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Bear Size ~

United States Polar Offline
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No one, and I repeat, no one can determine a 2000-pound bear from a 2500-pound bear at a intensive stare from a photograph. They both are just heavy as can be for their species. A 1000-pound man doesn't look any different from a 1400-pound man from a pictoral glance.

Again, like I and Pckts suggested earlier, limb and chest measurements (and possibly other parts to determine weight) should be taken into account. We can then work from there.

As for Brotherbear, you are right that polar bears grow larger in the wild and vice-versa for other bear species (haven't we discussed this earlier?) But here, we are taking only wild bears, not captive ones.

So far, the biggest brown bear is of the Kodiak specimens (~1600 pounds?) and of the giant Kotzebue polar bear, it is uncertain, but I am guessing 1600-2000 pounds.
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United States Polar Offline
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(07-07-2016, 04:47 AM)Pckts Wrote: You keep saying this...
"the heaviest polar bear weighed 1,541 pounds while the heaviest confirmed Kodiak bear weighed 1,653 pounds. "

But that is incorrect, you have multiple polar bears weighing 2000lbs plus and you still are unable to show me how the kodiak was weighed nor his body measurements, the same protocol you are asking for the polar bear you are refusing to accept are not being used for the kodiak bear you're accepting.

You also don't know how a kodiak would respond to a strictly carnivorous diet, especially a blubber rich diet. Polar bears have traveled down a different evolutionary path and thus their adaptions will not turn into automatic advantages for another bear. The bears also have morphological differences and while they may be "similar" they certainly aren't the same.

I agree that blubber will raise the brown bear's normal weight higher, but still not as high as the polar bear's normal weight. As Pckts suggested, polar bears could have genes which just automatically makes them heavier than a brown bear given an equal diet, but I don't know about the genealogy of polar bears. However, I definitely know almost everything else about their physicality and habits.

I think Brotherbear meant that the heaviest well-documented polar bear is 1541-pounds, but there definitely were ones ranging over 2000-pounds back then. Again, the Kotzebue specimen is not well-documented at all, or maybe its info is hidden and kept somewhere within a filing cabinet. Who knows? Same can be with the maximum Kodiak.

Well-documented measurements of animals usually provide the girths of various body parts, total length/height, as well as the weight if the system of weight-bearing is conclusive.
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United States Pckts Offline
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Boone and crocket recognizes skull size and since the polar bear was cracked they didn't recognize it but that has nothing to do with body weight.
And the polar bears skull exists, it's body is mounted and its weight is accepted.
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United States Polar Offline
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The Boone and Crocket Skull collection is not biased towards any bear in general, but it seems to skip over a few distinctions between skulls of different bears species. It only takes the length and width of the skull regardless of configuration.

For one, polar bear skulls have an increased condylobasal length/width ratio than any other modern bear skulls. Two, polar bears have a smaller head for their body size than a brown bear and panda.

@Pckts,

What do you mean "the polar bear was cracked"? Do you mean its skull?

Also, is "the polar bear skull exists" a reference to the Kotzebue specimen?
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-07-2016, 07:04 AM by Pckts )

Correct @Polar
The skull was cracked during the treating procedure and thus was unable to be used in the Boone and crocket scoring system but it still exists.
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India brotherbear Offline
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The Boone and Crocket Skull collection is not biased towards any bear in general, but it seems to skip over a few distinctions between skulls of different bears species. It only takes the length and width of the skull regardless of configuration.

For one, polar bear skulls have an increased condylobasal length/width ratio than any other modern bear skulls. Two, polar bears have a smaller head for their body size than a brown bear and panda. 
 
*I agree Polar. Even among brown bears, a bigger skull does not mean a bigger bear. But, skull-size is the best that the Boone and Crockett Club could come up with as a substitute for actual body measurements and weights. Sport-hunters do not carry the equipment needed to weigh a 1,000+ pound bear. Neither skull size nor footprint size determines the size of the bear. 
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India brotherbear Offline
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http://shaggygod.proboards.com/ 
 
In Hudson Bay, the mean scale weight of 94 males >5 years of age was 489 kg. The largest bear in that group was a 13-year-old, which weighed 654 kg (Kolenosky et al. 1992). The heaviest bear we have weighed in Alaska was 610 kg, and several animals were heavy enough that we could not raise them with our helicopter or weighing tripod. Some animals too heavy to lift have been estimated to weigh 800 kg (DeMaster and Stirling 1981). Females are smaller, with peak weights usually not exceeding 400 kg. Total lengths of males in the Beaufort Sea of Alaska ranged up to 285 cm. Such an animal may reach nearly 4 m when standing on its hind legs and is 1.7 m shoulder height when standing on all four legs. Chest girth for large males is close to 200 cm. Although smaller, females in the Beaufort sea were as long as 247 cm with chest girths up to 175 cm. Only prehistoric polar bears and the giant short-faced bear (Arctodus spp.) of the Pleistocene were of greater stature than today's polar bears (Kurten 1964; Stirling and Derocher 1990).

