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Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
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Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
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  (08-24-2023, 03:11 AM)BA0701 Wrote: How long were the Mlowathis off in the east? Mr. T was accepted back into the fold after that extended separation. It wasn’t as long as Mohawk being away from his southern brothers but I’m 100% sure Mohawk lived with him for at least 5 years and it’s been another 5 years since he’s seen him so we won’t know unless it happens but there shouldn’t be a big fight to be honest 
Ppl gotta remember that both Mohawk and the lesser-maned Southern Avoca both have prides to protect. Albeit, Mohawk isn’t as territorial anymore, he’s still a pride male. Both males joining together would most likely only happen if they had both lost their territories and the bigger Southern Avoca had indeed passed. Even then, Mohawk is usually with his sons and a nomadic male would be a threat to them. If it come to choosing, he’s most likely siding with his sons not only cos of that built connection but it’s the safer option.
 (08-24-2023, 02:55 AM)KM600 Wrote:(08-24-2023, 02:41 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: It was disclosed in a group, information coming from a forest ranger, that the injuries to the southern avocado came from a possible confrontation with kambulas over buffalo carcass. Your brother hasn't been seen around. It must be the first time I've seen southern avocas separated like this, considering there weren't that many sightings. This is worrying and a very bad sign. in fact I highly doubt that the missing male was involved in this event, according to the ranger's report he was not seen nearby, apparently they have not been seen together for a week. So looking at this scenario I would say that something happened a time ago and that led the male avoca to wander alone and end up bumping into kambulas that inflicted these injuries on him. (08-24-2023, 03:37 AM)Gavskrr Wrote:(08-24-2023, 02:55 AM)KM600 Wrote:(08-24-2023, 02:41 AM)Gavskrr Wrote: It was disclosed in a group, information coming from a forest ranger, that the injuries to the southern avocado came from a possible confrontation with kambulas over buffalo carcass. Your brother hasn't been seen around. It must be the first time I've seen southern avocas separated like this, considering there weren't that many sightings. This is worrying and a very bad sign. If they have been apart for that long, that is disconcerting for sure. As has been mentioned, I have not seen those two apart, certainly not for that length of time. It is the bush, and sometimes things happen, but even if they had somehow gotten separated temporarily I would imagine them having gotten back together by now. 
@Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.
They are nothing but rivals at this point, and if they somehow link as nomads, it would be purely based of a "chance" as any other unrelated males. We love those "bloodline" ,"long lost brothers" stories, but that doesnt work like that in reality. With lions, if you are not part of the same group, you are rivals, regardless of you connection in the past and blood, especially as time passes. Mhangenis kiled her own aunt, who raised them, only 1,2 years after their link broked, Kambulas almost killed their Mhangeni mother in similar fashion and theres many more examples. Let alone lions who didnt interact for 5+ yrs.  (08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.we can't forget previous stories... There are possibilities that the Rollercoaster males could have fought or even killed one of their fathers (wsm). Also: Monwana males probably finished their father, BDM, after he was injuried by buffalo ofc those arent "brotherhood" situations, yet the males still spent about the same amount of time (or less) separated from their fathers as S. avoca have been separated from N. avoca (08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.Different situations those females had new cubs to protect get out of our territory or you’ll be killed BUT also interesting why didn’t the othawa male attack his natal pride when the he and the mhangenis attacked the othawas he didn’t hurt any of them he must’ve remembered them right and nobody can say what Mohawk will do if he sees his southern brother we do not know you do not know I do not know all I know is these lions do I fact have memories they remember things why did skorro jr go back to manyleti where he was born and he hadn’t been back there in 3 years or so he must’ve remembered. But who do not know what will happen shoot if Mohawk sees him from his recent track record he should run from him he ran from S8 right? 
Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them.
One thing is the memory or capability of remembering, and another thing is competition and the savage nature of the lions. It is like saying that the person who killed any or all of his/her parents/relatives has no memory or don't remember after not seen them in 20 years. We cannot measure their capability of recognizing/remembering/memory yet. How would you know if the lion that killed his father didn't remember him?? (08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them.In my opinion, there’s extremely rare situations where I genuinely believe lions do remember their parents. Not sure if any of u are familiar with the story of Sekekama and TornNose but they were originally in a coalition of 5 but 3 members left leaving these two to control the Marsh Pride in Botswana. They have several male offspring that have survived and become independent. Near the Marsh Pride there’s another territory called the North Pride which was abandoned by Sekekama and TornNose and was eventually controlled by their sons after some time. It was even reported that there had been instances where fights had taken place between the fathers and sons. I believe that if offspring stay around the same area they were originally born, then they must be familiar with their fathers as they essentially become their opponents, ofcourse in most cases, young males travel far to conquer territory and this would make it harder/impossible to remember their parents.  (08-24-2023, 04:37 AM)Tylermartin! Wrote:(08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs.Different situations those females had new cubs to protect get out of our territory or you’ll be killed BUT also interesting why didn’t the othawa male attack his natal pride when the he and the mhangenis attacked the othawas he didn’t hurt any of them he must’ve remembered them right and nobody can say what Mohawk will do if he sees his southern brother we do not know you do not know I do not know all I know is these lions do I fact have memories they remember things why did skorro jr go back to manyleti where he was born and he hadn’t been back there in 3 years or so he must’ve remembered. But who do not know what will happen shoot if Mohawk sees him from his recent track record he should run from him he ran from S8 right? The only incident I can recall like that with S8 was the one with Dark Mane Avoca.  (08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them. Good point. I think some may be viewing memory through the lens of humans. Though you just made a comparison to humans yourself. :) But I digress. My point just because a lion may remember a littermate ie a sister or brother (or parent) that doesn’t mean they will give that “family” member a pass because they are family. Depending on the situation they could respond as strongly as attacking and killing the former family member or they could give a warning but not initiate a full on attack. There is footage of lions recognizing their human companions after years of separation. So I think it’s very possible that the S.Avocas and Mohawk would recognize each other after years of no contact. However, that doesn’t mean a meeting would be drama free or be disastrous. Again, I think it would depend on the circumstances. (08-24-2023, 03:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Tylermartin! There is no way Mohawk and S.Avocas would recognize each other, last time they saw each other was 2016 (6 yrs ago) and they where only subs. Perfect example of this rivals analogy, would be when BYM and TYM had their scuffle with the white Birmingham male. In that instance BYM and the white male, while having been around each other their entire lives, were literally together in the same group of explorers just days before this happened. I believe in this case BYM took it somewhat easy on him, but regardless, a strong message was sent and received. (08-24-2023, 05:11 AM)WildLeonis Wrote:(08-24-2023, 04:38 AM)afortich Wrote: Attacking and killing their parents/relatives do not prove that they have no memory or remember them. What will Mohawk do tho he’s ran from every lion he’s seen since blondie died so him being aggressive to his older brother might be out of the question right? Didn’t he run from S8 and he hasn’t roared in how long? |
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