Largest Living wild lions ?

[chaos]

(08-29-2014, 11:52 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 10:07 PM)'chaos' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 09:33 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 05:26 AM)'chaos' Wrote:

(08-28-2014, 09:30 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-28-2014, 07:31 AM)'chaos' Wrote: That email was to Tigris. OK.............. Could the issue of fabrication or editing possibly
be a factor? Its common knowledge Paul's not exactly, ahhhh.....on the level shall I say. 






 

Take the email away, you still have Christina specifically saying it was not weighed.

I also am curious why you don't say the same in regards to Bolds email??





 

Well if you looked at Christina's email, you''ll see the lion she referred to was captured in 2011.
The lion that was weighed, was after Christina had left. It's all there in the email from Almero
Bosch. Christinas info was outdated. It appears Roflcopters did a little research on it himself
and according to his earlier post in this very thread, concluded the weight is legit. Any further
questions? Of course some choose to refuse its legitimate. To each his own.




 

Christina was absolutely there for the weighing, she wasn't there later on. The lion weighed on 2011 is the specific lion that is being discussed. Backed by image dates and email dates. Almero Bosch email is not any more trust worthy than any others and he wasn't even there during the capture. 
The end of the day, Christina was there, backed by date, pictures, her profile at the reserve is proof, here quotes are shown. 
She is the end all in this conversation IMO, of course. 

I don't know what info Copters has, but all the info that is available shows it to be estimated. If he or anybody else has something we haven't seen that proves it otherwise, I would be happy to accept it after we see it. 



 

Excuse me, am I missing something? Christina WAS there for the weighing? You've adamantly stated time and again
the lion WASNT  weighed, and that WAS based on Christinas email. I need to terminate any further correspondence on
this. Its become a farce debating with you. You started the holiday weekend already, I see. Have another for me. lol
Enjoy the holiday Pockets!


 

Obviously a misprint Chaos. [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
Take note, I show data, images, emails, Chaos shows^^^

Once again, in case there are any misunderstandings,
The lion was NOT weighed until PROVEN otherwise.
 

 

Misprint? What kind of drugs you taking pal? You used the word weighing and weighed. Reply

[GuateGojira]

Guys, this is already annoying. Are we going to return to discuss the same thing? [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

That poor lion is already dead and the guys in Timbavati already accept the figure. So, if this weight was real or not, is now unknown, as the guys in the area now will simply use the figure as a "flag". So, I don't see any point in continuing discussing this anymore.

Returning to the topic:
I have noted that lions in dryer areas seems to be heavier than those in more wooden places. For example, the lions in the dry Etosha are much larger than those from Serengeti, despite the fact that the prey density in these areas are very very very different.

What do you think about this? If this is the case, prey density is not "so" related with lion size, I think. Are this just exceptional cases, or the simple rule?
  Reply

[chaos]

(08-30-2014, 10:08 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Guys, this is already annoying. Are we going to return to discuss the same thing? [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

That poor lion is already dead and the guys in Timbavati already accept the figure. So, if this weight was real or not, is now unknown, as the guys in the area now will simply use the figure as a "flag". So, I don't see any point in continuing discussing this anymore.

Returning to the topic:
I have noted that lions in dryer areas seems to be heavier than those in more wooden places. For example, the lions in the dry Etosha are much larger than those from Serengeti, despite the fact that the prey density in these areas are very very very different.

What do you think about this? If this is the case, prey density is not "so" related with lion size, I think. Are this just exceptional cases, or the simple rule?
 

 

I believe prey density is a major factor in any predatory species attaining their maximum size, period. Lets just say
animals who eat less, will not be larger, agreed? 
  Reply

[sanjay]

According to me, prey density is important for increasing population. To attain bigger size they should prey on relatively large prey or inversely you can say those area where bigger size prey are available predators need more muscle power and big body dimension to take them down. Reply

[Amnon242]

(08-30-2014, 01:23 PM)sanjay Wrote: According to me, prey density is important for increasing population. To attain bigger size they should prey on relatively large prey or inversely you can say those area where bigger size prey are available predators need more muscle power and big body dimension to take them down.