Manning (1971) suggested there is a cline in size of polar bears across the Arctic. Size increases, he suggested, with distance from east Greenland across the Nearctic to the Chukchi Sea between Alaska and Russia. Manning (1971) also suggested that polar bears from Svalbard may be larger than those from east Greenland. A cline in size across the Palearctic also might occur, but samples from the Russian Arctic are inadequate to confirm it (Manning 1971).

The hypothesized cline was based on measurements made from skulls housed in museums around the world. Unfortunately, the sources of skulls in the various collections were not similar. Of particular note was that many of the skulls originating in the Chukchi Sea may have been donated by trophy hunters. These hunters worked over the ice in teams of aircraft (Tovey and Scott 1957) and were quite effective in killing a great number of the largest polar bears (Amstrup et al. 1986). Another potential problem is that ages of bears in the sample were estimated only by class or life stage. Hence, older bears from one locale might have been compared to younger bears (of the same age class) in another.

Potentially non standardized collection methods prevent any meaningful conclusions about relative sizes of polar bears from different locales. Also, if there is a cline in skull sizes around the world, it appears that body sizes and weights of polar bears do not follow a similar cline. The largest bears for which actual scale weights are known have come from the Hudson and James Bay areas of Canada and from the Beaufort Sea of Alaska, not from the Chukchi Sea. That observation, too, may be subject to some bias, as the most prolonged and intensive polar bear studies have been conducted in Hudson Bay and the Beaufort Sea. Greater numbers of captures in those locations may have increased the probability that very large bears were included in the sample. 
 
Here is the problem. A polar bear was weighed in at 610 kg ( 1,345 pounds ) and another at 654 kg ( 1,442 pounds ). These two huge bear weights are confirmed. Those bears too heavy to be weighed have estimated weights, thus unconfirmed. Again, I am not arguing that a polar bear can outweigh a brown bear. 
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India brotherbear Offline
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http://shaggygod.proboards.com/ 
 
Largest live bear handled by usfg was just in 2013 I believe - 1398 lbs - about same size as largest confirmed in churchill
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India brotherbear Offline
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http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
 

The polar bear is the largest land carnivore with adult males measuring up to 280 cm in length, and up to 160 cm in height at its shoulders. Males typically weigh 400-600 kg, although the weight of an adult male has reached 800 kg in some reported cases. Females are smaller and lighter (130-300 kg), however, the weight of a pregnant female going into a den may reach 500 kg. 
 
800 kg = 1,764 pounds. 
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United States Pckts Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author

11'3'' nose to tail over the contours of the body
4'10'' around the body
1'5'' around the paws

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=panthe...2&see_lz=1



*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Pckts Offline
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Selawik National Wildlife Refuge
Did you know...Polar bears in the Chukchi Sea area are some of the biggest around? This year the USFWS research team tagged and released a big male weighing in at 1,390 pounds. Photo: USFWS (from 2009 field work).

*This image is copyright of its original author



I assume this is the claim of the largest kodiak and there is a 1600lb polar bear on hear as well

*This image is copyright of its original author

Relatively small polar bear hunting records, some records "Fahrenheit hunting big beast" on the measurement of these records is hard to say
From Nunavut Baffin Bay example, length 287cm, shoulder height 137cm, shoulder height measurement methods have a problem, it is estimated that only amounts to a wrist
An example from the Arctic waters, a total length of 262cm, weight 726kg
From Norway, Spitsbergen in two cases, namely, a total length of 262cm and 244cm
One case from 俄罗斯法兰士 Josef Land archipelago, a total length of 259cm


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United States Pckts Offline
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Here's a 110 stone bear or 1540lbs

Q: How do you measure a 110-stone polar bear? A: Very carefully!

A ten-stone research scientist doesn't often get the better of a 110-stone polar bear.
But thanks to a powerful tranquilliser dart, this scientist, deep in the icy wastes of Alaska, was able to do just that.
Just a few minutes after being struck by the dart, and roaring with surprise, the angry male bear collapsed on the icy ground, unconscious.

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1. Alert to the intruders: The polar bear spots the research team

But why go to such lengths to fell the bear? Well, a small team of intrepid scientists are compiling the vital statistics of all the polar bears in this area of Alaska for Project ThermoSTAT, a campaign that is drawing attention to the plight of polar bears and the threat posed to their shrinking environment by global warming.
With only 20,000 to 25,000 polar bears still existing in the wild, their task is vital.
To conduct their studies, the scientists quickly lay out the tranquillised bear in a spread-eagle position. The skull is measured, before the length of the bear is noted, using a traditional tape measure. Male polar bears, on average, are between eight and 10feet tall, while females usually come in between six and eight feet.

