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Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
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Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
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 (10-02-2019, 12:05 AM)Spalea Wrote:(10-01-2019, 10:34 PM)Shadow Wrote:I sincerely believe, now, that a male tiger is able to kill an adult rhino or elephant... But that remains a matter of proportion. It has been said that, in some parks, tigers were responsible for the rhinos extinction... I think it's abusive. Tigers and rhinos, tigers and bears, have been living together within the same regions without the formers exterminated the latters for 2 or 3 millions years. But since some men have started to watch them, it is no more a struggle for life but a total war of extermination. Let us stop to be delirious.(10-01-2019, 09:40 PM)Pckts Wrote:(10-01-2019, 09:48 AM)Shadow Wrote:They can be but when Tigers fight with any animals that are capable of killing them there isn't going to be a lack of evidence. There will be injuries, blood splatter and destroyed ground, you won't walk up to them and not be able to tell if they were electrocuted or poisoned compared to being killed in a drawn out fight.(10-01-2019, 07:38 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-01-2019, 07:33 AM)Rishi Wrote:It's the same article that was posted in regards to P212(09-30-2019, 12:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-29-2019, 09:38 PM)Shadow Wrote:I cannot recall a single case of an Indian Boar killing a Tiger nor can I recall a Russian one either, but it'd be more believable with a Russian boar.(09-29-2019, 09:09 PM)Pckts Wrote:Well, wild boars have been reported to kill some tigers in official reports from India and Russia, so nothing special in it. Then again if tiger is treated for rabies, dog bites are for sure a good reason to do so.(09-29-2019, 06:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: I noticed by accident more information about one older case, where dogs injured a tiger. Looks like those were stray dogs. In this article was just mentioned wild dogs https://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/pack-of-wild-dogs-attack-and-injure-tiger-at-panna-reserve_877236.html Yes, some people believe that. Still many don´t. It´s just as it is. I can understand, that only a photo where predator eats carcass doesn´t prove anything about cause of death. Then again if information comes from sources, which many doubt, it´s impossible to make everyone convinced. Tigers, rhinos and elephants are all very interesting for poachers. So pretty much every case can be questioned, that is some explanation cover up for poaching as real reason. Up to people, who they choose to believe in each case, when no good photos or video footage available. In some way it feels odd, how vague information is about many incidents, where something special has been reported to happen. Pity.  (10-02-2019, 12:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-02-2019, 12:39 AM)Shadow Wrote: This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars. It is just an estimate, here is how they came to that conclusion "The information presented in Table 10 is based on responses of fieldworkers to the question in the field diary: "Do you know any cases of tiger deaths?". We believe this summary is far from complete. More than 90% of the fieldworkers did not answer the question, or gave information that was already generally well-known. According to other calculations, an average of 40 to 50-70 tigers could have been killed annually (Pikunov 1994, Nikolaev and Yudin 1993). This estimate,together with natural losses, may exceed the reproductive potential of the population" This is also most likely why they show the same number for mortality from Bears, Tigers and Starvation from that area and in both time frames. (10-02-2019, 12:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-02-2019, 12:39 AM)Shadow Wrote: This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars. In that kind of reports details about minor issues tend to be missing. I am not interested enough to ask more, but most of those people should be possible to contact by email for instance in order to get extra information. (10-02-2019, 01:08 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-02-2019, 12:57 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-02-2019, 12:39 AM)Shadow Wrote: This is study/report, which mentions between 1985-1996 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 tigers killed by wild boars. That doesn´t look like "just an estimate" for me, when I read it. I see it like this: "The information presented in Table 10 is based on responses of fieldworkers to the question in the field diary: "Do you know any cases of tiger deaths?". We believe this summary is far from complete. More than 90% of the fieldworkers did not answer the question, or gave information that was already generally well-known." Then this is estimation part: "According to other calculations, an average of 40 to 50-70 tigers could have been killed annually (Pikunov 1994, Nikolaev and Yudin 1993). This estimate,together with natural losses, may exceed the reproductive potential of the population" So that table seems to be ok, but there might be some more cases since not all replied. Then estimate is related to those "other calculations". That is how I understood that, in estimations figures are usually presented like "approximately" or something like that. Not in the way as in that table with clear numbers.
