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On Arthur Dubs and the Infamous Guinness world record polar bear
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Article on Dubs  *This image is copyright of its original author http://www.mailtribune.com/article/20130.../306300334 DVD link of dubs and the infamous polar bear https://www.amazon.com/American-Wilderne...B00MRCRCRI  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author Obviously most of you are already familiar with this, just figured I'd post it here. 
"Some animals too heavy to lift have been estimated at 800kg." =roughly 1,764 pounds.
I have never said that a polar bear cannot top 2,000 pounds Pckts. And, I have never said that the famous mounted polar bear did not weigh 2,000+ pounds. I did state, however, that his weight has never been confirmed even though it is "accepted" by some. Who weighed the bear and on what scales? Not even his measurements can be verified, as a stuffed carcass can be manipulated. 
That is the exact problem I have with the Kotzebue specimen. I don't know how it was weighed and I don't know about his exact physical measurments (chest girth, limb girth, etc...).
(07-06-2016, 05:44 PM)Polar Wrote: That is the exact problem I have with the Kotzebue specimen. I don't know how it was weighed and I don't know about his exact physical measurments (chest girth, limb girth, etc...). We do know that this polar bear was a huge specimen and very likely weighed in the neighborhood of a full ton ( 2,000 pounds ) or better. Like I said, I have no doubts that 2,000 pound polar bears exist.
My thoughts on the information posted...
First, this *This image is copyright of its original author If the heaviest confirmed Bear for this excursion was 610kg and multiple bears were unable to be weighed since the helicopter couldn't lift them, I see the claim of 800kg as very reasonable and on the conservative side. A helicopters capabilities are well known and I'm sure they used a reasonable deduction to get to that estimate. In regards to Dubs and the claim of weighing equipment and measurements.. *This image is copyright of its original author We know the bear has been weighed, if it is accepted by Guinness book of world records, the weight must of been recorded for it to be published. We also see here that multiple bears have also been weighed that reach near that size as well. While the measurement of the stuffed bear is used, it obviously isn't the exact measurement but its still something. I'm sure the measurements and scale used are available somewhere but we may not have access to it. Do we hold all kodiaks to the same standard? "The greatest weight recorded for a Kodiak bear in the wild is 1656 lb 751 kg for a male shot at English Bay. Kodiak Island in 1894 by J C Tolman. The stretched skin (pegged to the side of a cabin on a frame and then weighted with rocks at the bottom edge for maximum effect) measured 13 ft 6in 4-12m from the tip of the nose to the root of the tail, and the hindfoot was 18in 46cm long (Phillips-Wolley. 1894)." Do we know how this bear was weighed, do we know its body dimensions? What about any other Kodiaks with in the claimed weight range? I see the same issue with big cats, the world record tiger and lion have no body dimensions and both were weighed on scales not designed for big cats but assumed to be correct since calibration was allegedly utilized. Do we simply deny them since we don't know these measurements? Do we claim DR. Habib's weights for Jai, Gabbar, Bittu, Choti Tara etc are unusable since they will not publish the body dimensions or results? My point is this, it is a bit of a cherry picking mentality to deny one weight if it doesn't meet a certain individuals standards, not that the individual doesn't have a point but in fairness, the individual isn't at liberty to deny it if they don't hold any experience in the subject being discussed. If Sunquist came out and said that he doesn't believe the world record lion or tiger meet the standards and explains his standpoint, that is one thing, but for us to claim it is another. This isn't an attack on ANY individual here, please don't take it as such, this is just stating my stance on the subject.
I'm not at all sure what you are attempting to prove pckts. The 1,653 pound grizzly is indeed a confirmed weight, as is the 1,541 pound polar bear. To argue that just because Guinness stated the 2,210 pound weight for the polar bear does not confirm the weight for scientific records. Guinness has also posted the record brown bear at 2,500 pounds for Goliath. Clyde has been often stated at 2,400 pounds. It could be that all of these weights are true; it is possible. But, I feel that we should not post any size or weight as "fact" that have not been confirmed.
Goliath is a captive bear, I am talking about wild bears.
