Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos

[Vinay]

(04-29-2017, 12:38 AM)Garfield Wrote:

(04-28-2017, 11:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Garfield 
African lions are larger, close in dimensions but much thicker. I've spoke to numerous people who've seen both and they all say the same.
The mane could play a role in that though.

What about the arms though, are the Asiatic lion's arms stronger or thicker, African's are longer right?

Yup,Asiatic lions have strong and thick arms.African lions mostly run-down the prey, longer legs help them Vs Asiatic lions hunt like normal cats.

If Barbary lions really exists they are nothing but Asiatic lions, as far as 'less-mane' in Indian/Gir lions there are two possibilities

1.All Big-Mane Asiatic lions are hunted in the past.
2.In Cold they grow large mane
3.Both Reply

[Rishi]

Some were tranq.ed for rescue or treatment or collaring..Others died from accidents & mishaps. These might help make guesstimate on their size...

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[Garfield]

(04-30-2017, 12:25 PM)Vinay Wrote:

(04-29-2017, 12:38 AM)Garfield Wrote:

(04-28-2017, 11:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Garfield 
African lions are larger, close in dimensions but much thicker. I've spoke to numerous people who've seen both and they all say the same.
The mane could play a role in that though.

What about the arms though, are the Asiatic lion's arms stronger or thicker, African's are longer right?

Yup,Asiatic lions have strong and thick arms.African lions mostly run-down the prey, longer legs help them Vs Asiatic lions hunt like normal cats.

If Barbary lions really exists they are nothing but Asiatic lions, as far as 'less-mane' in Indian/Gir lions there are two possibilities

1.All Big-Mane Asiatic lions are hunted in the past.
2.In Cold they grow large mane
3.Both

You mean the forearms right, becaz I mean the African lions have to have the biggest shoulders, just too many seem so huge there. Reply

[Rishi]

(Apologies for bombarding this thread in such manner...)

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[Pantherinae]

@Rishi keep posting I'm sure everyone loves it. 
Asiatic lions are by many me included very underrated, it wasn't until 3-4 years ago when I wisited an animal park in Sweeden called Parken Zoo I really could see how massive they where. I have been arround and working with an 250-260 kg African male lion. And this Asiatic male was every bit as big framing vise. An unbelievable animal. When he died of old age he weighed 191,5 kg. They said the zoo's veterinarian thought and estimated him to be arround 250 kg in his prime, and his female weighed and confirmed at 180 kg, the new male who's still young weighed 180 kg last summer. 

Here is a picture and a video of the old male. 

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[Rishi]

INDIAN paintings of biodiversity...

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..& lion hunt.

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Lions shared the Northern Indian great plains with water-buffaloes & rhinos...

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Captivity..

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Lion was the Mughal sigil & cows were symbolism of prosperity..both make multiple appearances in their miniature paintings...

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Imperial "hunts"...

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[Spalea]

@Rishi:

About #285: these paintings are very instructiv ! The indian artists showed the asiatic lions as being able to fight the elephants as the tigers are. Were there some big lion huntings as they were tiger huntings (with elephants, sherpas, armed men on foot and so on) ? We could believe by seeing these paintings that the lion was depicted as being an adversary, a game, as "prestigious" as the tiger.

I only ask a question... The artists were and are the witness of their times. Reply

[GrizzlyClaws]

(05-02-2017, 10:14 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Rishi:

About #285: these paintings are very instructiv ! The indian artists showed the asiatic lions as being able to fight the elephants as the tigers are. Were there some big lion huntings as they were tiger huntings (with elephants, sherpas, armed men on foot and so on) ? We could believe by seeing these paintings that the lion was depicted as being an adversary, a game, as "prestigious" as the tiger.

I only ask a question... The artists were and are the witness of their times.

Also, the Indian lions are not representative for the entire Asiatic lions population in the history.

We don't really know how the other Asiatic lion populations did behave. Consider that the entire population of the African lions consist some huge diversity, them same rule might apply for the historical Asiatic lions. Reply

[chaos]

Some interesting depictions illustrated in these paintings. Reply

[Garfield]

(05-02-2017, 12:25 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: @Rishi keep posting I'm sure everyone loves it. 
Asiatic lions are by many me included very underrated, it wasn't until 3-4 years ago when I wisited an animal park in Sweeden called Parken Zoo I really could see how massive they where. I have been arround and working with an 250-260 kg African male lion. And this Asiatic male was every bit as big framing vise. An unbelievable animal. When he died of old age he weighed 191,5 kg. They said the zoo's veterinarian thought and estimated him to be arround 250 kg in his prime, and his female weighed and confirmed at 180 kg, the new male who's still young weighed 180 kg last summer. 

