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Big cat and Bear tale
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Tiger T-120 eating his large male sloth bear kill:
"It was a bone chilling moment to witness the sight of a Tiger with a kill. Also listening to the sound when he was literally tearing apart the kill."  *This image is copyright of its original author https://www.facebook.com/groups/TIGERSof...782517820/ 
Ussuri Brown Bear and Siberian Tiger: Rare First Encounter Captured on Camera
(01-28-2024, 02:26 PM)sanjay Wrote: Not sure if this is shared in any other thread. Tiger killing a sloth bear (probably a sub adult) The bear was not a sub-adult, it was a fully-grown adult bear killed:  *This image is copyright of its original author The bear is definitely an adult. Notice that the bear has large, fully-developed canines:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author 
Sub adults still have large canines, you’re not going to be able to determine a difference of a few cms with the naked eye. Judging by the size of the bear, it’s a small female or a youngster. I’ve seen a Bear that was the size of small Boar and a Male that was massive, probably double the size of this Bear.
(01-29-2024, 08:07 PM)Pckts Wrote: Sub adults still have large canines, you’re not going to be able to determine a difference of a few cms with the naked eye. Judging by the size of the bear, it’s a small female or a youngster. I’ve seen a Bear that was the size of small Boar and a Male that was massive, probably double the size of this Bear. This bear is clearly not a small female or youngster. It's been stated that it was a fully-grown adult bear killed (Screen-shot from 'Tigers of India'). Individual size and weight variation, especially in bear subspecies, is very pronounced. A fully-grown adult male brown bear can weigh only 165 kg, whereas another individual of the same subspecies can weigh 300 - 400+kg. So it depends. Sloth bears are a medium-sized bear species. Whereas Bengal tigers (along with Amur tigers) are the largest subspecies of tiger, significantly larger than even a fully-grown adult male sloth bear. So the average tiger is gonna make the average adult male sloth bear look kinda small anyway. So that doesn't mean that this bear was a "youngster" or "small female" like you're merely guessing. This adult sloth bear looks "small" to you because it was killed by a significantly larger predator, that's all. (01-29-2024, 08:52 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:"clearly"(01-29-2024, 08:07 PM)Pckts Wrote: Sub adults still have large canines, you’re not going to be able to determine a difference of a few cms with the naked eye. Judging by the size of the bear, it’s a small female or a youngster. I’ve seen a Bear that was the size of small Boar and a Male that was massive, probably double the size of this Bear. It's clearly a small bear and stating it to be fully grown doesn't change a thing, like the female who fought off Matkasur would be stated to be fully grown but I can guarantee she is also a small female and probably a young mother at that. Brander- "Many Bears continue to grow after being 3 years old, and it is certain they continue to increase in bulk until 8-10 years of age" I've personally seen both big and small bears in wild as well as big and small Tigers in the wild, when you see a big male, it most definitely will not be dwarfed by a big tiger, it will certainly be smaller than the tiger but a big male Bear is much larger than this bear shown. A big male will weigh the same as a Tigress but packed in a more stout frame Here's a decent males measurements "some what above average" from Brander (between the pegs) 5'7'' length including Tail 6'9'' Tall when standing 2'8'' Shoulder Height 4'3'' Body Girth 1'10'' Forearm 2'11'' Neck Girth 3'2'' Head Girth 320lbs - 145kgs (01-29-2024, 10:51 PM)Pckts Wrote:(01-29-2024, 08:52 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:"clearly"(01-29-2024, 08:07 PM)Pckts Wrote: Sub adults still have large canines, you’re not going to be able to determine a difference of a few cms with the naked eye. Judging by the size of the bear, it’s a small female or a youngster. I’ve seen a Bear that was the size of small Boar and a Male that was massive, probably double the size of this Bear. No, its clearly a typical average-sized adult sloth bear. Again, sloth bears aren't that big, so an average adult tiger is gonna usually make an average adult sloth bear look small. I'm not saying or implying that this bear was a "big male" killed, I'm saying its definitely an adult sloth bear though. Based on its size, large canines and Arun Kumar's (Tigers of India) statement, its clearly an adult bear killed. "Probably a young mother"?? Once again, sloth bears aren't that big, they're a medium-sized bear species and a fully mature adult female sloth bear can easily be the same size of the female bear that fought off Matkasur. So that doesn't mean that the female sloth bear that fought off Matkasur was "probably a young mother". Like I said, individual size & weight variation in bear species is very pronounced. Even Asiatic black bears reach larger sizes/weights than sloth bears.