And here it says goliath is 2000lbs not 2500lbs like you stated. Do you have a link to the Guinness world record claim you are speaking of?  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author And to my knowledge, the largest bear in captivity is 2,130lbs "The largest verified size for a captive Kodiak bear was for a specimen that lived at the Dakota Zoo in Bismarck, North Dakota. Nicknamed "Clyde", he weighed 966 kg (2,130 lb) when he died in June 1987 at the age of 22." "I'm not at all sure what you are attempting to prove pckts. The 1,653 pound grizzly is indeed a confirmed weight" I'm not '' attempting to prove anything" other than the fact that the polar bears weight shouldn't be discarded and that the man responsible for the claim is a very well known and experienced hunter with over 30 years experience. Also showing multiple other polar bears that have been weighed as well, bordering on the same weight as Dubs bear. Also, can you please show the "confirmation" of the grizzly, how it was weighed and body measurements, same requirement you are putting on the Polar bear.
According to zoo director Terry Lincoln, Clyde probably weighed close to 2400 lbs a year earlier He still had a fat layer of 9 inches when he died. http://shaggygod.proboards.com/
http://invorma.com/the-biggest-animals/ The largest living land predators are the Polar Bear (Ursus maritimus) and the kodiak bear, a Brownish Bear (Ursus arctos) subspecies. Because they have similar physical body sizes, it is not clear which is definitively bigger. In both species, shoulder elevation has been measured at more than 1.6 m (5.2 feet) and also overall length at as much as to 3.05 m (10.0 ft). The heaviest polar as well as brown bear weights recorded were respectively 1,003 kilograms (2,210 lb) and 1,135 kilograms (2,500 pound). *Yes, Guinness once listed Goliath at 2,500 pounds.
Ok, but that http://invorma.com/the-biggest-animals/ isn't a Guinness weight claim, the largest captive weight claim is Clyde at 2,130 lbs and that is in captivity not the wild.
Guinness lists the largest kodiak bear as "The largest Kodiak bear ever held in captivity was a male at Cheyenne Mountain Zoological Park. Colorado, USA which scaled 1670 lb 757 kg at the time of its death on 22 September 1955 (William Meeker, pers. comm.). Unfortunately nothing is known about the physical condition of this animal (or its nose to tail length), but it was probably 'cage-fat'. The bear was received at the zoo as a cub direct from Kodiak Island on 29 June 1940. 'Sam' and 'Erskine'. twin Kodiak bears at Chicago Zoological Park. Illinois. USA were also very large. Sam, the smaller of the two - he could reach food suspended 10 ft 6in 3-2m above the ground with his mouth - recorded a posthumous weight of 1412 lb 640kg, and Erskine weighed an estimated 1600 lb) 726kg at the time of his death in c1957 (Robert Bean, pers. comm.). Wood, L. G. 1983. The Guinness Book of Animal Facts and Feats. Sterling Pub Co Inc ." Then I guess it was revised to "This concludes Guiness related material on Kodiak bears. There are records dealing with Alaska Peninsula bear, grizzly bear, black bear, Kamchatka brown bear, and Polar bear but as we understand it; there has been revised updates to Guiness BoWR and whether or not there has been significant record changes from the 1983 records is unclear at this time. Visitors (feel free to register) are welcomed to update accordingly. As noted, we know (Guiness has recognized) the late Goliath (below) to be the record holder for largest captive 2000lb bear (U.a.middendorffi)."  *This image is copyright of its original author So there is no known information on any claim of 2,500lbs but there are multiple photos showing him to be 2,000lbs
Here's the thing, none of this matters. I doubt that Goliath was ever weighed. Clyde was weighed, but not until his health, and he was not at his heaviest; weighed after he had died ( 2, 136 pounds ). But, the only weights that have any true meaning are those which have been scientifically confirmed. In the wild, polar bears in general average heavier than Kodiak brown bears. This is, of course, due to a diet almost exclusively on blubber. Not even captive polar bears living the easy life in zoo's are as heavy as their wild brothers.
