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First thing I thought when I saw that resume of the prides and dynamics in Manyeleti ( very well done by the way ) is that the Skorro pride is listed as having 12 females.
That means that the daughters of the Mbiri males must have reunited with the pride which is amazing news. I always wondered where they went, no way so many young lions would have vanished together. What a legacy, 4 adult Mayambula daughters, probably 6+ adult Skorro daughters, the 5 dominant Mayambula and almost 20 subs and cubs with Birmingham females.
Now I hope to see their Skorro sons showing up again.
Anyway, interesting that the Mbiri pride went low-profile and is scattered after Mandevu's fight, it could be that he was indeed following the pride North, reason why he met Mbiri males, it could be that the Mbiri pride was present during the clash.
Crazy how things change so fast, one day Mandevu and Nzuri are chasing Red Road who ousted his son, the other day Mandevu is dead and Red Road is bonding with the son. Poor Mbiri pride.
At least Nzuri is still roaring, his younger brother likes to roar as well, if the cub is dead, it'd be good for them to leave the pride and go nomadic, some new blood must take over the pride and finally raise a new generation.
(03-17-2025, 10:16 PM)Mapokser Wrote: First thing I thought when I saw that resume of the prides and dynamics in Manyeleti ( very well done by the way ) is that the Skorro pride is listed as having 12 females.
That means that the daughters of the Mbiri males must have reunited with the pride which is amazing news. I always wondered where they went, no way so many young lions would have vanished together. What a legacy, 4 adult Mayambula daughters, probably 6+ adult Skorro daughters, the 5 dominant Mayambula and almost 20 subs and cubs with Birmingham females.
Now I hope to see their Skorro sons showing up again.
Anyway, interesting that the Mbiri pride went low-profile and is scattered after Mandevu's fight, it could be that he was indeed following the pride North, reason why he met Mbiri males, it could be that the Mbiri pride was present during the clash.
Crazy how things change so fast, one day Mandevu and Nzuri are chasing Red Road who ousted his son, the other day Mandevu is dead and Red Road is bonding with the son. Poor Mbiri pride.
At least Nzuri is still roaring, his younger brother likes to roar as well, if the cub is dead, it'd be good for them to leave the pride and go nomadic, some new blood must take over the pride and finally raise a new generation.
That’s really impressive. At what age did their reign start?
(03-17-2025, 10:16 PM)Mapokser Wrote: First thing I thought when I saw that resume of the prides and dynamics in Manyeleti ( very well done by the way ) is that the Skorro pride is listed as having 12 females.
That means that the daughters of the Mbiri males must have reunited with the pride which is amazing news. I always wondered where they went, no way so many young lions would have vanished together. What a legacy, 4 adult Mayambula daughters, probably 6+ adult Skorro daughters, the 5 dominant Mayambula and almost 20 subs and cubs with Birmingham females.
Now I hope to see their Skorro sons showing up again.
Anyway, interesting that the Mbiri pride went low-profile and is scattered after Mandevu's fight, it could be that he was indeed following the pride North, reason why he met Mbiri males, it could be that the Mbiri pride was present during the clash.
Crazy how things change so fast, one day Mandevu and Nzuri are chasing Red Road who ousted his son, the other day Mandevu is dead and Red Road is bonding with the son. Poor Mbiri pride.
At least Nzuri is still roaring, his younger brother likes to roar as well, if the cub is dead, it'd be good for them to leave the pride and go nomadic, some new blood must take over the pride and finally raise a new generation.
Have the Mbiris ever had a pride, or even territory, taken from them, or have they simply abandoned them all, choosing to move to greener pastures? For me, part of what makes their history most impressive, is the sheer number of prides with which they have had cubs, cubs that have reached adulthood. It is incredible to think about.
(03-18-2025, 12:17 AM)BA0701 Wrote: Have the Mbiris ever had a pride, or even territory, taken from them, or have they simply abandoned them all, choosing to move to greener pastures?
Yes, Nharhus ousted them from part of their territory in Timbavati and River Pride in 2019, they had quite a few close calls vs them, Shaka mauled quite badly few times, Scar also with injuries.
(03-16-2025, 10:27 PM)MrLoesoe Wrote: Nharu pride, including cubs, Red Road male and his son.
I count 6 females (probably also one or more RR daughters), 5 cubs (progressing nicely!). Red Road and his son are chilling in the back.
If there are 6 lionesses (I counted the same) then at least two of them are RR's daughters, as there are only 4 lionesses that are not his offspring - 3 original and 1 Thanda Impi daughter.
Edit: Lol see the post above mine.
The old female with broken tail/silver eye (14-15 years old) is mother of 3 cubs, she is always with a middle aged female who has 2 cubs (by elimination, Tintswalo daughter, 8-9 years old). There is another young female with 1 cub (RRM daughter?) that has been seen with the other 2 mothers. The remaining females are usually with RRM son, but none of them seem to be old... So I strongly suspect that two of old females passed away...
If this is true (and it certainly looks like one of Red Road's daughters has had cubs, then either she and her sisters/cousins have been sneaking off for some fun with other males, or what I have been concerned about has started to happen - Red Road has sired cubs on one of his daughters.
I know everyone loves RR, as do I, but it's really time he was ousted from the Nharu pride. They've got 3 aging lionesses (maybe fewer), one Thanda Impi daughter and then RR's girls. If this pride is to have a future, and not an inbred one, then new males need to come in.
(03-16-2025, 10:27 PM)MrLoesoe Wrote: Nharu pride, including cubs, Red Road male and his son.
I count 6 females (probably also one or more RR daughters), 5 cubs (progressing nicely!). Red Road and his son are chilling in the back.
If there are 6 lionesses (I counted the same) then at least two of them are RR's daughters, as there are only 4 lionesses that are not his offspring - 3 original and 1 Thanda Impi daughter.
Edit: Lol see the post above mine.
The old female with broken tail/silver eye (14-15 years old) is mother of 3 cubs, she is always with a middle aged female who has 2 cubs (by elimination, Tintswalo daughter, 8-9 years old). There is another young female with 1 cub (RRM daughter?) that has been seen with the other 2 mothers. The remaining females are usually with RRM son, but none of them seem to be old... So I strongly suspect that two of old females passed away...
If this is true (and it certainly looks like one of Red Road's daughters has had cubs, then either she and her sisters/cousins have been sneaking off for some fun with other males, or what I have been concerned about has started to happen - Red Road has sired cubs on one of his daughters.
I know everyone loves RR, as do I, but it's really time he was ousted from the Nharu pride. They've got 3 aging lionesses (maybe fewer), one Thanda Impi daughter and then RR's girls. If this pride is to have a future, and not an inbred one, then new males need to come in.
Let us not forget Loonkito, who I read was reported to have fathered cubs with his own granddaughter. It certainly isn't optimal, or what we like to see, but it does happen, if the males are able to remain with the same pride for such an extended period. Tbf, we have to admire the males, especially the single males like RRM and Loonkito, who are able to maintain their dominance over a single pride for so long. When I first started following lions, I felt like the males should stay with the prides as long as possible, as I learned more, I came to understand that my thinking was entirely off the mark. For as long as the Ross Males ruled the Birmingham Pride, I don't recall reading that they ever bred with their daughters, so I suppose it is possible.
I posted the video, yesterday, post #3728 of this thread, that says it is one of the Nharu lionesses with a new baby cub. It appears the claim is correct, and as such that RRM is a new father, again, but I cannot say which lioness, if she is one of his daughters or not, that is in the video.
(03-18-2025, 02:12 AM)NLAL11 Wrote: They've got 3 aging lionesses (maybe fewer), one Thanda Impi daughter and then RR's girls. If this pride is to have a future, and not an inbred one, then new males need to come in.
I dont think all 3 original lionesses are still alive, maybe 2, i only recognize silver eyed female.
(03-18-2025, 02:12 AM)NLAL11 Wrote: They've got 3 aging lionesses (maybe fewer), one Thanda Impi daughter and then RR's girls. If this pride is to have a future, and not an inbred one, then new males need to come in.
I dont think all 3 original lionesses are still alive, maybe 2, i only recognize silver eyed female.
Wouldn't surprise me at all considering how old they are. That means that even more of the lionesses still in the pride are most likely RR's daughters.
(03-16-2025, 10:27 PM)MrLoesoe Wrote: Nharu pride, including cubs, Red Road male and his son.
I count 6 females (probably also one or more RR daughters), 5 cubs (progressing nicely!). Red Road and his son are chilling in the back.
If there are 6 lionesses (I counted the same) then at least two of them are RR's daughters, as there are only 4 lionesses that are not his offspring - 3 original and 1 Thanda Impi daughter.
Edit: Lol see the post above mine.
The old female with broken tail/silver eye (14-15 years old) is mother of 3 cubs, she is always with a middle aged female who has 2 cubs (by elimination, Tintswalo daughter, 8-9 years old). There is another young female with 1 cub (RRM daughter?) that has been seen with the other 2 mothers. The remaining females are usually with RRM son, but none of them seem to be old... So I strongly suspect that two of old females passed away...
If this is true (and it certainly looks like one of Red Road's daughters has had cubs, then either she and her sisters/cousins have been sneaking off for some fun with other males, or what I have been concerned about has started to happen - Red Road has sired cubs on one of his daughters.
I know everyone loves RR, as do I, but it's really time he was ousted from the Nharu pride. They've got 3 aging lionesses (maybe fewer), one Thanda Impi daughter and then RR's girls. If this pride is to have a future, and not an inbred one, then new males need to come in.
I agree, nevertheless it will be a sad day when it happens as Nharu Pride will likely be his last ever pride he's dominant over.
By the way now we're turning a page on the Tinstwalo coalition after they've all passed, and I mean on their lives in general, obviously they will still continue to be remembered in here, I still think RRM is due so much credit. This a solo male who has spent years dominating his own pride on top of tryna expend whether both pride or territory, on top of being a veteran fighter. He underwent serious beatings or atleast being pressured by Tintswalos, or from unknown males in KNP, on top of Kambula boys, and still does his thing.
That, to me, is my favourite thing about him, the whole 'f it I'm still here so let's make the most of it.' His self confidence is completely off the charts and I guess that comes from being a solitary male for so long, he knows nobody is coming to save him unlike a big coalition who are very much trusting in each other for their own wellbeing. KM is very much like that in his own way too.
Saw this on the FB group Lion sightings for the lion dynamics in Manyeleti.
Credits to Michelle Stemm from FB
*This image is copyright of its original author
***Updated- Lions of the Manyeleti***
I’ve compiled what I could and then had a lot of help pulling this altogether from the experts including: Ahmed Al Odaini, Aruna Pavithran, Ignacio Alejandro Crea, Gabriel Hitner, Tim Grove, Melanie Boyer, Frankie Kenneth, and Matt Crookes (Guide) who I’m very grateful to.
If I’ve missed anything, or you have more details, please do let me know. The information I’m looking for is the birth month/year, of each individual (if known), who sired them, any individuals I might have missed or that need updating.
Prides of Manyeleti:
Birmingham Pride (Superpride) - included in Timbavati list
Skorro Pride:
- 12 adult Females
- new cubs
Dominant males: Mongawane males - Osindile YBM & Torchwood male, sired by Brutus, Giraffe male; and Nhenha, Birmingham.
Mbiri Pride:
- 5 Females (not sure what happened to the 6th female)
- 1 subadult male
- 1 cub (not seen for a few months, suspected it has not made it)
Dominant male/s: TBC Mbiri males (Shaka & Zig Zag) have been with the pride on and off recently. Will need to see how this situation develops in time. Orpen male Nzuri was in a coalition with Mandevu (Tinswalo Coalition) & they were the dominant males of this pride.
Notes from Matt: (Mbiri pride has been extremely quiet after the fight with mandevu and the mbiri males. They have been around the north of the Manyeleti and all split up for now.)
Nharhu Pride:
• 5 Females (should be 9 females but it's been very hard to account for all)
-3 Original Matriarchs
1 Thanda Impi
- 5 RR daughters
- 1 subadult male
- 6 cubs with the newest born in February 2025.
Dominant male: Red Road
Notes from Matt:
1. The pride has split up now due to three females giving birth to cubs. The three females keep all the cubs together. Red road staying with those three females and then going off to patrol his territory. Maybe once a week we see the pride come together.
2. Red Roads son and the female that is collard in the Nharu pride spent a lot of time together and sometimes joined by another female.
3. Last week I had a sighting of the collard female and red road son with another young male. Looked to be smaller than red roads son but I am struggling to ID him at the moment. ***Think this is one of the young Monwana males***
4. Red Roads son that is a little older than the current pride male every now and then visits the Manyeleti but not often.
Imbali Pride:
- 4 Females
- 3 or 4 cubs b. early 2025 or Dec 2024 (s8 daughter is their mother).
* Mbiri coalition - 2 males, Zig Zag & Shaka (would not call them Manyeleti just yet. They enter sporadically)
* Tintswalo coalition - 2 males - Mandevu & Nzuri (Orpen male) - as of 5 March 2025 this coalition is no longer with Mandevu losing his life after suffering major injuries from the two Mbiri males. Mandevu was born in early 2016 making him 9 years old & in his prime when he lost his life.
* Mongawane coalition - 2 males, Osindile YBM b. late 2016 & Torchwood male (same as Mbiris. Not really part of Manyeleti)
* Red Road
* Mantimahle Coalition - 2 males, Dark Maned & Ginger
* Monwana males have been in the area lately.
Notes from Matt: Monwana males, have moved back toward mbiri pride territory, they have been seen all the way from Tintswalo airstrip to kokhamoya dam. They have been hanging around in the area. They also were in very close proximity to Nzuri a couple days ago. Nzuri roared and there was no response from the Monwana males.
(03-17-2025, 11:09 PM)Dangeroscos Wrote:
(03-17-2025, 10:16 PM)Mapokser Wrote: First thing I thought when I saw that resume of the prides and dynamics in Manyeleti ( very well done by the way ) is that the Skorro pride is listed as having 12 females.
That means that the daughters of the Mbiri males must have reunited with the pride which is amazing news. I always wondered where they went, no way so many young lions would have vanished together. What a legacy, 4 adult Mayambula daughters, probably 6+ adult Skorro daughters, the 5 dominant Mayambula and almost 20 subs and cubs with Birmingham females.
Now I hope to see their Skorro sons showing up again.
Anyway, interesting that the Mbiri pride went low-profile and is scattered after Mandevu's fight, it could be that he was indeed following the pride North, reason why he met Mbiri males, it could be that the Mbiri pride was present during the clash.
Crazy how things change so fast, one day Mandevu and Nzuri are chasing Red Road who ousted his son, the other day Mandevu is dead and Red Road is bonding with the son. Poor Mbiri pride.
At least Nzuri is still roaring, his younger brother likes to roar as well, if the cub is dead, it'd be good for them to leave the pride and go nomadic, some new blood must take over the pride and finally raise a new generation.
That’s really impressive. At what age did their reign start?
(03-19-2025, 02:21 PM)KM600 Wrote: By the way now we're turning a page on the Tinstwalo coalition after they've all passed, and I mean on their lives in general, obviously they will still continue to be remembered in here, I still think RRM is due so much credit. This a solo male who has spent years dominating his own pride on top of tryna expend whether both pride or territory, on top of being a veteran fighter. He underwent serious beatings or atleast being pressured by Tintswalos, or from unknown males in KNP, on top of Kambula boys, and still does his thing.
That, to me, is my favourite thing about him, the whole 'f it I'm still here so let's make the most of it.' His self confidence is completely off the charts and I guess that comes from being a solitary male for so long, he knows nobody is coming to save him unlike a big coalition who are very much trusting in each other for their own wellbeing. KM is very much like that in his own way too.
I very much agree, and also the fact that he got snared, and was at one point sort of rejected by his own pride, after a fight with Tintswalos which resulted in quite a bad limp. He got through it all.