I disagree
"We examined causes of mortality and survival rates for Amur tigers on and near the Sikhote‐Alin Biosphere Zapovednik. Our objectives were to estimate and compare survival rates among sex and age classes, estimate cause‐specific mortality, identify conservation issues related to tiger" "Further, natural deaths of this elusive animal are rarely detected by hunters and others who provided information for the above sources. Radio‐tracking provides a less biased sample because mortalities are usually detected regardless of cause of death. " Of their actual collared cats which weren't based off estimates "Of four natural mortalities, one tiger died of an unknown disease, one when a tree fell on it, one when it fell through the ice on a stream and froze to death and one from injuries from an unknown cause. When the latter (M50) was captured, the right side of his head and his left rear knee were swollen and he had a minor puncture wound on his head. He died a month later and necropsy revealed that his left rear leg and left front foot had both been broken several months before. The diseased tiger (M34) was a resident adult male found dead in an emaciated condition with no other apparent pathology; a condition consistent with canine distemper which has been confirmed in the population (Goodrich et al., 2005a)." https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wi...08.00458.x (10-02-2019, 03:26 AM)Pckts Wrote: I disagree Yes, tigers get killed from many reasons. That´s life. Then again some by wild boars, nothing special in it, imo. But as said, if you don´t believe Miquelle, Pikunov and others, your choice. I still don´t see there estimation, just 7 tigers killed by bears and 4 by wild boars. Of course these are cases, where there is no videos etc. It´s up to it, that do we trust to people like Miquelle and then again do we trust to their ability to make objective conclusions. Same thing then again what comes to cases in India, what is enough proof for people. These are things, where people have obviously many opinions, that´s life too :)  (10-02-2019, 12:18 AM)Nyers Wrote: Update on this case This is largely correct. The tiger, eaten by cancer and, as a result, partly paralyzed, was close to death before he attacked the wild boar. Based on what's known, the wild boar was able to get out of the grip of the tiger. Realizing the tiger wasn't able to move properly, the wild boar returned the favour. As a result of his attack, the tiger was badly injured in the region of the spine. It was the last thing he did: in spite of his bad condition and his injuries, the tiger killed the boar. After the fight, the tiger, unable to walk, left the scene of the fight. Following the unusual tracks he had left in the snow, they found him lying close to a road about 10 km. away. The size of the skull and the canines suggest the wild boar was a quite large animal. It's quite incredible that the tiger, badly affected by cancer, was able to kill him and then covered a distance of 10 km. using his front limbs only. You can find the details in the tiger extinction thread. An adult male wild boar is a dangerous adversary for any big cat. The are numerous reliable reports about tigers killed by wild boars in India, where they can reach 350 pounds (158,76 kg.) at times. In central parts of Asia, wild boars are larger. At the level of averages, the Ussuri wild boar is the largest of all subspecies. Adult males not seldom reach 400 pounds (181,44 kg.) in the Russian Far East.  (10-02-2019, 08:39 PM)peter Wrote:(10-02-2019, 12:18 AM)Nyers Wrote: Update on this case 1.This tiger wasn't injured. he died only of lymphoma 2.these are very old reports, their reliability is doubtful
Here is one interesting article about wild boars and their behavior. Interesting to read what people, who are there working in conservation programs of these animals, are telling. Again, everyone can decide themselves do they think that this person can be taken seriously or not.
https://blog.wcs.org/photo/2016/06/03/a-bear-of-a-boar/ Here is a bit about it, that who is this Jonathan C. Slaght. https://blog.wcs.org/photo/author/jslaght/ (10-03-2019, 12:06 AM)Diamir2 Wrote: these are very old reports, their reliability is doubtful Very old? What about u speaking, this case was happened 5 years ago. And reports coming from very reliable sources - rangers of Khingan Nature Reserve http://khingan.ru/
This footage is from some movie, but still from about 1:10-1:40 it´s pretty interesting to watch. That wild boar is quite big. From some other videos it´s easy to see in which situations and positions predators are in risk to get wounded, they do time to time fight so, that boars head is under their body, while both are standing and attack has happened frontal.
