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Poll: Do you support lion translocation from Gir to Kuno Palpur?
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Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project

United States Siegfried Online
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#1
( This post was last modified: 12-07-2018, 05:30 PM by Rishi )

This ought to wake things up a bit.....

http://www.indiawest.com/blogs/article_7...f887a.html
 
Mod Edit: Poll added by @Sanju's request:
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United States Pckts Online
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#2

They need to just let things occur naturally. Its most likely going to be bad news for any male lions looking to expand territory since Asiatic lions don't form large prides and even coalitions are rare between males. On top of the fact that asiatic lions are smaller, unless they form prides or coalitions on a larger scale to cope with the larger Tiger, I think both should be able to coexist fine. Like they have done for years. 

T38 I believe was driven out and searching for a new territory if my memory serves. 
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United States Siegfried Online
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#3

If the lions can make it long enough to settle in, I think they will generally try to avoid each other.
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United States Pckts Online
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#4

Agreed, they both prefer different terrain and habitat. 
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United States Siegfried Online
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#5

Was T38 driven out specifically to further the project?
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United States chaos Offline
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#6
( This post was last modified: 11-30-2014, 07:35 PM by chaos )

(11-29-2014, 11:27 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: They need to just let things occur naturally. Its most likely going to be bad news for any male lions looking to expand territory since Asiatic lions don't form large prides and even coalitions are rare between males. On top of the fact that asiatic lions are smaller, unless they form prides or coalitions on a larger scale to cope with the larger Tiger, I think both should be able to coexist fine. Like they have done for years. 

T38 I believe was driven out and searching for a new territory if my memory serves. 

 


There is also a great deal of concern for the tigers well-being~~

Double edged sword: Both the tiger and the lion population would be affectedThe NGO claims that the prey base of Kuno is limited, and is not sufficient even for the lions that are to be shifted. So, there would be intense competition between the lions and tigers, straying from Ranthambore, for the same prey. However, it is not just the relocated lions that would be at a disadvantage, as the tigers in Ranthambore could be equally impacted. As competition for prey increases, the lions may venture out of Kuno in search of food and enter Ranthambore through the shared corridor. This would then reduce the prey base of the tigers. Not only that, lions may even attack and kill tigers. These factors could have a serious implications for the famous tigers in Ranthambore National Park, as their population might shrink. The NGO is therefore trying to convince the court to reconsider its decision to allow relocation oflions to Kuno.
 
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United States chaos Offline
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#7

The loss of numbers in either population is intolerable. I genuinely hope they reconsider.
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United States Pckts Online
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#8
( This post was last modified: 11-30-2014, 10:38 PM by Pckts )

I read the article chaos, the authors opinion is that the Lion(S) would be a threat to a Tiger.
But like I stated, Asiatic Lions don't form large prides, Males are usually Solo, they prefer different habitat and are adapted to so. So I doubt there is any threat to a Tiger from a small family of 2-3 lioness or a lone Male Lion.

Lions are not as adapted to Indian terrain, hence why they are smaller, shorter manes and have smaller prides. 
They may not ever be native and be completely inbred, but thats a different debate. Tigers on the other hand are specifically designed for it and reach their maximum size there.

The author also speaks of prey decline cuased by two predators hunting the same animal, but Nature makes sure it produces far more prey than predator. If prey declines, predators decline faster.
If prey doesn't support enough for both, it will be the Pride hunter that suffers the most. Prides will shrink even smaller. But on the flip side, if both can survive, it could mean great things for the idea that humans are not hunting and poaching as much.

Lastly, does any body know anything about the author?
"Anshul is a wildlife enthusiast, who loves to wander around different wildlife destinations of India. At the same time, he has got a command over writing and thus, he pens down and shares his experience with the world"
As you can see, the author is not a actual biologist so his opinion is nothing more than speculation without any facts behind it.



@Siegfried, T38 was driven out by a male. (I believe) He traveled a long way which Tigers are known to do, if this is the same tiger I am thinking of.
They have been debating this shift for ever, nothing is going to get done. Its always the same story, this is the first author I have read that thought the lions could pose a threat to the tigers though. Most think the opposite since Valmik released African Lions (3 pairs) in the wild and 2 became cattle killers and the other male was killed by a Tiger. Tigers where always seen circling the enclosure trying to investigate the foreign roars coming from the 3 mile wild enclosure the lions where kept in until they acclimated to the habitat. 

Unless Lions can form prides, they aren't going to pose a ral threat to a Wild Tiger which is larger and better built for the terrain. Not trying to start a debate, that is simply a fact. But a pride of lions is a real threat, that is for sure. But Ranthambhore doesn't support a pride style of animal, jungle hunting is very different than Plain hunting. Thats why Lions form such small prides in the Gir. 
 
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United States chaos Offline
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#9
( This post was last modified: 11-30-2014, 11:42 PM by chaos )

~~Lions are not as adapted to Indian terrain, hence why they are smaller, shorter manes and have smaller prides.

If thats the case, then why are they called "Indian lions" ? They've only been there for thousands of years. 
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United States Pckts Online
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#10
( This post was last modified: 12-01-2014, 12:48 AM by Pckts )

What?
They are asiatic lions, and they are'nt sure how long they have been in India for, Many believe they are foreign to India brought to hunt and as gifts from Alexander and others.
I also tend to believe that as well.

You do realize that many intruduced animals can survive in foreign lands. Some do better and some do worse than their original home, has happened all over the world.
Facts are, Asiatic Lions are smaller, they have a smaller mane, the live in smaller prides. compared to African.
Are you trying to say that is not true Chaos?
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United States chaos Offline
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#11

Ahem...They didn't arrive yesterday, and outside of Africa, they live exclusively in India.
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United States Pckts Online
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#12

So, whats your point?
They also didn't arrive 1000s of years ago like you claimed, most likely.

They also are smaller, shorter maned and smaller prides compared to africans. So they obviously are NOT as adapted to reach their potential in India,
Like I already stated.
So what are you tying to say?
 
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United States chaos Offline
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#13
( This post was last modified: 12-02-2014, 12:17 AM by chaos )

(12-01-2014, 11:56 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: So, whats your point?
They also didn't arrive 1000s of years ago like you claimed, most likely.

They also are smaller, shorter maned and smaller prides compared to africans. So they obviously are NOT as adapted to reach their potential in India,
Like I already stated.
So what are you tying to say?
 

 

Geez,
You can't figure it out yourself? You claimed they're not as dapted to the Indian terrain. Oh really?
They didn't just arrive, now did they. Thats the most simplistic explanation I will offer. Honestly, I
have neither the time nor the desire to go in circles with you over nonsense. You made a statement,
and I responded. Lets leave it at that. Nothing earthshattering about it

 
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United States chaos Offline
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#14

The tone of my last post seems a bit harsh. For that I do apologize, that's not my intent.
 
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United States Pckts Online
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#15
( This post was last modified: 12-02-2014, 12:34 AM by Pckts )

If they are physically smaller and weaker in ever standard that makes a lion a lion, then they are not as adapted to reach their prime.

So just because a animal is brought to another country and they survive there it doesn't mean they are as adapted to live there.
Like I said, tons of animals survive in foreign countries, some survive more successfully and some don't.
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