Felids Interactions - Intraspecific Conflicts

[Shadow]

@Pantherinae  Here is one interesting text concerning what you asked. From Indian Forester, October 1999 page 1063.

Quote: "There are instances when male tigers have been killed by female while approaching very near the cubs."

I attach screenshot of that page here, it´s worth to read overall too. Reply

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[Pantherinae]

(12-30-2019, 02:30 AM)Shadow Wrote: @Pantherinae  Here is one interesting text concerning what you asked. From Indian Forester, October 1999 page 1063.

Quote: "There are instances when male tigers have been killed by female while approaching very near the cubs."

I attach screenshot of that page here, it´s worth to read overall too.

Wow thanks for taking time to do that. I really appriciate that Shadow. Reply

[Pckts]

I have a hard time believing a Tigress can inflict enough damage to Kill an adult male but who knows, they are fully capable to kill.

That being said, one of the most impressive Tigress of Ranthambore, Machli, was tossed like a ragdoll by the Nick male * might be a different name* over a kill. It wasn't a matter of if Machli could fight with him, it was a matter of if she continued she'd be dead trying to hold onto her kill. Reply

[Shadow]

(12-30-2019, 02:36 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:

(12-30-2019, 02:30 AM)Shadow Wrote: @Pantherinae  Here is one interesting text concerning what you asked. From Indian Forester, October 1999 page 1063.

Quote: "There are instances when male tigers have been killed by female while approaching very near the cubs."

I attach screenshot of that page here, it´s worth to read overall too.

Wow thanks for taking time to do that. I really appriciate that Shadow.

Things, which are rare are interesting to check time to time and I had now a little bit time. When I saw, that Thapar really told about one case in his book I was confident, that some other credible sources has to be there. Indian Forester has some "gems" if just finding hint(s) where to find. And if time to go through material. Reply

[Pckts]

Some may not like this but, sometimes thapar likes to sensationalize stories or theories.
I'm not saying he's not a valid source though. Reply

[Rage2277]

(12-30-2019, 02:36 AM)Pckts Wrote: I have a hard time believing a Tigress can inflict enough damage to Kill an adult male but who knows, they are fully capable to kill.

That being said, one of the most impressive Tigress of Ranthambore, Machli, was tossed like a ragdoll by the Nick male * might be a different name* over a kill. It wasn't a matter of if Machli could fight with him, it was a matter of if she continued she'd be dead trying to hold onto her kill.

it was with romeo t6 if i recall correctly and indeed tigresses are capable of killing males but he would have to be off guard sleeping and even then getting a good grip would be a task but idk man i don't buy that account Reply

[Pckts]

Also, the clipping you posted only mentions times it's happened but none of the actual stories provide any proof of that. Who knows what that sentence is based off of. Reply

[Shadow]

(12-30-2019, 03:04 AM)Pckts Wrote: Also, the clipping you posted only mentions times it's happened but none of the actual stories provide any proof of that. Who knows what that sentence is based off of.

I put what is written and sources, it´s up to people who see those, how credible they keep them. These two are such, that there is possibility to contact sources if wanting to know more. And I think, that Thapar tells more about that case he mentions in some of his other books. @GuateGojira might be able to provide more information and details what happened. Book might be Tiger, Portrait of a predator.

I´ll check later if I can find some other sources clearly mentioning this kind of incidents. Such fights are mentioned in several places, but so far these two have been such, which I consider to have real value, when talking about wild tigers. I think, that more detailed information can be found if knowing where to search or ask. Reply

[Shadow]

One incident in which tigress Machli fights male tiger in order to protect her cubs. This time not too serious, but also not a friendly fight. Male got uncomfortable looking wound and limped away.

Reply

[Pckts]

Cuts to the pad are one thing but there was only one dominate animal there. He's trying to mate not kill cubs or her, shes in no position to Kill him while he could of decided to go for the throat at any time.

Here you can see when the male means business and not worried about mating.
This is Machli and Romeo 

Reply

[Shadow]

(12-30-2019, 04:04 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cuts to the pad are one thing but there was only one dominate animal there. He's trying to mate not kill cubs or her, shes in no position to Kill him while he could of decided to go for the throat at any time.