(10-03-2019, 07:59 PM)Shadow Wrote: This footage is from some movie, but still from about 1:10-1:40 it´s pretty interesting to watch. That wild boar is quite big. From some other videos it´s easy to see in which situations and positions predators are in risk to get wounded, they do time to time fight so, that boars head is under their body, while both are standing and attack has happened frontal. This video has been discussed at different forums. The tiger, who had just visited the dentist, was an actor. He also was an amateur in the department of wild boars. I think he was lucky to get away in one piece. I wouldn't use the video to get to conclusions on tigers and wild boars. A few decades ago, I saw a documentary about Amur tigers on a German channel. The Germans had hired a few hunters to help them find a tiger. The Russians told them about tigers and wild boars, but the Germans didn't buy the stories. They had been following the tracks of a young adult tigress for some days, when they saw the immense head of what must have been a big male wild boar. It was a fresh kill, as the head was lying in a pool of blood. The only tracks they found in the snow were those left by the tigress. She was the one who had killed the wild boar. As she was much smaller than the boar, the German again didn't believe the conclusion of the hunters. They were wrong. A decade ago or so, a 'rehabilitation' center was started in Primorye. In the center, orphaned young tigers, often only a few months old, are taught how to hunt. When they are about 18 months of age, they're released. The collar enables researchers to follow the young tigers. The information collected in this way says the youngsters are good hunters. Not one of them perished in the Russian winter and all tigers avoided human settlements. The researchers were surprised to find that the young tigers were able to kill even big wild boars. And big is big in the Russian Far East. The Ussuri wild boar is the largest of all subspecies. I assume you know that one of the orphans, also known as 'Putin's tiger', made headlines some years ago. The reason is he had killed 2 bears interested in his wild boars. One bear was too decomposed to get to conclusions, but the other was a 3-4 year old brown bear. I know a brown bear of that age is very different from an adult male brown bear, but the info I have says male (they thought one of the bears killed by 'Putin's tiger' was a male) brown bears of that age can be quite large in the Russian Far East. There is good information about the size of Ussuri wild boars on the internet (referring to a number of studies), but photographs are interesting as well. Here's a photograph of G. Jankowski with a number of wild boars shot in the northern part of Korea in the early twenties of the last century. I thought he shot 21 wild boars. They averaged 420 pounds (190,51 kg.) exactly:  *This image is copyright of its original author I'm not saying a wild boar doesn't stand a chance against a wild Amur tiger (tigers have been killed by wild boars in the Russian Far East), but tigers do seem to prefer wild boars over all other animals. It may seem remarkable that an Amur tigress averaging about 265 pounds (120,2 kg.) these days is able to kill a heavier wild boar, but wild tigers are professional hunters able to kill large animals. I saw real fights between Amur tigresses and other animals in facilities and was amazed at what I saw. I'm not referring to strength, claws and teeth, but to something I would describe as sheer aggression and intensity. All big cats seem to have something special in that department. In captivity, nearly all big cats get to adulthood. In wild animals, only the most able and most clever get to adulthood. Luck no doubt is important as well, but ability often is decisive. Only few had the opportunity to witness a fight between a big cat and an adversary able to inflict serious damage. I read a few stories and will post them when I have time. (10-03-2019, 09:55 PM)peter Wrote:(10-03-2019, 07:59 PM)Shadow Wrote: This footage is from some movie, but still from about 1:10-1:40 it´s pretty interesting to watch. That wild boar is quite big. From some other videos it´s easy to see in which situations and positions predators are in risk to get wounded, they do time to time fight so, that boars head is under their body, while both are standing and attack has happened frontal. Overall this discussion, as so many similar ones have gone partially to wrong path. I mean it, that we are talking about quite rare incidents, when wild boars injure seriously or kill tigers. Normally tiger kills wild boar. It is just so, that no big cat is invulnerable and some prey animals are challenging, wild boar is one of those prey animals, which can punish inexperienced or sloppy hunter. Many videos show, that even apex predators make sometimes mistakes in judgement, tiger is no exception. Not often, but some miscalculations have been seen even in video clips. Why I find that movie clip interesting wasn´t because of that tiger and what it did. Reason was that wild boar and what it did. How it didn´t just run away, it turned and rammed to that tiger. Also interesting to look at it how it shook head pretty viciously near tiger. With some luck that kind of moves can cause injuries when tusks cut skin. That movie was of course edited and not too much good footage. Still that short part, where those animals really fought gave a hint about it, that why wild boars are considered dangerous prey.
simonjamesnaylor
Last resting place. Found this old male leopard (still warm to the touch) under the shade of a date palm. Close to a puddle of water. He had just succumbed to his injuries sustained either in a fight with another male or whilst hunting perhaps warthog or Bush pig. Deep infected wounds into his stomach was too much to bear. Estimated this guy over 10 years judging by the discolouration of his chipped old and missing teeth. Battle scars on his ripped nose and tattered ears. He was still in good condition and well fed. This scenario has probably played out for thousands of years but often not seen by us. Only the fittest survive. The smallest mistake can be costly. Have no doubt another male will move into his space within days to pass on new genes #naturalselection in motion. But had to admire his beauty and perfection 
https://www.facebook.com/SabiSabiReserve/photos/pcb.2419555531425417/2419546598092977/?type=3&source=48
"Our day started off great by finding a younger male leopard accompanied by an older male. There was no altercation and they parted ways. As the younger male was heading through the bush, he spotted some warthog out their burrow and locked on to them with a piercing stare, but he was not alone… a young lioness also had her eyes on the warthog. She noticed the leopard stalking the same warthog as herself but remained still. The leopard gave chase and noticed the lioness also giving chase. He quickly changed his direction and lay motionless with an intense stare down between to two felines."  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
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