Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos

[Spalea]

From the book "Simba, vie et mœurs du lion" * by C.A.W Guggisberg, Payot edition: "In 1908 it seems they were only 13 lions in the Gir forest. Strictly protected, their number growed up little by little" (I translate the french version...). Page 52...

*: "Simba, lion's  life and behaviour" Reply

[Ngala]

Many thanks @Spalea , the effects of consanguinity is just what i was thinking. Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 11:25 AM)Spalea Wrote: From the book "Simba, vie et mœurs du lion" * by C.A.W Guggisberg, Payot edition: "In 1908 it seems they were only 13 lions in the Gir forest. Strictly protected, their number growed up little by little" (I translate the french version...). Page 52...

*: "Simba, lion's  life and behaviour"

Govt numbers from 1963 on wards,don't know how trust worthy numbers (source) before that but 13 in 1908 to 285 in 1963 is highly impossible.Yup, even govt numbers are also not 100% true, they are just estimates, expect 0-20% error.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Spalea]

(11-10-2016, 02:59 PM)Vinay Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:25 AM)Spalea Wrote: From the book "Simba, vie et mœurs du lion" * by C.A.W Guggisberg, Payot edition: "In 1908 it seems they were only 13 lions in the Gir forest. Strictly protected, their number growed up little by little" (I translate the french version...). Page 52...

*: "Simba, lion's  life and behaviour"

Govt numbers from 1963 on wards,don't know how trust worthy numbers (source) before that but 13 in 1908 to 285 in 1963 is highly impossible.Yup, even govt numbers are also not 100% true, they are just estimates, expect 0-20% error.

*This image is copyright of its original author

If you can read till the third paragraph end:

http://www.iloveindia.com/wildlife/india...story.html

According to this account, there were only a twenty lions in 1913. Reply

[Spalea]

@Vinay


From an other source:

http://conservingtigers.blogspot.ch/p/ar...rking.html

I reproduce one paragraph:


A STORY OF OPTIMISM: THE ASIATIC LION

The Lion, which is commonly thought only to be native to Africa also roams the Gir forest of Gujarat, India. The Asiatic lion (slightly smaller than it's African brother) once extended from the Mediterranean to Northeast India. They were hunted to extinction in most of its range, with only a few remaining in India by the 1900's. In 1910, the population of Asiatic lions dropped to 10 individuals restricted to the Gir forest in Gujarat. By that point, a group of royal British hunters who had previously hunted these lions, had a change of heart and decided to embark on an effort to save the Asiatic lion. They turned the Gir forest into a wildlife sanctuary and strictly prohibited further hunting of the lions. Gir Forest is still a wildlife sanctuary and is now home to about 500 Asiatic lions and growing, all derived from a population of 10 lions in 1910. Though this group of lions is highly inbred, it is truly remarkable how effective methods of conservation brought the Asiatic lion back from the brink of extinction. The Gir Forest in India is the only place left in the world where the Asiatic lion can be found in the wild.


Is it enough ? Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 03:21 PM)Spalea Wrote: If you can read till the third paragraph end:

http://www.iloveindia.com/wildlife/india...story.html

According to this account, there were only a twenty lions in 1913.

Your source says

Thereafter, intense efforts were taken to control this dwindling population. The first organized census on the lion population in Gir was carried out in 1936. It revealed the number of lions to be around 287. 

==========================

Hope you know the difference b/w organized census vs guess numbers. 

BTW i'm not blaming you, i know you are not born in 1910 and not counted Asiatic lions, you also got this figure (12) from some other source which is doubtful.   Reply

[Spalea]

An other link relating in detail the recent story of the asiatic lion. Here too, it is said that only a dozen of lions stayed alive in the Gir forest in 1910:

http://www.africahunting.com/threads/asiatic-lion.3685/

They spoke about the genetic weakness of this lions population... I reproduce:

Stephen O'Brien, a geneticist, had suggested that "If you do a DNA fingerprint, Asiatic lions actually would look like identical twins... because they descend from as few as a dozen individuals that was all left at the turn of the 20th century. This makes them especially vulnerable to diseases, and causes 70% to 80% of sperm to be deformed - a ratio that can lead to infertility when lions are further inbred in captivity.

And so on. Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 03:39 PM)Spalea Wrote: An other link relating in detail the recent story of the asiatic lion. Here too, it is said that only a dozen of lions stayed alive in the Gir forest in 1910:

http://www.africahunting.com/threads/asiatic-lion.3685/

They spoke about the genetic weakness of this lions population... I reproduce:

Stephen O'Brien, a geneticist, had suggested that "If you do a DNA fingerprint, Asiatic lions actually would look like identical twins... because they descend from as few as a dozen individuals that was all left at the turn of the 20th century. This makes them especially vulnerable to diseases, and causes 70% to 80% of sperm to be deformed - a ratio that can lead to infertility when lions are further inbred in captivity.

And so on.

