There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---
Our new member S Boultan needs community opinion on his project on animal conservation. Read his post and if possible help him by replying or sharing it to others who are qualified.

  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage

DARK MANE Offline
Banned
( This post was last modified: 01-28-2023, 06:58 PM by DARK MANE )

Mohawk, the last man standing on 26th January.
7 users Like DARK MANE's post
Reply

DARK MANE Offline
Banned

2/2 Southern avocas with plain camp pride.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
10 users Like DARK MANE's post
Reply

DE_66 Online
Member
**

(12-28-2022, 05:06 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Blondie and DM where not sired by same males, as each of them are copy of 2 Avoca/Giraffes, so its very unlikely they are littermates. 

Most similar out of all 5 Avocas are Mohawk and smaller maned S. Avoca, although S. Avoca is prob older, so unlikely they are littermates either.

A lioness can carry the offspring of different males in the same litter.  It's theoretically possible to have 4 cubs with 4 different fathers in the same litter.  DNA tests aren't done so it's unknown how often that happens.

Speaking of DNA tests, it's IMPOSSIBLE to determine paternity based solely on looks.  Especially when the potential fathers are closely related.  If unrelated lions still look so much alike that we often have to resort to whisker patterns to tell them apart, then there's no way we can determine with accuracy which brother/cousin is the father based on face shape, etc.  The results of that "method" are 100% speculation and nothing more.  There is nothing at all wrong with speculating.  It can be fun.  But one person's speculation carries no more weight than another's.
7 users Like DE_66's post
Reply

Mwk85 Offline
Senior Member
****

Mohawk. He wasn't with the pride when this was posted several hours ago but saw a recent comment from the uploader that stated he was headed towards them.

7 users Like Mwk85's post
Reply

DARK MANE Offline
Banned

Throwback image of dominant giraffe male, El Brutus, father of Sabi sands 5 avocas , in 2018

*This image is copyright of its original author
10 users Like DARK MANE's post
Reply

WildLeonis Away
Regular Member
***

I know there is no way to know who sired whom but when I first saw the above picture I thought it was a throwback of DM. They looked exactly alike.
4 users Like WildLeonis's post
Reply

lionuk Offline
Contributor
*****

Since the Black Dam males have same Avoca bloodline as the 5 other Avoca males, so can we use this thread to post future posts on them here?
3 users Like lionuk's post
Reply

Poland Potato Offline
Contributor
*****

(02-03-2023, 02:09 AM)lionuk Wrote: Since the Black Dam males have same Avoca bloodline as the 5 other Avoca males, so can we use this thread to post future posts on them here?

No, it doesn't make any sense and such doing would cause huge mess. That way you could bassicaly post any lion news in any thread as most lions around are a bit related one way or another. You could post for example Nkuchuma pride news in Birmingham pride thread as young Nkuchuma females being sired by Birmingham males are even more related to Birmingham pride than BDM are related to Avoca males.
4 users Like Potato's post
Reply

Tr1x24 Offline
Top Contributor
******

(02-03-2023, 02:09 AM)lionuk Wrote: Since the Black Dam males have same Avoca bloodline as the 5 other Avoca males, so can we use this thread to post future posts on them here?

Their father has no connections to Avoca pride, Old Avoca/Giraffes come from Giraffe pride, first 2 oldest takeover Avoca pride, they where called 2 Avoca males, later 4 younger Giraffe followed and joined them, but not father of BDM's, he was 2 yrs younger then those 4, he never followed his brothers to Avoca pride, he stayed with natal pride a bit longer and eventually went his own way alone.

I mean they share same bloodline thru their grandfathers, old Giraffe/Ross males, but father of BDM's has no connections with Avoca pride and name.
2 users Like Tr1x24's post
Reply

United States SMK350 Offline
Member
**

I think they mean the same giraffe male linage. 


It would make sense to have a page for the six black dam males. Seems like a far more impactful group of males than say .. the Gijimas?
1 user Likes SMK350's post
Reply

United States BA0701 Offline
Super Moderator
******

(02-03-2023, 04:05 AM)SMK350 Wrote: I think they mean the same giraffe male linage. 


It would make sense to have a page for the six black dam males. Seems like a far more impactful group of males than say .. the Gijimas?

BDMs do not fully hold a territory, nor are they dominant over a pride, which is typically the criteria for their own thread. Gijimas hold both, including the possibility they have fathered cubs, not to mention the damage they caused N'was on their way through, so even in that regard I'd say they have also been more impactful as well. BDMs, Mongawanes, PCMs didn't get their own thread either, until they held both territory and were dominant over some of the Nkuhumas.
4 users Like BA0701's post
Reply

Duco Ndona Offline
Contributor
*****

It wouldnt be the first time a much hyped up coalition fizzled out into nothing or ends up splitting in two. . 
It also doesnt matter much if they end up being impactfull in an area we get little to no updates from. 

Best to wait and see right now.
2 users Like Duco Ndona's post
Reply

Tr1x24 Offline
Top Contributor
******
( This post was last modified: 02-03-2023, 12:44 PM by Tr1x24 )

(02-03-2023, 04:05 AM)SMK350 Wrote: I think they mean the same giraffe male linage. 


It would make sense to have a page for the six black dam males. Seems like a far more impactful group of males than say .. the Gijimas?

New threads are usually made for coalitions and prides in Sabi Sands, as updates on them are regular and are most popular.

If we start making new separate threads for every coalition and pride in Timbavati, Manyeleti and Kruger, that would be a big mess.

If 2 BDM's become territorial in Sabi Sands, they will prob get their own thread, where we can post content of their northern brothers aswell.
3 users Like Tr1x24's post
Reply

United States SMK350 Offline
Member
**
( This post was last modified: 02-04-2023, 02:55 AM by SMK350 )

I was just trying to provide support to @lionuk because they obviously have an interest in following the BDMs and I think that’s great that more and more people are interested in lions outside of Sabi sands. 

  I’m sure in this day and age people know how to find the information they need on basically any lion  so it’s not a big deal.
2 users Like SMK350's post
Reply

1ofCourage Offline
Regular Member
***

Were Dark Mane Avoca and the Young Birmingham male of the Mongawane coalition related? I just noticed that they look a lot alike.
4 users Like 1ofCourage's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
3 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB