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Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions

woshiniya Offline
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(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)Charger01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field. 

Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now. 
  • If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.


The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.

----

The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that. 

Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.

GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a
That vet doesn't exist.He comes from a rumor made up by an extreme lion fan.
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Czech Republic Charger01 Offline
Animal admirer & Vegan
( This post was last modified: 12-10-2022, 01:39 PM by Charger01 )

(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)Charger01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field. 

Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now. 
  • If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.


The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.

----

The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that. 

Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.

GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a long time ago.

IF the information is real, then someone found it. Meaning it MUST exist. Now if it does, then where is it? Once again, I am not dismissing anything right now. (Anything includes the sheet as well as the replies I got from Welgevonden).
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Germany ZigZak Offline
Banned

(12-10-2022, 05:40 AM)woshiniya Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)Charger01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field. 

Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now. 
  • If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.


The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.

----

The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that. 

Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.

GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a
That vet doesn't exist.He comes from a rumor made up by an extreme lion fan.

I may ask who is the extreme lion fan you are talking about? The document and other details leave no room for a fabrication and i do not see any intention of it being faked but maybe thats just my point of view. I have never seen any fan from both sides faking weights. With the time we will know...
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Germany ZigZak Offline
Banned

(12-10-2022, 05:17 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 04:20 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)Charger01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)ZigZak Wrote: As indicated they do not weigh their lions in the field. 

Gap Africa Projects is usually "responsible" for the animals in the reserve (darting them) who work with vets from local clinics that treat them in the field and in their own clinics from what i have seen. So it is independent -> not the reserve. As implicated it was an examination and around the time when he was translocated, which is a complicated process. Maybe he was weighed in Kololo but that doesnt matter because of the reason i will mention now. 
  • If the lion was not weighed recently/didnt go viral it is almost guarenteed workers are not even aware of that particular examination, let alone weight. As reported reserves are generally not well organized especially when it comes to such information (most have no idea especially when it is years ago) as they work with independent organisations that also usually work with vets from clinics and do not store data like those scientists in National Park with the prime example being Kruger National Park. This was the case with Kololo, Karongwe, Erindi, Madikwe, Entabeni and other Game Reserves. They do not even know the names of people that worked some years before them.


The workers that were contacted also didnt work at that time. So it is better to contact the vet that worked with Gap Africa Projects at that time as it says examination.

----

The Video was the original source (comments) and the guy doesnt seem to be a liar or dangerous guy in any way. He just posts animal videos and also shared the official documents too. He said to me "In total, two measurements were taken (2017 and 2020) .Since you can contact the staff, why don't you ask them to ask the vet who measured Dinokeng at that time?".
Maybe you didn't read the email, old friend, but I asked both of them for the contacts of the vet. They never replied to that. 

Also, Carmen actually works with Gap Africa, while also being the lead of bio-monitoring team.

GAP doesnt have vets. They call local vets (there arent actual vets working for Welgevonden or Gap) so they cant tell. Also she was barely working in Welgevonden when Dinokeng was examined, so they wont be helpful. I am not concerned in this case, just want to make sure i would like to write with the vet even though the document is there. There is not a good organization, storage in Game Reserves and there are not employees for each field like in national parks, which makes it so hard to get any data from reserves when it took place a long time ago.

238 kg Male Lion from Greater Mabula Game Reserve

*This image is copyright of its original author



https://www.instagram.com/p/ClFtwTXKQ0q/
Another over weight private reserve lion.

Apparently ever lion is fat. If that is the definition of fat... only god knows what other lions are. He just has a thin layer of fat and thats it.
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Germany ZigZak Offline
Banned

259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around

*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
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(12-11-2022, 08:02 PM)ZigZak Wrote: 259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around

*This image is copyright of its original author

Still no word on the Vets name?
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Germany ZigZak Offline
Banned

(12-11-2022, 11:00 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-11-2022, 08:02 PM)ZigZak Wrote: 259kgs (empty stomach) male from Timbavati weighed by the head of the carnivore team in kruger. This Lion is called the "Timbavati male lion", 5 years old, he sired the 3 huge Machaton males also, and was the main Male lion in Kings Camp area in Timbavati around

*This image is copyright of its original author

Still no word on the Vets name?