03-21-2025, 12:51 AM( This post was last modified: 03-21-2025, 12:52 AM by MrLoesoe )
The Remaining Son of Red Road a.k.a. the young Nharu male - as a cub
Now that the remaining son of Red Road, the young Nharu male, is growing into an adult male and seems to have a great bond with his father, and is the only male offspring of Red Road that we are still able to follow and possibly the only one alive, I wanted to dive a bit deeper into his history. As we all know the young Nharu male has got a bit of a goofy face (the left side of his lip is higher than the right side), due to a jaw or lip that is assymetrical, so I thought: maybe he was recognizable as a cub. And he is :)
I watched all Tintswalo videos from the time he should have been born and I think I found footage of him. It turns out he was born with this goofy mouth, or he got it from a very very young age. As he became older, and obviously his jaw and face grew, it became more prominent.
This first photo below, was the first time he was filmed. Since the video was published on 6 June 2020, I think he was born March or April 2020. So basically the young Nharu male is (almost) 5 years old now. He was born into a litter of four. I think by one of the older lionesses, but I am not 100% sure. As you can see, his mouth is already a bit 'displaced' from this very young age.
Footage starts at 5:28:
He grew up during a time where there were a lot of cubs in the Nharu pride (15+). There were at least three litters. I think he was part of the second litter (first and second were quite close to eachother). During this time a lot of cubs caught mange and were underfed, including the young Nharu male, as you can see below, in very weak condition.
The most special footage I found was the one below, where his father, Red Road, is cleaning / bonding with him. And other family members are in the back. It seems father and son have always had a great bond. Perhaps that plays a role in the fact that he is still with the pride in 2025.
The bonding of RR and his son starts at 2:58 in the video below:
As the young Nharu male grew up, a lot of his siblings disappeared. Below you can see him age 1.5+:
Again bonding with RR:
At some point, he had three brothers, so four male cubs / subadults in total. Unfortunately, his brothers disappeared.
At almost 5 years old, this is him now:
(All photos attached are screenshotted from Tintswalo Lodge videos.)
(03-21-2025, 12:51 AM)MrLoesoe Wrote: The Remaining Son of Red Road a.k.a. the young Nharu male - as a cub
Now that the remaining son of Red Road, the young Nharu male, is growing into an adult male and seems to have a great bond with his father, and is the only male offspring of Red Road that we are still able to follow and possibly the only one alive, I wanted to dive a bit deeper into his history. As we all know the young Nharu male has got a bit of a goofy face (the left side of his lip is higher than the right side), due to a jaw or lip that is assymetrical, so I thought: maybe he was recognizable as a cub. And he is :)
I watched all Tintswalo videos from the time he should have been born and I think I found footage of him. It turns out he was born with this goofy mouth, or he got it from a very very young age. As he became older, and obviously his jaw and face grew, it became more prominent.
This first photo below, was the first time he was filmed. Since the video was published on 6 June 2020, I think he was born March or April 2020. So basically the young Nharu male is (almost) 5 years old now. He was born into a litter of four. I think by one of the older lionesses, but I am not 100% sure. As you can see, his mouth is already a bit 'displaced' from this very young age.
Footage starts at 5:28:
He grew up during a time where there were a lot of cubs in the Nharu pride (15+). There were at least three litters. I think he was part of the second litter (first and second were quite close to eachother). During this time a lot of cubs caught mange and were underfed, including the young Nharu male, as you can see below, in very weak condition.
The most special footage I found was the one below, where his father, Red Road, is cleaning / bonding with him. And other family members are in the back. It seems father and son have always had a great bond. Perhaps that plays a role in the fact that he is still with the pride in 2025.
The bonding of RR and his son starts at 2:58 in the video below:
As the young Nharu male grew up, a lot of his siblings disappeared. Below you can see him age 1.5+:
Again bonding with RR:
At some point, he had three brothers, so four male cubs / subadults in total. Unfortunately, his brothers disappeared.
At almost 5 years old, this is him now:
(All photos attached are screenshotted from Tintswalo Lodge videos.)
Is there any photos of other 3 males pass sub age?
I only saw 1 another male and its from that video from 2022, while remaining male was regulary seen and filmed.
All those stories about them, leaving and returning to pride from 2023/24, but no sightings/photos of them after 2022 (as far as i am aware, maybe i miss something).
