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American Lion (Panthera atrox)

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#76

(12-31-2018, 11:57 PM)Spalea Wrote: @epaiva, @Smilodon-Rex @Tigerlover @GuateGojira : happy new year !!! In advance I welcome your future posts !

Happy New year to you to @Spalea, I whish the best to all of you. Like
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#77

(12-31-2018, 11:57 PM)Spalea Wrote: @epaiva, @Smilodon-Rex @Tigerlover @GuateGojira : happy new year !!! In advance I welcome your future posts !
Happy New Year my Friend @Spalea and to you all @tigerluver @GuateGojira and @Smilodon-Rex hope 2019 will be a very good one for all
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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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#78

(12-31-2018, 11:57 PM)Spalea Wrote: @epaiva, @Smilodon-Rex @Tigerlover @GuateGojira : happy new year !!! In advance I welcome your future posts !
 Sorry, I'm late now, happy new year folks !!!  thanks to your good wishes !!!!
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#79
( This post was last modified: 01-07-2019, 03:36 AM by epaiva )

American Lion found in Ichetucknee, Florida displayed in Florida Museum of Natural History in Gainesville.
Book Fossiling in Florida (Mark Renz)

*This image is copyright of its original author
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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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#80

https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._Texas_USA
 @Tigerlover , can you download the document from this website like?
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United States tigerluver Offline
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#81

(01-11-2019, 08:52 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote: https://www.researchgate.net/publication..._Texas_USA
 @Tigerlover , can you download the document from this website like?



*This image is copyright of its original author
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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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#82


*This image is copyright of its original author

 @GrizzlyClaws ,  @Tigerlover
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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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#83

The American Lion is not extinct.

You might not believe it, but my job as a park ranger in Alaska is usually quite dull. A lot of campers report strange encounters in the woods. Some claim to see things at night. Some hear things in the woods. There have been thousands of reports regarding supposedly suspicious incidents during my tenure. I have investigated a lot myself. But they always ended in reasonable explanations. From a bear shitting in the woods, to a pair of particularly passionate squirrels, there is always a reasonable explanation.
By now, you might have checked the Wikipedia page for the American Lion.
You might already know that it stood up to eight feet tall. You might know that it was 25% larger than the modern lion. You might know that it weighed half a ton, bore claws arguably deadlier than the saber-tooth, and traveled territory throughout the United States. You might even know that it delayed the migration of human beings across the Bering Sea. Because it hunted us.
This is all common knowledge. No bullshit. It’s available to anyone willing to seek it. Remains of the animal were identified via mitochondrial DNA in the La Brea Tar Pits, which are located in modern day Los Angeles. Cave markings confirmed that they could stretch up to twelve feet tall on their hind legs. Modern estimates insist they were wiped from existence approximately 11,000 years ago. Probably by us.
But there is one detail unavailable online.
The American lion did not go extinct. I encountered one two years ago.