Here is a picture and a video of the old male. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

That lion looks pretty strong, I agree I was typing in bulky and Asiatic lion, and I ran into stuff on some other sites, I think it is possible the Asiatic lion in its prime as a species may have been pretty strongly built or bulky being the word.  On this site it says a hunter that killed an Asiatic lion in 1840 thought the thing was bulkier than any tiger he'd killed before.  So that's considerable, and if Barbary's are related to Asiatic lions then maybe they were also built heavier. 

Now for the Lion of Kattywar or central Gezerat. In the B. S. M. for July, 1840, is a record of one there slain, of which we read : -——“ This Lion was 9 feet, with flowing mane, and altogether much more bulky than any Tiger I have killed

lion more bulky tiger&f=false[/b]


A possible Barbary or Cape lion, the keeper says its heavier built and more muscular than his other lions, with a darker mane and coat.  Looks pretty strong to me. 

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[Rishi]

Check out these two works...

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I think tigers & lions might have gone a step little further than mutual cohabitation at some point in time!!!..      

(People must have seen these..How else does one explain the similar looks & stature & correct relative size w.r.t humans in two different paintings of different times from two different regions of India??!!!) Reply

[Garfield]

(05-03-2017, 09:03 AM)Rishi Wrote: Check out these two works...

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I think tigers & lions might have gone a step little further than mutual cohabitation at some point in time!!!..      

(People must have seen these..How else does one explain the similar looks & stature & correct relative size w.r.t humans in two different paintings of different times from two different regions of India??!!!)

That's pretty interesting, I just ran into this, not only was there dark coated lions called black lions killed in Kattywar India which the same descriptions were given to some dark Barbary's in north Africa, but there was also a description of a manned tiger cat seen on lake Manasarowara at Tibet.  Could that be mixed species, I don't know.  

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https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA221&...er&f=false Reply

[Spalea]

@GrizzlyClaws :

About #287: clearly agree with you... We don't know directly how asiatic lions behave, within their diversity. There aren't written accounts about asiatic lions during the past centuries. But as concerns the artists and the paintings they realized about lion huntings, they did never painted "freely" without proof, but helped by oral descriptions, narratives. Thus we can perhaps, probably, conclude that lions benefited from a similar reputation to the tiger's one in terms of strength and bravery.

I don't like big-game hunting at all. Of any animal on Earth. But here, these paintings are projecting a popular vision about an almost extinct anima specy, and we enjoy only that in order to know how they were perceived. The extant asiatic lions being only a relic of what they were, they were almost eradicated (in a much more open living biotop, their gun hunting was unlucky much more easy than in the case of the tiger living in a much more dense jungle) .

We know too, thank to these paintings, they hunted big bovids (and perhaps not only bovid cattle). Reply

[Garfield]

(05-03-2017, 10:18 AM)Spalea Wrote: @GrizzlyClaws :

About #287: clearly agree with you... We don't know directly how asiatic lions behave, within their diversity. There aren't written accounts about asiatic lions during the past centuries. But as concerns the artists and the paintings they realized about lion huntings, they did never painted "freely" without proof, but helped by oral descriptions, narratives. Thus we can perhaps, probably, conclude that lions benefited from a similar reputation to the tiger's one in terms of strength and bravery.

I don't like big-game hunting at all. Of any animal on Earth. But here, these paintings are projecting a popular vision about an almost extinct anima specy, and we enjoy only that in order to know how they were perceived. The extant asiatic lions being only a relic of what they were, they were almost eradicated (in a much more open living biotop, their gun hunting was unlucky much more easy than in the case of  the tiger living in a much more dense jungle) .

We know too, thank to these paintings, they hunted big bovids (and perhaps not only bovid cattle).

I think like you guys were saying it can vary depending upon what turfs and groups the lions live in, in that link I found the hunter said the lions in Kattywar were more aggressive than any lion he had shot.  But as far as bravery for sure lions are known by many to be a bolder cat, the tiger is more of a secretive stealth ninja who doesn't like getting his hands dirty unless its an easy picking. Reply

[Rishi]

@Spalea About #292..as you saw in #285 MOST Indian lions 500 years ago looked EXACTLY like they do today. 

@GrizzlyClaws About #287 Persian depictions of lion looks kinda like Indian ones with belly & post flank mane...

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That mane starts reducing towards Anatolia...

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..& Mesopotamia

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& mediterranean Turkey.

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& Arabian Peninsula.

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Again in Syria & Iraq (snows in the North), the art & architecture depicts  more Barbary-like looks. 

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Romans acquired lions from all over Middle-East. Persia, Arabia, Syria, Judaea, Mesopotamia....North Africa.
And their mosaics showed it...

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