If you read my post there is still a lot to ask. I personally wrote with him, so you can be sure about it. If you assure me that you wont contact the person until i am done i may give you his name via PM in few days. Luckily he had no problem with his name being shared (for now at least).

Timbavati Lions impressed me. We have 3 male lions that were weighed and those were the lions that dominated the kings camp area. We have the father of the machaton lions who weighed 259 kg without stomach fill at the age of 5. Then we have Ximpoko who weighed c.280 kg (283 kg i believe) with a recent meal and the lion Mabande that was darted alongside with him weighed c.250 kg. I guess he had stomach content but we dont know. There is a male also from a timbavati back then that was named Waza Waza and he apparently weighed 270 kg but the information on that specimen is poor and it sounded lika an estimate.  So dominant lions and thus the fair maximum is around 240-260 kg without stomach fill. Anything above that are exceptions and very large lions.
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United States Pckts Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author
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Maldives acutidens150 Offline
Banned

@GuateGojira
I've seen the lion size chart, what are the measurements from:

Botswana lion-
Pienaar et al ,1979
Roberts ,1951

South Africa lion-  
Kitchener & Yamaguchi ,2010
Leydekker 1901
Roberts ,1951 
Vaughan Kirby ,1899

East Africa lion- 
Allen, 1942 
Bennet, 1914 
Gibbons, 1898
Jirmo et al, 2010 
Piefferle et al 
Rodgers, 1974 

Namibia lion- 
De Wall, 2004 
Hoth, 2016
Oxford et al,1988
Predator Conservation Trust, 2009 
Roberts, 1951 
Stander, 1992 
Wet & Gaedke, 2009 

Zimbabwe lion- 
Fahlam et al, 2005 
MacDonald et al, 2009 
Roberts, 1951 
Wilson in litt
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United States Bruceenzo Offline
Banned

(12-10-2022, 01:25 PM)充电器01 Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 04:08 AM)之字形 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 10:23 PM)充电器01 Wrote:
(12-09-2022, 06:15 PM)之字形 Wrote: 如前所述,他们不会在野外给狮子称重。 

Gap Africa Projects 通常对保护区内的动物“负责”(飞镖),这些动物与当地诊所的兽医一起工作,这些兽医在野外和我所见的自己的诊所中治疗它们。所以它是独立的 -> 不是储备。言外之意是检查,又是在易位前后,过程复杂。也许他在 Kololo 称过体重,但这并不重要,因为我现在要提到的原因。 
  • 如果狮子最近没有称重/没有传播病毒,那么几乎可以保证工作人员甚至都不知道该特定检查,更不用说体重了。由于报告的储备通常没有很好地组织,尤其是在涉及此类信息时(大多数人不知道,尤其是几年前),因为他们与独立组织合作,这些组织通常也与诊所的兽医合作,并且不像那些科学家那样存储数据国家公园,典型的例子是克鲁格国家公园。Kololo、Karongwe、Erindi、Madikwe、Entabeni 和其他禁猎区就是这种情况。他们甚至不知道在他们之前工作多年的人的名字。


所联系的工人当时也没有工作。所以最好联系当时与 Gap Africa Projects 合作的兽医,因为它说检查。

----

视频是原始来源(评论),而且这个人似乎在任何方面都不是骗子或危险人物。他只是发布动物视频,也分享了官方文件。他对我说“一共测量了两次(2017年和2020年)。既然你可以联系工作人员,你为什么不让他们问问当时测量Dinokeng的兽医呢?”。
也许你没有读过邮件,老朋友,但我向他们俩要了兽医的联系方式。他们从未对此作出回应。 

