There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(12-03-2019, 01:48 AM)Blondemane Wrote: For the nomads, going into sabisabi could be a mistake, S.Avocas are not a joke in terms of agression, could be a huge mistake for them and that lion with the intestine injury is out for any fight even a female can beat him and rip that wound easily.
Othawa male as a lone male is always on the edge, thats the true, yes he is becoming massive but he has the numbers factor against him, so he is app safe but as a loner he is never safe right?
Sabi Sabi is not a territory of S. Avocas, they are further southeast in Kirkmans and some parts of Lion Sands and south MalaMala.
Well yea, theoretically Othawa male is never safe as a lone male.
Yes, SabiSabi is not their main land, but they can easily go there as they go into Kruger areas cus they have done that so many times, they are the only SabiSands dominant males that crossed the boundary into kruger areas outside of SS. So you can never know where they might be next day, next week.
Avocas rather do not have any reason to risk their lives in such confrontation. No matter if they could potentially take on this four or not, those young four is simple not their problem.
Well yes Styx pride had mange, but not that serious, i dont think that they died from that, they where seen in mid 2019 in the north as a 10, all in good condition, then some months later they where in the south as only 6 members, what happened to the 4 is a mystery..
Well didnt know that DM was seen with Ridge Noses cubs,i just assumed that lionesses would not be happy with a male lion that they didnt see for a half a year around the cubs, even if they know him.
When the Avoca's arrived in North Sabi Sands they had a confrontation with the BBoys. I can't recall which BBoys were involved but they did chase the Avocas. Dark Mane was found the next day by himself looking for the other two who remained together. So at the hands of experienced lions it's likely that Dark Mane will be easy to isolate. I also recall a Safari Live presenter speculating that it would be very easy for another coalition to dispatch the lone male before turning on the other two--I think they were referring to the Orpen Males should they decide to expand south. The distance may be close, but in a fight minutes can make a difference.
That said, I don't think the younger coalitions will be able to dispatch the Avocas that easily. The new coalition will probably need another year or two before they can seriously challenge them. Lone inexperienced males will be an easier picking.
The Avoca males started roaring next to our game viewer last night. There seems to be a new coalition of 5 young males who are pushing down from the north, so these males have been rather vocal lately. Video by guest, Marianne Rammal
(12-03-2019, 03:38 AM)Blondemane Wrote: Yes, Darkmane spend some time with the cubs, you can see him here in damcam. Darkmane and Mohawk in this footage.
Nice find, i somehow miss that.
(12-03-2019, 04:55 AM)Matimbalani Wrote: When the Avoca's arrived in North Sabi Sands they had a confrontation with the BBoys. I can't recall which BBoys were involved but they did chase the Avocas. Dark Mane was found the next day by himself looking for the other two who remained together. So at the hands of experienced lions it's likely that Dark Mane will be easy to isolate. I also recall a Safari Live presenter speculating that it would be very easy for another coalition to dispatch the lone male before turning on the other two--I think they were referring to the Orpen Males should they decide to expand south. The distance may be close, but in a fight minutes can make a difference.
That said, I don't think the younger coalitions will be able to dispatch the Avocas that easily. The new coalition will probably need another year or two before they can seriously challenge them. Lone inexperienced males will be an easier picking.
Well chances that an experience coalition invade their territory is very slim, and as you said younger ones are not experience enough to dispatch them.
But anyways, in takeover scenario, its very rare that males engage at the first contact, days, weeks even months of roaring, chasing, testing the strenght of the opponent.
If the new males invade for example Avocas territory, first they will roar, and that roars will hear all 3 of them, for sure.
(12-03-2019, 08:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Well chances that an experience coalition invade their territory is very slim, and as you said younger ones are not experience enough to dispatch them.
But anyways, in takeover scenario, its very rare that males engage at the first contact, days, weeks even months of roaring, chasing, testing the strenght of the opponent.