Yes. More prey = more lions.
Bigger prey = bigger lions.


V. Mazak wrote that (in contrast to tiger) lions have quite low variability in size.

  Reply

[Pantherinae]

@Pckts it's about two different Lions from Timbawati.. One was an estimate and one was weighed! The last one The woman from The leopard project had Nothing to do with as she was not on that project! So one lion was actually 253 kg. Reply

[Pantherinae]

*This image is copyright of its original author

  Reply

[chaos]

(08-30-2014, 01:23 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: According to me, prey density is important for increasing population. To attain bigger size they should prey on relatively large prey or inversely you can say those area where bigger size prey are available predators need more muscle power and big body dimension to take them down.

 

Intersting take. Larger prey combined with prey density/availability will produce
maximum size. A logical assessment, I do believe. Reply

[Pckts]

(08-30-2014, 08:24 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

 

 

No name attached!
I like how the "WAS" is capitalized. That is a useless email without a single name given.
The only lion discussed is the one Christina was there for. The emails specifically mention it. This is a email to bold which is far more fishy than P Tigris would ever be.

Pantherinae, The same lion that is photoed is the specifically mentioned and Christina is the only one who was there that has responded, the images speak for themselves. There is no scale was present. Not to mention, what type of scale did they use to get this "alleged" weight. Mobile big cat scales usually don't go above 250kg, heck they often times don't go above 200kg or 227kg, which should be another question we are asking about this claim.

Lastly, look at the Date of the email. That is two years after the lion was already caught and measured.
  Reply

[Pckts]

(08-30-2014, 10:08 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Guys, this is already annoying. Are we going to return to discuss the same thing? [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

That poor lion is already dead and the guys in Timbavati already accept the figure. So, if this weight was real or not, is now unknown, as the guys in the area now will simply use the figure as a "flag". So, I don't see any point in continuing discussing this anymore.

Returning to the topic:
I have noted that lions in dryer areas seems to be heavier than those in more wooden places. For example, the lions in the dry Etosha are much larger than those from Serengeti, despite the fact that the prey density in these areas are very very very different.

What do you think about this? If this is the case, prey density is not "so" related with lion size, I think. Are this just exceptional cases, or the simple rule?
 

 

What are the differences between Etosha and Serengetti Lions?
How many individuals weighed are we comparing?

Like is shown on the one table, even though Kruger had the 3rd largest average lion population, it still had the largest male weighed. I really see very little difference in African lions weights, its usually a 5-10kg difference from the weights I see and that is negligible due to food.

I would agree that lions in "wooded areas" would be smaller since they are not as adapted for that terrain, but lions travel huge distances, just like the Serengeti lions that controlled two different prides in two different areas. So completely different populations of lions could still be very closely related.

I think prey density and size is one factor of different cat sizes, but looking at Kaziranga, I think terrain is another major factor. Marsh lands, tall grasses may also contribute to different morphology. Reply

[Pckts]

Heres what I found on Etosha Lions

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Credit to Tigerburningbright

*This image is copyright of its original author

'Largest male lion was 573lbs. Average weight of 16 males 4 years of age and older was 190kg[ 419lbs]
The average of 17 lionesses was 141kg[311lbs] "

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Lions were all baited here.



and Zimbabwe Lions
Pinky wrote
" zimbabwe lions average 175 kg from wilson study,

*This image is copyright of its original author

"

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

and Serengetti Lions

*This image is copyright of its original author

From the weights I see here, these lions all seem to be the same size more or less after deductions for baiting. Obviously slight differences but nothing that really proves one to be larger than the other.

