoining the pride and started mating with Ndhzengas, she was too young for mating then and Ndhzengas would prob kill her or chase her off (which prob happened).

Yeah I believe read somewhere that the younger kambulas had pushed out and attacked the older females making basically making them form the breakaway pride but it’s strange bc the one older female they accepted isn’t any of their mothers lol k5 is the mother k6 and k12i believe k5 died mother of k3,k4, and k5 I can’t remember the other older girl that died but the younger female that died was k2s sister i think yeah but it’s just interesting so see who gets pushed out and who gets to stay sorta thing
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Panama Mapokser Offline
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@GhostCatP-22 The sister has no issue hunting anything and has been observed making smaller solo kills.
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United States T_Ferguson Online
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So.. K4 is indeed mating.  I guess they can go for the trifecta if the BDM's ever wake up to this fact.



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Tr1x24 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 04-17-2024, 01:20 PM by Tr1x24 )

K5 was yesterday seen at Gowrie Dam at Djuma, so he is not so close to group in Londolozi, but he is looking good and walking pretty normal.

Lets hope that Londolozi group comes north aswell.
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United States criollo2mil Offline
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(04-16-2024, 10:55 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @GhostCatP-22 The sister has no issue hunting anything and has been observed making smaller solo kills.

Facts. She’s actually quite the skilled huntress. Many times leading the effort.

Hunting would not be her problems when she finally moves on.
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Ngonya Offline
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Pretoriouskop and K2

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United States BA0701 Offline
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(04-17-2024, 09:34 PM)Ngonya Wrote: Pretoriouskop and K2

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That glare, it's enough to send chills down your spine.
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Canada Robot00 Offline
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Made me wish the two southern kam boys stayed and conquer s.s. with their four brothers like mapogos did.

I just want to witness what it was like in somewhat of a "real" time event as opposed to bits and pieces like mapogos era
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Ttimemarti Offline
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Same but also no it was not a good time to be a lion during the mapogo reign to be honest
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Duco Ndona Online
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Seeing we would be very familiar now with the lions being killed. I doubt anybody really wants to see another Mapogo like coalition rising to power.
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(04-18-2024, 01:50 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Seeing we would be very familiar now with the lions being killed. I doubt anybody really wants to see another Mapogo like coalition rising to power.

Agreed, however, while I know that Willem Botha, and several other well known guides from that period have stated they believe the Mapgo killed 100 lions, and they would know far better than most of us (being eyes on the ground and all, heck, Willem Botha physically touched all 6 of them), I tend to lean towards the side that believes there may be some exaggeration in those numbers. Firstly, it would be impossible to know the numbers exactly, as the Mapogo territory expanded nearly all of SS, and secondly as @Tr1x24 has pointed out previously, 100 lions is a huge number of lions, surely it would have left SS a lion wasteland, where there would hardly be any left. Did they kill a lot of lions, absolutely, likely more than any other coalition that I am aware of, but 100? I'm not so sure about that.

They ruled SS for 6 years, so that means they averaged almost 17 lions per year. So, while I believe their numbers may be exaggerated, I still think I agree with @Duco Ndona , I am not sure we'd want to see that again today.
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Duco Ndona Online
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( This post was last modified: 04-18-2024, 03:00 AM by Duco Ndona )

Its probably not that far off. Atleast depending on how you look at it. 

Sabi sands probably went through a part of its cycle at the time with lots of large prides with lot of vulnerable cubs and subadults who make an easy target during a takeover. So numbers shoot up fast with each takeover they did.
As the coalition was big, there was also lot of redirected frustration, which often expresses itself in violence towards the lionesses and cubs.

Though I must note that the coalition did split at one point. They split even to the degree the two coalitions had some big fights with one side taking over the prides of the other at one point. 
Back then the narrative added the scores of the two groups together. But today we would likely treat the two groups as two seperate coalitions. Afteral its not like we count the southern and northern Avocas as one coalition. Sharing control over both north and south sabi sands. 

This would drop their score considerably and its unlikely that without ignoring split ups, we will ever see a repeat on the same level.
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