It was a Saturday evening. My partner and I were stuck in the Ranger cabin for an overnight shift. We hoped nobody would call. A night without calls meant a night full of movies. RJ and I usually spent our time on the job watching Jurassic Park, or Godfather, or something similar. Plus, the snow storm in town was expected to pick up momentum throughout the evening. Neither of us wanted to go outside and test it.
Murphy’s Law won out in the end. The phone rang shortly after three in the morning. RJ groaned, walked over, and answered like it were any other loon on a Tuesday. Then his dark features turned white as a ghost.
“Slow down. Slow down. Ma'am, what is your location?”
My worker gestured to me wildly. Two fingers out and a thumb up. Time to load the guns. I scanned the cabin desperately for the keys and tried to get everything ready while RJ grabbed our jackets and swept out the door. White sheets of ice whipped at our uncovered faces from all directions as soon as it opened.
“We are heading over there now. Apply pressure to the wound.” He turned to me and tried to mute the receiver as I hopped inside and turned the keys in the ignition of our four-wheel drive. “Fuck, Matt, we’re going to need an ambulance.”
RJ barked the location to me like a drill Sergeant while he tried to keep the woman on the phone. I could hear her frantic cries through the receiver. It did not sound good.
“He’s bleeding. He’s bleeding so much. It was so big. So big, Sir.”
The moment we pulled up to the small campsite, it was evident that we had missed the worst of the slaughter. Blood seeped into the snow in a horrible trail that led from the fireplace to the cabin. I parked the car and opened the door. Then a fired a round into the air. I thought any predators would be deterred by the sound of gunfire.
RJ followed my lead and edged out of our SUV quietly. The snow obscured most of our vision. But the path to the cabin appeared to be clear. He gestured two fingers over his shoulder like a fucking GI Joe soldier. I stupidly followed his lead.
We were about halfway to the cabin when we were attacked. My partner was standing two feet in front of me. I never saw the animal until it was too late.
RJ screamed before the lion took out his jugular. It was a pitiful sound. Like the last bit of juice being sucked through a straw. Two quick swats from dinner plate sized paws shut him up quick.
The commotion must have drawn attention from people inside the cabin. Somebody opened the door and stared at the carnage in a dumbfounded stupor. I sprinted towards them and locked the bolt behind us.
Three teenagers stared at me stupidly as the lion audibly disemboweled RJ outside.
I broke down and cried in front of them.
The kids said nothing until the creature lumbered away a few minutes later. The tall boy stuck out a hand in my pitiful direction and quietly introduced himself as Brian. The boy on the bed was John. He was sitting up with a makeshift bandage pressed to his arm. Blood soaked through the cloth in red. But most of it looked dried. The girl crying by the bedside was Sadie.
They all wanted asked the same thing.
“What is it? We didn’t get a look look.”
I tried to supply the rational answers. Wolverines can look disturbing to those who have never seen one. Sightings of mountain lions this far north are rare, but possible. I tried to appear authoritative. I tried not to shake the horror of what just happened. Sadie didn’t believe it for a second.
“That thing was bigger than a mountain lion. You saw it. what is it?”
I fumbled for more rational answers. Sweat started to pour into my shirt as the seriousness of our situation started to creep in. I was about to reply with more bullshit answers when a loud, obnoxious scraping shook the cabin from head to toe.
“Oh my God… it knows we’re in here,” whimpered John.
“Why would it do this? Didn’t it just eat?” begged Brian.
“It’s doing it for fun,” whispered Sadie.
The noise stretched across the length of our room slowly. As if the lion were dragging its nails slowly across the walls. Then the sound started to rise. It started near ground level and slowly went higher. To the windows. To the loft. To the roof. After one final thud, it soon became clear that the lion was standing on top of the house.
Then it jumped.
The entire ceiling sagged generously. Bits and pieces of snow slipped in through unseen cracks. I beckoned for the kids to follow me towards the door before the beast jumped again.
When it did, the wood started to crack.
An entire panel fell onto the floor in front of us. A small pillar of snow started to leak openly into the kitchen sink. The lion jumped again, and again, as more planks from the ceiling fell haplessly to the floor. I opened our door gently, so as not to disturb the creature, before one final jump caused the entire ceiling to give way.
The four of us squeaked out of the collapsed cabin as the lion writhed and growled at the thousands of splinters assuredly sinking into its fur. We passed the remains of RJ. He did not leave much more behind than a shell of bones and rib cages. He looked like a spent lobster.
John’s horrified scream drew back the attention of the creature. I could hear it stirring in the rubble. I pulled my gun off my shoulder as the kids ran imto the car and fired a shot in the general direction of the cabin. The animal screamed. It sounded so human that it made me pause and reconsider. Then I raced towards the car, opened the door, and threw my key in the ignition.
We never looked back.
The car stalled out in a snowbank three quarters of the way back to my ranger cabin. I made the group get out and run. Part of me felt like it was watching us. Waiting for another opportunity to strike. When we made it back, I sounded every single Goddamn alarm I had.

The incident was thoroughly investigated by the National Park Service. My coworker’s death was determined to be a bear attack. The roof collapse caused by natural occurrences. I told them that was impossible. I told them no bear could cause injuries or damage like that. No bear could launch itself on top of a house. But we never had any evidence. And so our story was, for the most part, ignored.
Regardless, I know what I saw. The American Lion is still alive and well. It could be hunting people as we speak. It could be stalking the same south suburban woods we wander with so much blind trust.
Sometimes, I can still hear it scream at night. I know its not alone.
[i][i](source) (story by FirstBreath1)[/i][/i]

[i][i]http://scaryhorrorstories.net/post/179932553726/the-american-lion-is-not-extinct[/i][/i]
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China Smilodon-Rex Offline
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#84


*This image is copyright of its original author

How about this design? 
Panthera Atrox by Sebastián Rozadilla
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Venezuela epaiva Offline
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#85
( This post was last modified: 02-20-2019, 06:27 AM by epaiva )

Measurements of Skeketons of Panthera atrox and Smilodon fatalis in George C Page Museum.
Information received in 2001, thanks to Mr Chris Shaw who was Collection Manager of Museum at the time, he is one of the Editors of the new book named Smilodon.
@tigerluver what size do you estimate this Panthera atrox had when it was alive?

