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Size comparisons
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  (07-11-2019, 06:19 AM)ShereKhan Wrote:(07-10-2019, 06:07 PM)epaiva Wrote: It is a Jaguar for sure, not a big one it was a young Jaguar or a small female. Ocelots weight up to 16 kilograms it was not a Ocelot. It was filmed in the Amazon of Brazil where Jaguars don't grow much normally weighting under 60 kilograms. It was a big Black Caiman at least 4 meters long It depends on which part of Brazil you are referring to, because Brazil is a fairly big and diverse country (https://web.archive.org/web/200712280610...razil.html). Generally, the rule is that the size of jaguars increases from north to south: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/, https://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservat...nst-pumas/ * Central or North American jaguars, ranging from southern USA and northern Mexico in the north, to Panama in the south, are fairly small, with those in the Camela-Cuixmala Biosphere Reserve on the Mexican coast of the Pacific, northern Mexico and Belize at least weighing about 50–60 kg (110–132 pounds), similar to average cougars: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...75E1DC9FF5, https://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservat...nst-pumas/ El Jefe the Arizonan jaguar, likely of Mexican origin: http://www.delhidailynews.com/news/El-Je...454851534/  *This image is copyright of its original author * Large male Northern South American jaguars (as in, South American jaguars north of the Amazon River) in the Amazonian region, which includes Guyana and Venezuela, may weigh 90–120 kg (200–260 lbs), with the average for male and female Venezuelan jaguars being respectively 95 kg (209.4 lbs) and 56.3 kg (124 lbs, similar to Central American males in Belize), and Venezuelan females weighing up to 90 kg (200 lbs): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/, https://web.archive.org/web/201006202310...1-0001.pdf, https://books.google.com/books?id=T37sFC...&q&f=false Northern South American jaguar in Guyana: https://phys.org/news/2013-01-guyana-ple...guars.html  *This image is copyright of its original author * Certain Southern South American jaguars (as in, South American jaguars south of the Amazon River) from the Pantanal region are the largest of the species, with lengths of about 2.7 m (8.9 ft), and average weights of 94.8 kg (209 lbs) for males and 77.7 kg (171 lbs) for females (https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-S...6-0301.pdf). Some individuals weighed up to or more than 135 kg (298 lbs): https://web.archive.org/web/200712280610...razil.html, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/ Pantanal jaguar: https://www.tripadvisor.co.za/LocationPh...rosso.html  *This image is copyright of its original author
Forward from (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-crocodi...ion?page=6), there was a controversy over a video of a caiman defecating the carcass of a felid, identified as a jaguar, in Brazil:
There have been arguments that this could be a female or juvenile jaguar, or even another felid species, such as an ocelot. About the jaguar, let me clarify what the situation is with its size: Generally, the size of jaguars increases from north to south: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/, https://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservat...nst-pumas/ * Central or North American jaguars, ranging from southern USA and northern Mexico in the north, to Panama in the south, are fairly small, with those in the Camela-Cuixmala Biosphere Reserve on the Mexican coast of the Pacific, northern Mexico and Belize at least weighing about 50–60 kg (110–132 pounds), similar to average cougars: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/...75E1DC9FF5, https://www.earthtouchnews.com/conservat...nst-pumas/ El Jefe the Arizonan jaguar, likely of Mexican origin: http://www.delhidailynews.com/news/El-Je...454851534/ *This image is copyright of its original author * Large male Northern South American jaguars (as in, South American jaguars north of the Amazon River) in the Amazonian region, which includes Guyana and Venezuela, may weigh 90–120 kg (200–260 lbs), with the average for male and female Venezuelan jaguars being respectively 95 kg (209.4 lbs) and 56.3 kg (124 lbs, similar to Central American males in Belize), and Venezuelan females weighing up to 90 kg (200 lbs): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/, https://web.archive.org/web/201006202310...1-0001.pdf, https://books.google.com/books?id=T37sFC...&q&f=false Northern South American jaguar in Guyana: https://phys.org/news/2013-01-guyana-ple...guars.html *This image is copyright of its original author * Certain Southern South American jaguars (as in, South American jaguars south of the Amazon River) from the Pantanal region are the largest of the species, with lengths of about 2.7 m (8.9 ft), and average weights of 94.8 kg (209 lbs) for males and 77.7 kg (171 lbs) for females (https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-S...6-0301.pdf). Some individuals weighed up to or more than 135 kg (298 lbs): https://web.archive.org/web/200712280610...razil.html, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4380383/ Pantanal jaguar: https://www.tripadvisor.co.za/LocationPh...rosso.html *This image is copyright of its original author
Pantanal jaguars aren't the largest... Those from Llanos, Venezuela are a little bit larger actually.
It's pretty much
(07-11-2019, 12:18 PM)Luipaard Wrote: Pantanal jaguars aren't the largest... Those from Llanos, Venezuela are a little bit larger actually. Do you have the links?