此外,Carmen 实际上与 Gap Africa 合作,同时也是生物监测团队的负责人。

GAP 没有兽医。他们打电话给当地的兽医(没有真正的兽医为 Welgevonden 或 Gap 工作)所以他们无法分辨。此外,在检查 Dinokeng 时,她几乎没有在 Welgevonden 工作,所以他们不会提供帮助。我不关心这种情况,只是想确保我愿意和兽医一起写信,即使文件在那里。禁猎区没有良好的组织和存储,也没有像国家公园那样的每个领域的员工,这使得很久以前就很难从保护区获取任何数据。

如果信息是真实的,那么有人找到了它。意味着它必须存在。现在,如果有,那么它在哪里?再说一次,我现在不否认任何事情。(任何东西都包括表格以及我从 Welgevonden 得到的回复)。
Dude, do you have Facebook or something? I want to ask you something.
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United States BA0701 Offline
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(12-22-2022, 09:17 AM)Bruceenzo Wrote: Dude, do you have Facebook or something? I want to ask you something.

Our site has private messages available for each of us to communicate with individual members.
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Maldives acutidens150 Offline
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Can someone give me the link to Smuts 1980 study on lions (Pdf document, I'd like most but if can't then anything else)
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United States Pckts Offline
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(01-09-2023, 11:08 PM)acutidens150 Wrote: Can someone give me the link to Smuts 1980 study on lions (Pdf document, I'd like most but if can't then anything else)

Post #139
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-modern-...#pid130109

I scanned most of the relevant info and posted there.
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United States Bruceenzo Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-25-2023, 05:24 AM by Bruceenzo )

(12-01-2022, 12:32 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(11-30-2022, 01:41 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-30-2022, 12:14 AM)ZigZak Wrote:
(11-29-2022, 09:38 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @ZigZak wasn't BDM's skull the third largest, not the largest?

As i know BDM Skull must be the largest. Because as i know the biggest lion skull ever had a score of 26.5 inches and that comes from Kirbies Lion. However BDM had a skull score of 28 inches following wards protocol. I honestly think he had a skull length of c.430 mm and a zogomatic width of c.280 mm.

His skull would rank 17th amongst S.A. Lions *general overexaggerating seen in private reserves*  from SCI but again the process is different and even master measurers can do so in different ways.
I saw on Youtube someone say it was 16'' x 12'' which would be very unusual zygomatic width for that length in Lions, your measurements would be more plausible but still need verification.

Those measurements were estimates by lion fans because of the score of 28 inches that was reached by Black Dam.

You look like someone I know. I'm not sure. If you are China IP, or the IP of multiple countries (the reason for vpn switching), I will be sure. This 287kg lion information looks like a trick for a person to reply to himself with two Instagram, I don't know why you should erase the online status of the other party. It looks like the performance of not understanding and feeling guilty after the rumor. Well, you look very much like some extreme lion fan I know.In addition, the Facebook of the person who provided your 287kg screenshot and your WF are all recently registered, which makes me more sure that you are him. I need the help of the administrator. Which country is the IP address of the banned guy? He looks like a Chinese lion fan, similar to Warsaw, and also very good at spreading rumors. I hope that the administrator can reply to my question, which is very important.
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United States Bruceenzo Offline
Banned

(12-09-2022, 06:18 PM)之字形 Wrote:
(12-08-2022, 11:42 PM)数据包 Wrote:
(12-08-2022, 10:27 PM)充电器01 Wrote: YouTube 频道所有者说的是体重超过 300 公斤,但兽医估计他有 265 公斤的空重。他一定是在称重之前吃了一顿大餐。但在与其他人讨论后,我仍然有疑问。 

我与 Welgevonden 的两名官员取得了联系。 

1. 保护经理 





2. 生物监测经理




在解雇任何事情之前,我还是想和真正的兽医谈谈。

这些看起来很清楚,但无论如何,应该简单地从程序的内容和运作方式中驳回这种说法。它不是自由放养的猫,显然严重过度喂食。

在我看来,Dinokeng 一点也不胖,而且他也在自己的保护区里做自己的事情,所以我不明白为什么他不自由放养。他最近刚打架,受了伤。或者我理解错了。

No, they don't measure any lions. Now I suspect you are that person.who are you???
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