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#86

@Smilodon-Rex :

About #84: About your question " How about this design? "...This design by Sebastian Rozadilla is very well executed, but I, nevertheless, have an objection to point out: clearly, this felid has a tiger's head, not a lion's head.
Tiger's head because curved skull above the eyes and straight snout. As concern's the lions, it would be straight from the midpoint between the ears to the snout end.
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Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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#87

(02-20-2019, 05:55 AM)epaiva Wrote: Measurements of Skeketons of Panthera atrox and Smilodon fatalis in George C Page Museum.
Information received in 2001, thanks to Mr Chris Shaw who was Collection Manager of Museum at the time, he is one of the Editors of the new book named Smilodon.
@tigerluver what size do you estimate this Panthera  atrox had when it was alive?

*This image is copyright of its original author

Awesome!!!

It seems that while the Panthera atrox skeleton may represent the maximum size (based in the skull), the skeleton of Smilodon fatalis just shows an average sized specimen (again, based in the skull).

Thank you very much for this @epaiva.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#88
( This post was last modified: 05-22-2019, 01:01 AM by Sully )

"To learn more about saber-toothed diets, the researchers analyzed the fossil teeth of 15 saber-toothed cats (Smilodon fatalis) and 15 American lions (Panthera atrox) recovered from the La Brea tar pits in Los Angeles. These specimens ranged from about 11,500 to 35,000 years in age.
To study the fossils, the scientists used dental microwear texture analysis, developed by anthropologist Peter Ungar at the University of Arkansas. This involves using generating three-dimensional images of a tooth's surface. The image is then analyzed for microscopic grooves — devouring red meat produces small parallel scratches, while biting on bones lead to larger, deeper pits.
The investigation found the pattern of wear on the teeth of the saber-toothed cat most closely resembled those of present-day African lions, which sometimes crush bone when they eat. The wear pattern on American lion teeth, on the other hand, echoed that of the present-day cheetah, which deliberately avoids bones when it feeds."

The rest of the article is interesting enough too, questioning the popular narrative as to why megafauna predators of the pleistocene went extinct.

https://www.livescience.com/25848-starvation-extinction-sabertooth-cats.html
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#89

@Sully :

About #88: very interesting the link you shared. What can we conclude: does the mystery of the big cats' extinction remain unsolved ? Or do we have to accept the gradual extinction thesis ?

An other problem: contrary to extant lions, American lion would more often concentrate their appetite on meat (as extant cheetahs do), whereas saber tooth cats did the same on bones. Your link indicates that the lion's teeth support better the pression than the saber tooth cat does. Thus, did the saber tooth cat take more risks when eating ? Because on the other hand we also consider that saber tooth cats enjoyed a less powerful bite than the modern lions. Do we have to reconsider our American lion's depiction ?

Perhaps too the saber tooth cats were more stressed than American lions when they were eating ? As stressed as the modern lions (frenzy of the whole pride eating a big prey ?) ? And if the American lions were not so stressed, but nevertheless having disappeared so what ? They don't see anything (extinction) coming.

Sorry I try to consider all the possibilities and the mystery remains. Perhaps something is lacking for me. What about you ?
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#90
( This post was last modified: 05-22-2019, 08:48 PM by Sully )

I've typed out a reply to this a few times but nothing quite seems to satisfy me. You make a good point on the whole frenzy of the kill, the link is there to be made given the smilodon tooth wear is similar to current lion ones. In terms of whether each cat existed in groups or not, I don't really think that it would make too much of a difference in their respective extinctions however. With depleting preferred prey I would imagine that if there were groups, they slowly dissolved out and the animals favoured a more solitary lifestyle, the pride becoming unsustainable. We can see this today in the difference of pride sizes between African lions and Asiatic ones who have lower prey density. Maybe the stress wear of a frenzy kill and the gnawing of bone stress wear due to lesser prey are similar and thus it was assumed nothing changed? Regardless drawing distinctions between expectance of extinction by a group cat and a solitary one, I think that's hard to do as ultimately in their very last days, I imagine they likely favoured a similar lifestyle, that being solitary.

On the point of the smilodon taking more risks, I tend to agree. It seemed a more specialised predator, with the machairodontinae being a lot different physiologically to all cats we have knowledge of. The implications of this would be going after more dangerous prey, but maybe with the depletion of the pride taking down these animals became harder? The group didn't have enough to share, but without numbers, targeting preferred prey became a bigger task and their build wasn't malleable enough to adapt to other options?

Major assumtions are involved in coming up with a theory for why these big cats died out. From the link it seems their decline came in a very short period of time. Just what triggered that is yet to be known. It's all theoretical at the moment. I agree there is a missing link tying all of this together. Though radical environmental change does seem typical of a species we're quite familiar with...
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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