You don’t know what an average sloth Bear looks like and there is no debate, that’s a small Sloth Bear. Females can be as large as males with sizes weighed at 130kgs and average around 100kgs.
A photographer stating a bear to be an adult means little and like it’s already been stated, young animals can still have large canines. I’m not saying it’s a sub adult or not but it most certainly is a small bear and possibly could be a sub adult or young adult. (01-30-2024, 07:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: You don’t know what an average sloth Bear looks like and there is no debate, that’s a small Sloth Bear. Females can be as large as males with sizes weighed at 130kgs and average around 100kgs. Of course I know what an average sloth bear looks like. I've seen countless videos/pictures of adult sloth bears, and I can clearly see that this bear was an adult bear killed by the tiger. Whether it was small, medium, or large sized is NOT my point. My point is, regardless of the size, this was an adult sloth bear killed. And looks like an average-sized bear. You're overestimating the size of sloth bears. They're not that big, the average sloth bear is significantly smaller than a adult male tiger. And that photographer who stated that the bear was an adult, has FAR MORE experience in the wild than you at filming and observing tigers, sloth bears and other wildlife. You did only ONE single safari trip in India as a tourist and then act like you're some kind of an expert on the sizes of tigers and sloth bears. Your personal experience doesn't even compare to Arun Kumar's experiences, period. So yes, there is no debate. Lets look at it this way.... a forum poster who did only one single safari trip as a tourist about 7 years ago, says its not a full-grown adult bear killed, whereas on the other hand, an actual Indian wildlife photographer who lives and works in India, has way, way more field experience at observing and filming tigers, sloth bears etc, says the bear was a fully-grown adult. Now, going by logic and common sense, who do you think I should listen to?? (01-31-2024, 09:09 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:(01-30-2024, 07:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: You don’t know what an average sloth Bear looks like and there is no debate, that’s a small Sloth Bear. Females can be as large as males with sizes weighed at 130kgs and average around 100kgs. A picture is only as big as what's on your screen, you've never seen one, that's the point. You have no idea what they look like, how big they can be or how they would compare to another animal that you've never seen. And how many tours have you done? I went to 3 different parks, did 5+ tours at each park, what's your experience? Is my experience as much as his, definitely not but it certainly far exceeds yours and any photographer or expert in general will not be able to determine the age of something without obvious identification help, like a family history or close proximity observations and even then it's a crapshoot. Then especially when it comes Bears that have no obvious age signs outside of the scars on their face or body deterioration, none of which that bear showed from the limited images we could see. So save your attitude, as fanatical as you are about this, you're better off taking a step back and start looking at the natural world through a more realistic lens. (01-31-2024, 10:56 PM)Pckts Wrote:(01-31-2024, 09:09 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:(01-30-2024, 07:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: You don’t know what an average sloth Bear looks like and there is no debate, that’s a small Sloth Bear. Females can be as large as males with sizes weighed at 130kgs and average around 100kgs. Oh wow....amazing, you went to 3 different parks and did 5+tours in each park, just amazing! Like none of the many tens of thousands of random laymen/tourists haven't done before, right? And how many times in your entire life have you done this? ONCE. And how many years ago? 7 years ago! You talk like you've done safari's in India multiple times over the years. Your experience is equal to or even much less than many tourists. You claim you saw an impressive big male sloth bear, so show me the picture? Seeing a big male bear, you must have taken a picture, right? Yes, I do look at the natural world through a realistic lens, just like biologists, zoologists, and forest rangers etc do, unlike you, who arrogantly dismisses countless factual accounts and evidence of tigers killing bears and bull gaurs reported and documented by actual real experts (with a huge amount of field experience).... LOOK IN THE MIRROR!! And this photo shows the typical size ratio difference between an adult male tiger and a adult sloth bear: *This image is copyright of its original author Also note, adult sloth bears usually look bigger because they have very thick shaggy fur coats, which adds to the illusion of their size. But this bear was killed in the water, so its wet coat, being soaked and pressed down, makes it appear somewhat smaller than it would actually look with a dry coat.
Tell me more about what a bear usually looks like that you’ve never seen before.
My experience certainly isn’t a vast as some but considering I’ve seen all the panthera cats in their wild states, I’d say my experience is certainly more than others. And I’m very appreciative of that. With regards to the big male I saw, do you think I’m lying? I’ve made threads on each safari trip I’ve made and posted them here if you actually cared to look instead of running your mouth.  *This image is copyright of its original author
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