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2. Bullseye: The team hit their target and the 110-stone polar bear falls to the ice


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3. It's a knockout: A few minutes after being struck, the bear is unconscious

Weighing the bears, though, is a rather more awkward process. While two men using a weight bar were able to lift and weigh the 26-stone female bear they had tranquillised earlier in the day, they need to erect a special portable block-and-tackle hoist to take the measurements of the much larger 110-stone male.
Having recorded this bear's weight, next on the list is the jaw. With 42 teeth and a bite force that rivals the great white shark, the polar bear is not only the world's largest land predator, it is the wild's only fully carnivorous bear, with teeth perfectly designed to rip the flesh of seals apart.
While their primary prey are seals, polar bears have also been known to eat walrus and beluga whales, along with reindeer and birds.
The polar bear is a superb hunter  -  creeping up on its prey from behind, even covering their conspicuous black noses with their paws while hunting, to disguise themselves against the snow.


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4. Lengthy: The researcher measures the length of the male bear



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5. Hoisted: The bears is weighed with a special block and tackle

The bears can live off fat reserves for months at a time and have such a low body temperature (they overheat at more than 10C) that they are almost invisible to infrared cameras.
Clean and sharp, this bear's canine teeth are pristine. A small numerical tattoo is quickly branded in the mouth of the bear which will enable it to be identified in the future, before it is time to check his claws.
Short and stocky, the bear's claws are designed to dig into the ice and are scooped on the underside in order better to equip them to burrow deep into hardened ice.

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6. Big head: A skull measurement is taken


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7. Marked: The bear's lip is tattooed for identification

Once the final measurements are taken, a large identifying number is painted with temporary paint onto the bear's back, so that it will not be picked up again during the current survey. Then the team quickly pack up and move on to a safe spot.
Polar bear biologist Dr Steven Amstrup says tracking the bears is vital for their survival. Dr Amstrup hopes these pictures will help people to realise how special this species is and how much it needs to be protected.
Back on the ice field, the woozy, paintcovered and newly tattooed bear slowly rises to its feet. After a few tentative steps it is on its way, completely oblivious to the hazardous encounter that has just occurred.


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India brotherbear Offline
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From the Boone and Crockett Club Foundation - Bear record-size skulls. This book has some long lists but I will post only the top 4 of each.
Black bear - Score: 23 and 10/16 - Length: 14 and 12/16 - Width: 8 and 14/16 ... Score: 23 and 7/16 - Length: 14 and 8/16 - Width: 9 and 4/16 
Black bear - Score: 23 and 3/16 - Length: 13 and 15/16 - Width: 9 and 4/16 ... Score: 23 and 3/16 - Length: 14 and 9/16 - Width: 8 and 10/16. 
Grizzly - Score: 27 and 13/16 - Length: 17 and 4/16 - Width: 10 and 9/16 ... Score: 27 and 3/16 - Length: 16 and 3/16 - Width: 10 and 6/16.
Grizzly - Score: 27 and 2/16 - Length: 17 and 6/16 - Width: 9 and 12/16 ... Score: 27 and 2/16 - Length: 16 and 14/16 - Width: 10 and 4/16. 
Polar bear - Score: 29 and 15/16 - Length: 18 and 8/16 - Width: 11 and 7/16 ... Score: 29 and 1/16 - Length: 18 and 2/16 - Width: 10 and 15/16.
Polar bear - Score: 28 and 12/16 - Length: 17 and 13/16 - Width: 10 and 15/16 ... Score: 28 and 12/16 - Length: 17 and 11/16 - Width: 11 and 1/16. 
Alaskan brown bear - Score: 30 and 12/16 - Length: 17 and 15/16 - Width: 12 and 13/16 ... Score: 30 and 11/16 - Length: 18 and 10/16 - Width: 12 and 1/16.
Alaskan brown bear - Score: 30 and 9/16 - Length: 18 and 7/16 - Width: 12 and 2/16 ... Score: 30 and 8/16 - Length: 18 and 12/6 - Width: 11 and 12/16.
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United States Polar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 07-11-2016, 06:36 AM by Polar )

One of the polar bear's skulls seem to be greater in width than the grizzlies' given a near-equal length. Maybe we should re-question the idea that polar bears have a larger length/width ratio than other bears?

From my experience, the answer would still remain as yes, they do (2013 Polar Bear International trip). But according to this, it can differ.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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(07-11-2016, 06:24 AM)Polar Wrote: One of the polar bear's skulls seem to be greater in width than the grizzlies' given a near-equal length. Maybe we should re-question the idea that polar bears have a larger length/width ratio than other bears?

From my experience, the answer would still remain as yes, they do (2013 Polar Bear International trip). But according to this, it can differ.


The largest Polar bear got 5 inches fangs, but their skull remained more gracile compared to that of the Grizzly bear.
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