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Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
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Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project
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Even India is not ready to transfer Lions from one state to other. Politics
 (12-02-2014, 07:59 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: Even India is not ready to transfer Lions from one state to other. Politics Another problem is politically unstable situation in the middle east. I hope the current civil war in Iraq/Syria will finish soon...or at least will not spread to Turkey, Iran or other countries. 
Unfortunately, middle east = eternal instability. What a shame it would be to lose relocated wildlife
to human conflict. (12-02-2014, 08:33 PM)'chaos' Wrote: Unfortunately, middle east = eternal instability. What a shame it would be to lose relocated wildlife You are right :-( Turkey and Iran are quite safe right now, but no one knows what will be in 5 years (especially in the case of Iran). Perhaps Turkmenistan could be propriate home for lions but I´m not sure whether lions ever lived there...I think they didn´t... Lions lived also in Greece about 2500 years ago...but reintroduction of lions into Greece is beyond my imagination :-)  (12-02-2014, 02:27 PM)'Amnon242' Wrote:I assume you are going off of the single weights where the sizes of asiatic lions were equal to the sizes of west african lions. But there are more weights than that, and they show that the average of the asiatic lion is lower.(12-02-2014, 01:02 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:(12-02-2014, 12:32 AM)'chaos' Wrote: ~~ think the real tell, tell, is the inability to successful have prides and the smaller manes. The reason being, lions are pack hunters, thats how they are most successful. But being that the jungle doesn't allow many grazing creatures to congregate in large company, the pride doesn't serve a purpose.It also directly shows that they are smaller which is because they are not as succesful in that habitat. If you really compare, Lions from all over africa, the weight discrepency is nearly nothing. They are all extremely close in weight, max weights from all over can be more than others from areas with a higher average. You don't see that in Asiatic Lions, you don't see 250kg specimans, you don't see 200kg specimens usually. That is a sign that they are not as successful. In terms of prey availability, I'm not sure what they have in Gir, but Indian tigers are able to obtain massive size in similar conditions compared to a Asiatic lion. In terms of Tiger vs. Lion interaction, Of course a pride of lions will be too much for a tigress, but prides are very small in India, usually one or two sisters I believe. I am not saying that Lions have not adapted to live in India, they obviously have. I am saying they are'nt as successful as their African cousins. Hence why they have smaller manes, prides, and size. Those are the factors of a strong lion, are they not?
A couple of things about if Indian lions are actually African Lions,
Packer wrote  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author and a few more weights of Asiatic Lions, some from Zoo's where lions generally do better. Sr. No. Sex Age (years) Weight (kg) Source 1 Male 4 - 5 156 Sasan Research Station 2 Male 4 - 5 152 Caputred at Devalia 3 Male 4 - 5 146 Caputred at Devalia 4 Male 7 170 Sakkarbuag Zoo 5 Male Adult 184 Wild-Gir East 6 Male 9 - 10 165 Sasan Research Station 7 Male > 10 146 Sakkarbuag-Hadala 8 Male 10 - 11 157 Sasan Research Station 9 Male 10 - 11 148 Sasan Research Station 10 Male 9 - 10 162 Sasan Research Station 11 Male 12 148 Sakkarburg Zoo born 13 Male > 12 150 Sakkarbuag-Sasan 14 Male > 14 159 Sakkarbuag Jashadhar 15 Male Adult 157 Sakkarbuag Zoo-From Gir 16 Male 10 168 Sakkarbuag Zoo-From Gir 17 Male Very Old 150 Janak - from Gir Forest 19 Male Adult 157 Sarjit - from Costa Its hard to read this way, so here is the link http://leotigriselite.yuku.com/topic/594#.VH4-_cmmVXI Here is the largest Gir lions on record to ever have been shot and measured https://www.google.com/search?q=gir+lion...B466%3B800
Their African cousins were never hunted to the brink of extinction. Current estimates for Indian lions number over four
hundred. It was a fraction of that when protective measures were finally instituted. You get the point. Once they thrived. Sadly now, they barely survive. On top of that, they're generally an unhealthy lot. I believe it will take many years and generations to see a marked improvement in their overall wellbeing. I hope it' not too late and they pull through. 
If inbreeding is a problem, is it possible to slip in a few Africans? Or, are they not genetically compatable?
Oh they'e compatable for sure. It could be done, but who's going to do it? It would take a sincere
effort on many fronts and the logistics are difficult at best. Sure sounds like a good idea, though. (12-03-2014, 12:53 AM)'chaos' Wrote: Their African cousins were never hunted to the brink of extinction. Current estimates for Indian lions number over four 90% of wild lions have been hunted to near extinction. No Gir lions I have seen of any era, hunting record, or verified record have come close to the size attained by their African Cousins. This is dating back to as long as measurements of them have taken place. (12-03-2014, 02:16 AM)'brotherbear' Wrote: If inbreeding is a problem, is it possible to slip in a few Africans? Or, are they not genetically compatable?If you read the Packer article, Or the Valmik book, the Inbreeding, is actual the original species. They are supposedly all ancestors of African Lions and thats why their DNA is so surprisingly close to N. African Lions apparently. 
The two subspecies of lion show enough genetic differences that this occurred......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4101049.stm (12-03-2014, 12:33 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: I assume you are going off of the single weights where the sizes of asiatic lions were equal to the sizes of west african lions. But there are more weights than that, and they show that the average of the asiatic lion is lower.So what are the average weights of west/east/south african lions? Are there differencies? Do these differencies mean that some subspecies is more successful than other? And what about other felids - there is also variation in size among their subspecieses. Are bengal tigers more successful than sumatrans? Are captive amur tigers more successful than sundarban tigers? Are persian or amur leopards more successful than leopards from tropical rainforests? 250 kg lions...there could be couple of lions like that in Africa and not in India, but number of afican lions is 50-100 times higher. Asiatic lions and bengal tigers: yes, bengal tigers are bigger, but they are different species. You have to compare subspecieses of the same species, not different species (tigers with lions, leopards with jaguars and so on). Bengal tigers are 3-4 times bigger than indian leopards...and who is more successful, tiger or leopard? You have to compare african lions and their prey base with asiatic lions and their prey base. Tiger vs lion: asiatic prides are smaller, but lone tigress is no match for 2-3 lionesses. Smaller manes, size, prides: adaptation to different (more forested) environment. Who would do better in forest like Gir? Small pride of 160 kg lions with smaller manes or huge pride of 185 kg kruger lions with majestic manes? Sorry, but your "unsuccessful asiatic lion" reasoning is absolutely no way to go. (12-03-2014, 04:36 AM)'Siegfried' Wrote: The two subspecies of lion show enough genetic differences that this occurred...... Thats interesting. I wasnt aware of the attempt and outright failure. Thanks for posting this info.
Time will certainly reveal just how sincere the Indian government is about protecting and nurturing
the remaining lion population. Not much time left to formulate and execute a viable strategy to ensure their survival. Obviously, with lion numbers on the increase, finding new terrain for a growing populace will require a great deal of government involvement. Lets hope they can work it out. |
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