A brown bear is more likely to be heavier living in a zoo; easy meals and no hibernation. Now, what if a Kodiak bear were fed on a polar bear's diet his entire life... how heavy might he become? He could easily be bigger than Clyde or Goliath, or possibly any polar bear. But, size potential doesn't really matter does it. [b]I understand about captive animals Pckts. In the wild, as for confirmed weights, the heaviest polar bear weighed 1,541 pounds while the heaviest confirmed Kodiak bear weighed 1,653 pounds. This does not prove that Kodiak bears are bigger than polar bears. It does prove that the biggest brown bears are the polar bear's only real competition and that it is the polar bear's diet that makes him 'normally' the biggest. [/b]
Here’s Your World Record Grizzly Bear, All 27 and 1/16 Inches of Him
 *This image is copyright of its original author All images via Bowhunter.com *This image is copyright of its original author Posted by David Smith February 16, 2016  *This image is copyright of its original author The new world record grizzly bear came so close that archer Rodney Debias could smell the bear and hear him breathing. Rodney Debias of Windber, Pennsylvania took an Alaskan grizzly bear in 2009 that was officially recognized as the new Pope & Young world record earlier this year. Although an experienced and successful bowhunter, Debias’ dream of taking a grizzly bear with his bow eluded him for many years. Circumstances, however, were in his favor when in 2009 he was able to fly to Unalakleet, Alaska to pursue his dream. Although Debias and his guide, Don Stiles, saw the big bear two or three days into the hunt, it took eight full days of hard hunting, in nasty, icy conditions before Debias had his opportunity at the monster. Of that first glimpse of the record bruin, Debias recounted in a 2011 story for “Bowhunter” magazine, “Don spotted a beautiful blond bear 600 yards away, and I noticed another bear 100 yards below Blondie. Don guessed the blond at 7½ feet, the other at 7 feet. As we watched them, a huge chocolate bear ran between the two. He looked like a Mack Truck passing between two Honda Civics!”  *This image is copyright of its original author But after three more days without seeing any bear or even a track, Debias and Stiles were ready to give up on their plan. That’s the moment when “The Big Guy” appeared. The grizzly had suddenly appeared at just 17 yards away. The two men were exposed, with no cover, but had the wind in their faces as the bear kept moving in their direction. Debias recalled that at 10 yards, “Suddenly he stopped, nose in the air, nostrils flared. I could hear him draw a deep breath. He exhaled. I could smell him. He drew another breath, this time curling his lips outward. I was amazed at his size. He exhaled again. He knew something was up…He took two steps, stood straight up, and looked down on us.” Amazingly the bear did not detect the two men. Debias had his bow resting on his knee but dared not lift it to draw. The big bruin moved past the hunters as Debias waited for the bear to look the other way. At 29 yards he had his shot and sent an arrow through the bear’s chest. At 60 yards the grizzly dropped.  *This image is copyright of its original author After some time, confusion, and rule changes, Pope & Young scored the bear at 27 1/16 and crowned it the new World Record. Debias’ grizzly is also the largest grizzly bear taken by a hunter with any weapon. The bear beat the previous World Record grizzly score of 26 3/16 by almost a full inch. That bear was killed in 2004 by Dennis Dunn and was also taken in Unalakleet, Alaska. One of my favorite parts of Debias’ story is his endcap, where he gives special mention to the people he met and hunted with in Unalakleet, Alaska. It speaks to one of the reasons why hunters do what they do, and to the brotherhood or sisterhood of the larger hunting community. “As big as the bear was,” he says, “just as important to me was the time I’d spent with Don, Virgil and Eric Umphenour, William ‘Middy’ Johnson (whose grandfather was one of the original Mushers on the serum run to Nome, now known as the Iditarod), and especially the people of Unalakleet.” “When life has you down and you think there’s no good in the world, buy a plane ticket to Unalakleet and walk down the dirt street lined with humble houses. Strangers will invite you into their homes to enjoy their best fish and to share stories of their culture. In return, they expect only that you share stories of your own. The people of Unalakleet are the most wonderful, giving people I’ve ever met. Yes, I arrived wondering how anyone could live there. Now I wonder how anyone could leave.” http://www.wideopenspaces.com/new-world-...-gun-pics/
You keep saying this...
"the heaviest polar bear weighed 1,541 pounds while the heaviest confirmed Kodiak bear weighed 1,653 pounds. " But that is incorrect, you have multiple polar bears weighing 2000lbs plus and you still are unable to show me how the kodiak was weighed nor his body measurements, the same protocol you are asking for the polar bear you are refusing to accept are not being used for the kodiak bear you're accepting. You also don't know how a kodiak would respond to a strictly carnivorous diet, especially a blubber rich diet. Polar bears have traveled down a different evolutionary path and thus their adaptions will not turn into automatic advantages for another bear. The bears also have morphological differences and while they may be "similar" they certainly aren't the same.
Note that the 'Boone and Crockett Club' recognizes the 'Kodiak bear' which ( for hunting records ) includes the Alaskan brown bear or "peninsula grizzly" and they recognize all other American brown bears, which include all of the inland varieties as 'grizzlies'.
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