Nice info on this page as well, Tigerburningbright seems to know his stuff.
http://animalsversesanimals.yuku.com/top...AIeVWOQk08 Reply

[chaos]

(08-30-2014, 11:07 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-30-2014, 09:41 AM)'chaos' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 11:52 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 10:07 PM)'chaos' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 09:33 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-29-2014, 05:26 AM)'chaos' Wrote:

(08-28-2014, 09:30 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(08-28-2014, 07:31 AM)'chaos' Wrote: That email was to Tigris. OK.............. Could the issue of fabrication or editing possibly
be a factor? Its common knowledge Paul's not exactly, ahhhh.....on the level shall I say. 








 

Take the email away, you still have Christina specifically saying it was not weighed.

I also am curious why you don't say the same in regards to Bolds email??







 

Well if you looked at Christina's email, you''ll see the lion she referred to was captured in 2011.
The lion that was weighed, was after Christina had left. It's all there in the email from Almero
Bosch. Christinas info was outdated. It appears Roflcopters did a little research on it himself
and according to his earlier post in this very thread, concluded the weight is legit. Any further
questions? Of course some choose to refuse its legitimate. To each his own.






 

Christina was absolutely there for the weighing, she wasn't there later on. The lion weighed on 2011 is the specific lion that is being discussed. Backed by image dates and email dates. Almero Bosch email is not any more trust worthy than any others and he wasn't even there during the capture. 
The end of the day, Christina was there, backed by date, pictures, her profile at the reserve is proof, here quotes are shown. 
She is the end all in this conversation IMO, of course. 

I don't know what info Copters has, but all the info that is available shows it to be estimated. If he or anybody else has something we haven't seen that proves it otherwise, I would be happy to accept it after we see it. 





 

Excuse me, am I missing something? Christina WAS there for the weighing? You've adamantly stated time and again
the lion WASNT  weighed, and that WAS based on Christinas email. I need to terminate any further correspondence on
this. Its become a farce debating with you. You started the holiday weekend already, I see. Have another for me. lol
Enjoy the holiday Pockets!




 

Obviously a misprint Chaos. [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
Take note, I show data, images, emails, Chaos shows^^^

Once again, in case there are any misunderstandings,
The lion was NOT weighed until PROVEN otherwise.
 



 

Misprint? What kind of drugs you taking pal? You used the word weighing and weighed.


 

Wow, what a rebutal.
I see you convienitely neglected to mention how you were wrong , Again!
I'm sorry, but you bring this site down with your absurdity and stubborness.



This place will be better off once you're gone. Just keep making these comments and im sure it will be sooner than later.
Kaos- "What kind of drugs you taking pal"


Sorry for the derailment, mods. Back to the topic at hand.



 

 

Actually, you would be the only one better off if I was gone. I sense anger and frustration, and I'm deeply saddened
you view me so negatively, but suck it up and be a man , because I'm not going anywhere. You take this L vs T much
too seriously and it shows. I suggest you take a chill pill, my friend. Reply

[Pckts]

Says the guy who insults me like a child and said that me and Tigerluver were the same person.
[img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

Nothing to do with L/T and everything to do with you and your "personality" and unneccassary acuisations and comments. 


  Reply

[chaos]

(08-31-2014, 05:45 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Says the guy who insults me like a child and said that me and Tigerluver were the same person.
[img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]

Nothing to do with L/T and everything to do with you and your "personality" and unneccassary acuisations and comments. 


 

 

What are you talking about? Yes you are childish, that's a given. I never said you and tigerluver were one and the same.
You're interpretive skills leave little to be desired, that's also a given. You seem to single me out, and that's not very bright
on your behalf. I"m going to leave this alone out of respect for the forums proprietors. You should likewise do the same.
  Reply

[Siegfried]

(08-30-2014, 11:12 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:  This is a email to bold which is far more fishy than P Tigris would ever be.


 

 

If the forum justice served by Sanjay and Peter on this ptigris person is any indication of his credibility, ptigris seems to be one of the least trustworthy of the regular members embroiled in the animal debate forums.  As experienced here, it seems he would do just about anything to further his personal agenda. Therefore, skepticism should applied to anything he might have offered regarding this and other topics.

  Reply