Here you can see when the male means business and not worried about mating.
This is Machli and Romeo 

Maybe you missed that I already mentioned, that not too serious fight. Point to share that was to show, that tigresses can fight when protecting cubs. In that case which I shared it was quite obvious, that cubs weren´t right next to adults. Everyone can imagine how some female tiger can behave, when cub is in immediate danger. It has been said in different places, that fights which have caused deaths of males by tigresses have been when cubs have been in danger and male tiger too close. That is also logical, when looking different species. Mothers are often ready to do desperate things fiercely, when cubs are in immediate danger. Tigers seem to be no exception. 

Bringing in fights in which males win proves nothing. That is normal way to go, because they are bigger and stronger. What Thapar told and Indian Forester also mentioned are about incidents, which happen time to time, not all the time.

But let´s see how much more can be found out about these interactions in which tigresses are forced and willing to protect their cubs, there seems to be more to be found, when time to check more closely. Reply

[Dennis]

(12-29-2019, 04:59 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(12-29-2019, 01:25 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Hello everyone, wasn’t there some account of a tigress killing a male tiger while she was protecting her cubs? I can’t remember where I read that.

Valmik Thapar is one person who tells about such incident in his book:  Land of the Tiger: A Natural History of the Indian Subcontinent.

Quote from it: 
"However I do know that a tigress once killed an adult male to protect her cubs. The male, who might have been an aggressive transient, was gnawed open and a chunk of his rump eaten."

Chapter: The tiger´s domain and page 261.

"However I do know that a tigress once.." so, Thapar never witnessed this event. He is merely referencing what he heard happen before. Reply

[Rishi]

(12-30-2019, 04:04 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cuts to the pad are one thing but there was only one dominate animal there. He's trying to mate not kill cubs or her, shes in no position to Kill him while he could of decided to go for the throat at any time.

Here you can see when the male means business and not worried about mating.
This is Machli and Romeo 

Have you noticed that submitting tigers are often so aggressive! 
It's rather the dominant animal who moves away, satisfied with establishing dominance & not looking to escalate the situation.

Also, remember a lioness killed her mate &father of 3 cubs at Indianapolis Zoo (October 2018)?... Males don't have Kevlar skin, if an experienced matriarch can get to its throat, it's in trouble. Reply

[Spalea]

Sometimes I don't love lions at all.

" Older alpha lion breaks the spine of a younger potentially rival male lion.The young male was later euthanized by the parks veterinary team as recovery was not possible. "

Reply

[Shadow]

(12-30-2019, 09:20 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(12-30-2019, 04:04 AM)Pckts Wrote: Cuts to the pad are one thing but there was only one dominate animal there. He's trying to mate not kill cubs or her, shes in no position to Kill him while he could of decided to go for the throat at any time.

Here you can see when the male means business and not worried about mating.
This is Machli and Romeo 

Have you noticed that submitting tigers are often so aggressive! 
It's rather the dominant animal who moves away, satisfied with establishing dominance & not looking to escalate the situation.

Also, remember a lioness killed her mate &father of 3 cubs at Indianapolis Zoo (October 2018)?... Males don't have Kevlar skin, if an experienced matriarch can get to its throat, it's in trouble.

If in some situation male tiger can underestimate tigresses determination, capability and will to fight if have to, it´s obviously when tigress defends cubs. Many tigresses might not dare to do that and submit to watch how cubs are killed. But when there is a tigress willing to do all it can to save her cubs, it´s another thing. In such situation it´s easy to think, that male tiger can hesitate split second in wrong place and time and then pays the price, smaller or bigger.

All in all, Thapar writes in his book(s) about one case. Indian Forester mention, that such cases are known to have happened. Some other places also have such indications. People are, as always, free to decide what they keep reliable and what not. I will ask from some places if they can give more information, I hope that someone else does the same too. Maybe this isn´t too difficult mystery after all. Reply