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That's incorrect, the Pantanal absolutely has the largest Jags on Earth. The weights are unmatched, infact when I mentioned Los Llanos to Paulo he said no way are they the same size. Considering Pantanal Jags hold the records for weights and skull size, I'd say he's right. In fact, Pantanal Jags have only been getting larger and there's actually a reason for it. 30 years ago Caiman we're extremely endangered here and since being protected their numbers have skyrocketed which is why you now see them everywhere . That has also directly correlated with a massive increase in Jag numbers here, just in the area I am, they have 65 confirmed different adult individual Jags, out of the 65 you have 10 or so habituated to man and they are finding new individuals every season. Sub Adult males are rarely seen here again once they leave, the reason is that the Jaguar competition is so high that they are pushed out usually not seen back here again, most of the big males here actually didnt even start in this area, they came here from other parts of the Pantanal and are usually unknown to Paulo and Paul. There is one exception to that rule and his name is Marley, I'll tell you guys about him and the others I saw when I get back to the states and can post images. Also, The Pantanal is much larger than Los Llanos with a much higher prey density and far better protection. You have Jaguars like Adriano who weighed 158kg *confirmed* and he's not even the largest Male here, there quite a few who are larger than him and of course there is no Jag anywhere else on earth that have reached that size, past or present.
@Shadow I think I have the right to answer despite being off-topic. @Pckts & @BorneanTiger
"Across their range, jaguars exhibit up to 100% variation in body mass (Sunquist and Sunquist, 2002) and this is likely to impact their hunting decisions, with the smallest forms being more similar to leopards in the size of their prey. For example, Hoogesteijn and Mondolfi (1996) found that floodplain jaguars were significantly larger [body mass: Llanos = 104.5 kg (males), 66.9 kg (females) and Pantanal = 99.5 kg (males), 76.7 kg (females)] than forest jaguars [body mass: Amazon = 83.6 kg (males), no data for femalesand Central American = 56.1 kg (males), 41.4 kg (females)]. This variability was also reflected in the diet of the populations, with the forest jaguars having a significantly lower mean weight of vertebrate prey at 5.8 kg, compared to 89 kg (including livestock) for floodplain jaguars (Hoogesteijn and Mondolfi,1996)" Source: Prey Preferences of the Jaguar Panthera onca Reflect the Post-Pleistocene Demise of Large Prey The difference is marginal though, as can be seen when looking at skull measurements:  *This image is copyright of its original author The title of 'largest jaguars' belongs to the Venezuelan jaguars. Another example: "Manaus, AM - A 72-kilogram jaguar caught in a snare trap surprised researchers at the Mamirauá Institute. In ten years of working in the Sustainable Development Reserve, they had not yet found such a large animal. Okay that in other regions, jaguars can reach almost twice this size. But it is that the jaguars of the Amazonian floodplain are much smaller than their relatives of the Pantanal and mainly of the Venezuelan cerrado. Galego, as the male was baptized, is 11 kilos more than the heaviest jaguar that the researchers had registered so far and 17 more than the average of the males captured in the RDS, according to what he told the site of the institution the researcher Emiliano Esterci Ramalho, from the Mamirauá Institute. The beast now carries a telemetry collar and is followed via satellite by the researchers. Biologist Rogério Fonseca, a professor at the Federal University of Amazonas, agrees that it is a large animal by Amazonian floodplain standards. He studies the interaction between jaguars and human populations and says that in the Pantanal, the jaguars reach 100 kilos. But the largest are in the Venezuelan cerrado. The biggest ever recorded was 140 KG, according to him."
Well I didn't start this discussion regarding jaguar sizes. I'm just making sure that false information isn't spread...
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"False information?" Again there is no Jaguar who has matched pantanal Jaguar size. Hence why the limited individuals taken are similar in males yet the females are significantly larger while no weights from anywhere have surpassed 158kg. Pantanal Jags have the largest average, largest skull size and largest weight on record. I'm literally surrounded by people who work with Pantera, lived in Venezuela, did research there and all over Latin america. Pantanal Jags are larger, they are far more abundant and far less persecuted. Do you know in Los Llanos they have learned that the Jags there have had to become active from 12-3 *hottest time of the day* so they can avoid humans, that's how bad the pressure is. Mods. You can move this to where you like, I just didnt have time to respond before I left.
You should read my post: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-crocodile-and-big-cats-interaction?pid=83798#pid83798
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(07-11-2019, 11:20 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Forward from (https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-crocodi...ion?page=6), there was a controversy over a video of a caiman defecating the carcass of a felid, identified as a jaguar, in Brazil: OK @
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I suggest you look up Peter Croshaw *sp* He worked with Fonseco and knows far more and he also says Pantanal Jags are larger as well. So you have weights unmatched in the Pantanal, skull sizes are larger and an increase in Caiman in the 1000s since the last study you posted were done. On top of that Los Llanos isn't even half the size of the pantanal, the prey base is far less and massive human conflict compared to a ban on all Jaguar hunting or any hunting in Brazil. Jaguar density is completed unmatched and their sizes have only been increasing since Caiman came back so strongly. Lastly again is all the experts I'm surrounded by who say the same, it's not a debate to be honest. You can even ask @epaiva and he'll say the same.
What comes to jaguar weight, panthera.org seems to have accepted maximum weight 158 kg. You guys for sure know better where it has been weighed. If I have understood right, that is Pantanal jaguar.
https://www.panthera.org/cat/jaguar So I guess, that it can be considered as reliable weight since accepted in there. (07-11-2019, 09:27 PM)Shadow Wrote: What comes to jaguar weight, panthera.org seems to have accepted maximum weight 158 kg. You guys for sure know better where it has been weighed. If I have understood right, that is Pantanal jaguar. Adrian is 100% confirmed and yes he's from the Pantanal. He's also not nearly the largest cat in the Pantanal, there are a few males there even larger than he. A male named Lightning and another male named Balwin are both larger, Paulo actually saw Balwin beat up Marley pretty bad which isn't easy because Marley is tenacious |
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