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Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
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Felids Interactions - Interspecific Conflicts
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 This image is after the Jaguar had attacked an otter cub, it then went to finish the cub off and was promptly attacked by the other otters.  (09-21-2019, 02:24 PM)Richardrli Wrote: Not that I'd encourage it, but a brawl between these two would be quite interestingAn average Pantanal Jag would most likely have a 20kg advantage over the rainforest Leopard and a larger sized one could have up to a 50kg advantage while having a much more powerful bite. I think it'd be more like a predator, prey situation tbh, much like a Leopard/Cheetah dynamic.
I was referring to this specific monster leopard, quite possibly the biggest we have some evidence for, just look at the size of the frigging thing! How big do you think the jaguar is BTW?
(09-21-2019, 07:23 PM)Richardrli Wrote: I was referring to this specific monster leopard, quite possibly the biggest we have some evidence for, just look at the size of the frigging thing! How big do you think the jaguar is BTW? There are plenty of comparable Leopards to that one and none have been 100kg, Pantanal Jags are easily 100kg and in Northern Pantanal they are even larger, more likely you're talking about a 80-90kg Leopard against a Jaguar that can weigh up to 150kg.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author If we were to say an average 100kg Jag vs a giant 90kg leopard I'd still favor the Jag because of its jaw power. Although I do think the Leopard could put up a nice fight. But based off of actual sizes and not speculation, the Jaguar is far to large for a Leopard and thus like all cats, the smaller one usually becomes prey to the larger when they meet. Even when a Leopard looks massive from a flattering angle like here with this Ethiopian  *This image is copyright of its original author It's still not in the same class as a Large Pantanal Jag. The image below gives you a better idea of the Ethiopians true size.  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (09-21-2019, 02:24 PM)Richardrli Wrote: Not that I'd encourage it, but a brawl between these two would be quite interesting I think, that really big leopard with average jaguar would be really tough fight. But hopefully we never see one, because that would be caused by people having those in captivity. 
The leopard which @Richardrli posted was estimated to have weighed 100kg. Said to be "as large as a lioness". I think it's safe to say that this specimen would've been around the size of an average Pantanal male jaguar.
Quote:It's still not in the same class as a Large Pantanal Jag. The image below gives you a better idea of the Ethiopians true size. Here's what a 89kg looks like compared to a relatively large man:  *This image is copyright of its original author So regarding the hypothetical fight: the weight advantage of the jaguar would be minimal. Having a more powerful bite will make no difference since the leopard has a strong bite itself, strong enough to do equal damage as the jaguar (minus the skull biting). The leopard has its own advantages, their massive neck and dewlap should be considered as an advantage. Fine example of a male with a very muscular neck and massive dewlap:  *This image is copyright of its original author The leopard and cheetah hierarchy makes no sense since we're talking about an animal that doesn't have the capability to bring down a leopard. It's also severely outclassed physically. Meanwhile leopards and jaguars have a similarly build. They would probably be sympatric; avoiding each other whenever possible. Just like the cougar and jaguar Since we're talking about two specific individuals, I'd say it would be a close fight in this case. (09-21-2019, 11:38 PM)Luipaard Wrote: The leopard which @Richardrli posted was estimated to have weighed 100kg. Said to be "as large as a lioness". I think it's safe to say that this specimen would've been around the size of an average Pantanal male jaguar. How would a much stronger bite have no advantage? A dewlap serves no purpose for protection nor could it do anything against a cat which makes its living off of puncturing skulls. Also, their build isn't similar, a Leopard is much lighter in frame when comparing both, jags look packed to the brim while leopards generally have an all around smaller more fragile body composition. Fact is, 100kg leopard hasn't been weighed while 100kg for a Pantanal Jag is small. If you have to discount one animal and exaggerate another to make a fair comparison then I think that should be proof in itself. (09-21-2019, 07:41 PM)Pckts Wrote:(09-21-2019, 07:23 PM)Richardrli Wrote: I was referring to this specific monster leopard, quite possibly the biggest we have some evidence for, just look at the size of the frigging thing! How big do you think the jaguar is BTW? (09-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-21-2019, 11:38 PM)Luipaard Wrote: The leopard which @Richardrli posted was estimated to have weighed 100kg. Said to be "as large as a lioness". I think it's safe to say that this specimen would've been around the size of an average Pantanal male jaguar. Quote:How would a much stronger bite have no advantage?Becouse the leopard has