If the new males invade for example Avocas territory, first they will roar, and that roars will hear all 3 of them, for sure.
That will likely be the case as you describe. From accounts of their fight with Hairy Belly they stuck together. Though we also have the case of coalitions like the Selati's who were picked off one by one by the same foes in more or less the same territory. Sometimes tendencies within coalitions can create weaknesses specially when they tend to have their preferred prides.
12-04-2019, 12:27 AM( This post was last modified: 12-04-2019, 12:37 AM by Blondemane )
from one of latest footage, Avocas have been vocal, so that mean they are announce their presence, prepared for the challenge... but one thing i was wondering is, if the 5 young males are in this area, why no pictures of them?
"from one of latest footage, Avocas have been vocal, so that mean they are announce their presence, prepared for the challenge"
Roar is also used to mark territory. It like they want to tall "that territory is already occupy, go boys somewhere else". Perhaps Avocas are not hurry to fight and try to force youngsters out by intimidation or perhaps they are just sending warning before taking on rough measures.
"but one thing i was wondering is, if the 5 young males are in this area, why no pictures of them?"
Possibly Rangers witnessed only their tracks and did not seen them yet or perhaps it is just too early and soon we will see their pics.
(12-03-2019, 08:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Well chances that an experience coalition invade their territory is very slim, and as you said younger ones are not experience enough to dispatch them.
But anyways, in takeover scenario, its very rare that males engage at the first contact, days, weeks even months of roaring, chasing, testing the strenght of the opponent.
If the new males invade for example Avocas territory, first they will roar, and that roars will hear all 3 of them, for sure.
That will likely be the case as you describe. From accounts of their fight with Hairy Belly they stuck together. Though we also have the case of coalitions like the Selati's who were picked off one by one by the same foes in more or less the same territory. Sometimes tendencies within coalitions can create weaknesses specially when they tend to have their preferred prides.
Just to point out coalition which took out Salatis - Majingilanes also were controling multiple prides and had their preferences. After they took over they were rarely seen all together. That is of course unless it happens thay they had to fight some intruder.
12-04-2019, 02:02 AM( This post was last modified: 12-04-2019, 02:09 AM by Tr1x24 )
(12-04-2019, 12:27 AM)Blondemane Wrote: from one of latest footage, Avocas have been vocal, so that mean they are announce their presence, prepared for the challenge... but one thing i was wondering is, if the 5 young males are in this area, why no pictures of them?
Lets not get ahead of ourselfs here.
1. All dominant males roar on daily bases, you can find videos of Avocas roaring from every week, or month in the past, nothing new here.
2. 5 Nharu males where seen in Buffelshoek for 1 day around month and half ago, thats the only sighting of them in Sabi Sands, ever..
I wont belive until i see a trusted report/photo of somebody that they are indeed in Sabi Sands, i certaintly wont belive when somebody says "Avocas are roaring, it must be that 5 young males are invading their territory"..
3. Dark Mane with Talamati pride are photographed regulary in South Manyeleti /Buffelshoek, and not even 1 photo of 5 young males? Hmm
4. 5 Nharu males are nowhere near ready for territory takeover, they are too young, 2 months ago they where chased of a buffalo kill by 1 Red Road male, 3 Avocas would murder them at this stage.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is their photo from Buffelshoek more then a month ago, cmon guys, they barely have manes yet,lets calm down a bit, they are not even 4 yrs old.
1. Generally you're right althrough intensification of such doing may be caused by intruders in the arena and of course may not have been.
2. The video as well as description added to it comes from Jaci's Sabi House facebook page. Of course it is not though prove of Nharu presence, but they are in Sabi Sands. It is not like I wrote myself that description. Add to it that their return certainly wouldn't be some real suprise. Also they are possibly more or less in that arena as after they left their natal pride they moved south and even through they did not stay long on Avoca's territory last time they still may be somewhere near by.
4. Yes, for now, but their return would indicate that they are still around Avoca's territory which could indicate possible shift of power in the future.