Your source 

The wild population of more than 200 Asiatic Lions has been said to be derived from just 13 individuals, and thus was widely thought to be highly inbred. However, this low figure, quoted from 1910, may have been publicised to discourage lion hunting. Hunting of lions was a popular sport with the British Colonialists and Indian Royalty, and all other lions in India had been exterminated by then. Census data from the time indicates the population was probably closer to 100.  Reply

[Spalea]

@Vinaj:

I'm quoting some sources, you're only interpreting them as being probably false... Stalemate.

Neither you nor I were born in 1910. I also think, as you do, that only a dozen of lions it's very few. But why not to believe these people who decided to stop the intensive hunt whose lions were subject ? On the other hand, it is quite obvious that the asiatic lion situation is not healthy, that their population is very vulnerable and fragile.

Let us the other forumers, here, to decide what is wrong or what is false...

From my part, I stop here... Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 04:06 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Vinaj:

I'm quoting some sources, you're only interpreting them as being probably false... Stalemate.

Neither you nor I were born in 1910. I also think, as you do, that only a dozen of lions it's very few. But why not to believe these people who decided to stop the intensive hunt whose lions were subject ? On the other hand, it is quite obvious that the asiatic lion situation is not healthy, that their population is very vulnerable and fragile.

Let us the other forumers, here, to decide what is wrong or what is false...

This is the problem ....... You already DECIDED Asiatic lions are not healthy,their population is very vulnerable and fragile based on stupid SCIENTISTS theory they all evolved from a dozen!! 
Already said PAST is PAST .....  IF 523+ LIONS are in-breed animals then all Siberian and Sumatran Tigers and West African lions are also in-breed which are lesser than 500. 
according to your FACTS as you believes 523 animals still in-breed. 

From my part, I stop here... Reply

[Spalea]

@Vinaj:

Everybody, except you, in this forum would say that the asiatic lions population is not an healthy one. Descending from a dozen individuals how could it be otherwise ? More, all the attempts, efforts to make them living in an other place of India have been in vain...

This discussion started when Nyala noted, judisciously, that some asiatic lions had a slight squint.

In fact you speak as you were of one of these indian administrators who refuses to admit this reality. Yes, they are 523 now, but in a too small territory according to this number. If an epidemic broke out, they could be all helled. Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 07:32 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Vinaj:

Everybody, except you, in this forum would say that the asiatic lions population is not an healthy one. Descending from a dozen individuals how could it be otherwise ? More, all the attempts, efforts to make them living in an other place of India have been in vain...

This discussion started when Nyala noted, judisciously, that some asiatic lions had a slight squint.

In fact you speak as you were of one of these indian administrators who refuses to admit this reality. Yes, they are 523 now, but in a too small territory according to this number. If an epidemic broke out, they could be all helled.

Epidemic broke out ........... all extinct in few years............. 523 still in-breed.... Indians are cruel and killing them .... these are West/west funded Indian NGO's PROPAGANDA.  

Asiatic lions are very SOUND and DOUBLE STRONG compared to African lions for me ... Yes, many asiatic look scratches on their faces as they frequently BATTLE with each other that is their specialty 'survival the fittest'.   Reply

[Pckts]

Asiatic lions are actually doing well now, they are expanding their habitat on their own since political buericrats are getting in the way of reintroducing them elsewhere.
But their population was very bottlenecked just like amurs. 
I assume @Vinay is attacking Valmik's theory as well, correct?
His theory is one of his own, it isn't proven correct or incorrect. Just because he has a theory doesn't mean it's "stupid," his theory comes from years of educating himself on that exact subject, you don't have to agree with it but it's  not something you can dismiss so easily.

Everyone I've spoken with who have seen asiatics compared to Africans in person all say African lions are larger, btw. Reply

[Vinay]

(11-10-2016, 08:23 PM)Pckts Wrote: Asiatic lions are actually doing well now, they are expanding their habitat on their own since political buericrats are getting in the way of reintroducing them elsewhere.
But their population was very bottlenecked just like amurs. 
I assume @Vinay is attacking Valmik's theory as well, correct?
His theory is one of his own, it isn't proven correct or incorrect. Just because he has a theory doesn't mean it's "stupid," his theory comes from years of educating himself on that exact subject, you don't have to agree with it but it's  not something you can dismiss so easily.

Everyone I've spoken too that has seen asiatics compared to Africans all say African lions are larger, btw.

Do you know our environmental minister once said 'India is ready to DONATE wild bengal tigers if any one interested' ... Guess what, no body responded except Combodia then they also mum about this ... every one knew 222 kg CAT is not an easy thing.
Still OFFER is open mark my words 'no county will take these wild tigers ever' they know consequences 222 kg wild cat. 

Like that Asiatic lions are Gujarat property if they want to share with others or not that is their internal matter... stay away or take some wild bengals 

PS: Asiatic lions avg 175kg ... African avg 185kg,matter close. Reply

[Pckts]

African's average are probably a bit higher than the 185kg mark you claimed but that doesn't matter, they're larger in weight and appearance. You said asiatic were "double the strength" and I was just telling you that was incorrect which you just agreed upon.


Gujarat is making a huge mistake if they think they "own wildlife."
The lions will leave on their own which they are doing and/or they miss out on possible benefits that come with negotiations. If you care about a species you give it the opportunity to grow. Reply