a powerful bite itself? Especially considering big cats usually grapple instead of going for the skull. The jaguar has a disadvantage with its shorter limbs. Quote:A dewlap serves no purpose for protection nor could it do anything against a cat which makes its living off of puncturing skulls. It's loose skin, it will always come in handy. Quote:Also, their build isn't similar, a Leopard is much lighter in frame when comparing both, jags look packed to the brim while leopards generally have an all around smaller more fragile body composition There you have it. People always generalize leopards seeing it as a one species. For instance, Persian leopards generally have a larger frame compared to subspecies. Also, their build is more similar compared to leopard and a cheetah. Quote:If you have to discount one animal and exaggerate another to make a fair comparison then I think that should be proof in itself. Ironic how you exaggerate yourself: Quote:while 100kg for a Pantanal Jag is small 100kg is literally the average weight for a Pantanal male. Since when is the average seen as small? Isn't small considered below average? Quote:100kg leopard hasn't been weighed The 115kg Persian male was weighed  (09-23-2019, 02:27 AM)Sully Wrote: Thought this forum was made to avoid fight talk? lol Well, there are always situations, when people disagree and/or misunderstand each others from various reasons. Anyway since we don´t have jaguars and leopards on the same continent, there isn´t too much possibilities to do anything else than speculate. Then again we have pumas and jaguars, which have overlapping ranges and sizes too. I put here one article and one study, which are interesting, I´m not sure if been here before. This article seems to be related to quora, but the person writing isn´t some random poster: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/12/19/how-often-do-jaguars-and-pumas-meet-in-the-wild/#5ceeb87f3d43 And then this study, if not seen before, interesting to read. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312498238_Jaguar_interactions_with_pumas_and_prey_at_the_northern_edge_of_jaguars'_range Quote:Becouse the leopard has a powerful bite itself? Especially considering big cats usually grapple instead of going for the skull. The jaguar has a disadvantage with its shorter limbs.A Leopard does have a powerful bite, just not nearly as powerful as a Jaguars nor are their canines as robust. "Shorter Limbs" They are identical in their shoulder heights and I'd certainly wager that the N. Pantanal ones are even taller at the shoulder. Quote:It's loose skin, it will always come in handy.Comes in handy for what exactly? Cows have loose skin around their throats and are much larger yet they are easily taken and suffocated by big cats nor is there any connection to a dewlap and neck protection. Quote:Ironic how you exaggerate yourself:Exaggerate what exactly? I'm not the one claiming Lion sized Leopards. Quote:100kg is literally the average weight for a Pantanal male. Since when is the average seen as small? Isn't small considered below average?100kg Pantanal Jaguar is small, when you have verified ones weighing 150kg or 1.5 times larger how can you say otherwise? Not to mention, I'd guarantee there are a few in the North that'd be larger than that as well. Quote:The 115kg Persian male was weighedNot a chance it was done so correctly if it was even done at all. Also why it's not included in their weights, since the cat looks small, missing a paw and broken bones in it's back and forelimbs. The fact is they are in the 90kg and below, with more under 80kg than the other way around. Quote:There you have it. People always generalize leopards seeing it as a one species. For instance, Persian leopards generally have a larger frame compared to subspecies.Again, how do you figure this? Persians have a longer body on average while their weights significantly overlap any other large representation of Leopards. If anything they'd be slimmer in frame if their body length was measured the same as other Leopards. (09-22-2019, 05:56 PM)Pckts Wrote:(09-20-2019, 03:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: Scroll to see the Female Jag w/the Pup in it's jaws. "jaguaridproject This past week we documented the first jaguar giant otter predation event. This female jaguar we know as Ãgue has been stalking this otter den for over a month. We have seen her resting on top of their latrine and sleeping at the entrance of the den. 3 weeks ago we posted a video from our camera trap of her going into the den while the otters where inside. We aren’t sure why this otter family didn’t move their cubs to a safer den before this happened. The otters attacked Ãgue and got their cub back but it was too late for the cub, the powerful bite of the jaguar had already killed the cub. ———————————————————————— These wildlife interactions we witness here in Porto jofre are invaluable to understanding the conservation of these two apex predators. Please share with us any photos or videos of this event." Incase any of you were wondering about the capabilities of a River Otter clan, almost all I spoke with said if a Jaguar enters the water with a decent sized clan that the Jaguar would be dead. River Otters are extremely capable and vicious hunters. Young Crater Male running off Hyena's |
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