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Nkuhuma Pride
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I'm not surprised if PCM did it because they had killed lionesses in the past for basically no reason.
R.I.P. chela, this breaks my heart.  (04-28-2024, 11:37 PM)afortich Wrote: I'm not surprised if PCM did it because they had killed lionesses in the past for basically no reason. Well, it might look to us that its for no reason. But, dominant males, when they encounter other females, if those females are not potential mates (pregnant, have cubs, not in estrus yet etc.) to them there is no value in them, they see them as every other competition out there, like other males, leopards, hyenas etc. and will attack her and potentially kill her if they can, especially if she is not submissive to them, although sometimes even that doesnt help. If they have cubs and are submissive, they will spare her and kill her cubs to bring her back in estrus. PCMs never killed any female who was their potential mate (if i remember correctly they only killed female subs, heavily pregnant Tsalala is only adult they killed so far), even today we saw them in company of NK female in estrus, they did nothing to her. Thats just how lion nature works, because of that, having strong territorial pride males is very important for pride safety and stability, unfortunately, NKs dont have that for a while, so other males can just come to them and do what they want. Females in estrus are safe, but those who arent, are not. (04-28-2024, 11:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(04-28-2024, 11:37 PM)afortich Wrote: I'm not surprised if PCM did it because they had killed lionesses in the past for basically no reason. I agree with you bro. However, I didn't say "no reason" but "basically no reason", and all I'm saying is that these boys apparently had killed more lionesses compared to other territorial lions in sabi sand. (04-29-2024, 12:00 AM)afortich Wrote: I agree with you bro. However, I didn't say "no reason" but "basically no reason", and all I'm saying is that these boys apparently had killed more lionesses compared to other territorial lions in sabi sand. They only killed older Tsalala female until now, who was heavily pregnant. Others where subs and cubs, which would be attacked in same manner by every other territorial coalition. 
Lions see other lionesses that aren't in estrous, mating with them, or kin, as potentially just another competition for prey that they need to eliminate, especially if they are not submissive enough. We don't know how submissive Chela was or if she was plain caught and taken by surprise. It was a mayhem of lions during the night, so either could be the case. It's too bad as she had at least another 4-5 years of life ahead if she had stayed healthy. Now all of the Matimba daughters are gone. Chela looked so much more like them, particularly HB, than Nana, her mother.
(04-29-2024, 12:10 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(04-29-2024, 12:00 AM)afortich Wrote: I agree with you bro. However, I didn't say "no reason" but "basically no reason", and all I'm saying is that these boys apparently had killed more lionesses compared to other territorial lions in sabi sand. I understand what you're saying but it is an undeniable fact that PC boys have killed more lionesses (adults or subadults) than Nzengas, Gijimas, Tintswalo, etc. (04-29-2024, 12:18 AM)afortich Wrote: I understand what you saying but it is an undeniable fact that PC boys have killed more lionesses (adults or subadults) than Nzengas, Gijimas, Tintswalo, etc. For what we know and assume. We have basically no evidence that PCMs did all those killing, its basically a guess. Maybe Mhangenis or NK breakaways killed Tsalala, or sub Talamati and sub NK female, as they where all killed in those prides territory. All those deaths where "given" to PCMs, but in the end, we dont exactly know. For example, when 3 SP females killed oldest Styx female, if it was not witnesses, that death would prob be "given" to Gijimas aswell, with explanation that she defended her subs. 
The north is in chaos lately, this is bad for the Nkuhuma pride, honestly I'm rooting for the PCM to just retreat to the west even though it's difficult as there are females willing to mate at the moment, unfortunately no other coalition is able to compete with the duo, Even Ndzhenga males have many offspring to take care of so it would not be good with their history of abandoning prides for them to leave towards the Nkuhumas. Kambula males are very passive in excess of K4 so I think it's difficult for them to get into that at the moment.
The best way is to hope that it will be a quick trip to the north for the PC males, they are not in a position to cover such a large territory without putting their pride and even themselves in danger.  (04-29-2024, 12:26 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(04-29-2024, 12:18 AM)afortich Wrote: I understand what you saying but it is an undeniable fact that PC boys have killed more lionesses (adults or subadults) than Nzengas, Gijimas, Tintswalo, etc. I appreciate this is a measured take. We're all upset that Chela has been killed and so many on this thread have reacted emotionally, but it's important to recognise a) we don't have enough information on what happened in the night, besides what guides have speculated (and even though these guides have "confirmed" these sightings, they didn't personally witness them either and are making a lot of inferences) and b) We don't know how and why exactly lions behave as they do, it's an ongoing process and not a science yet. Chela may have been killed for no reason, she may have been an aggressor, or she may have been killed because PCMs knew she was pregnant with K4's offspring and if left unchecked, these cubs would pose a threat in the future. I do not blame any lion, I just mourn the loss of a beautiful soul. (04-29-2024, 12:26 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(04-29-2024, 12:18 AM)afortich Wrote: I understand what you saying but it is an undeniable fact that PC boys have killed more lionesses (adults or subadults) than Nzengas, Gijimas, Tintswalo, etc. In most cases, there is no direct evidence. However, an educated guess according to some factual evidence such as bites, scratches, location, etc., would provide what you need to form strong assumptions. Proving crimes in court work in the same way. Therefore, those assumptions based in facts prove the case of the killer. 
Lions have no laws or taboos against murder. If another lion angers another lion enough then that lion gets killed.
Lionesses in heat or their own cubs just get a bigger pass than not mating lionesses or cubs that aren't their own etc. But in the end, that's all there is to it. The Nkuhumas and PCmales are nearly strangers to each other. The are no previous bonds, memories etc that would keep things in check. So an fight can quickly turn ugly. Western sector and the north have lots of smaller prides and roaming lions. So lots of opportunities for violence compared with other areas. (04-29-2024, 12:43 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Lions have no laws or taboos against murder. If another lion angers another lion enough then that lion gets killed. For the record, I am not saying lions have criminal law. I only use a comparison how we people determine theories and how assumptions could be definitive in recreating what happened but nothing to do with animals. 
[color=var(--yt-endpoint-color,var(--yt-spec-text-primary))]
 *This image is copyright of its original author [/color][color=var(--yt-spec-text-primary)]The Mapogo Lions[color=var(--yt-endpoint-visited-color,var(--yt-spec-text-primary))]il y a 13 heures[/color] [color=var(--yt-spec-text-primary)]Sadly the oldest Nkuhuma pride female has passed away. Chela was born in 2013 and was the daughter of the Matimbas, her body was found this morning , her neck was badly chewed and her head was tilted back.[/color]  *This image is copyright of its original author [/color]
The PC Males probably strangled her to death judging by the neck wounds.
It's an end of an era for the NK Pride, what with all the older/lead lionesses gone, the next oldest generation has to now take center stage. I guess one or both of the remaining B'ham daughters. 
Yup ridgenose and purple eyes daughters then amber eyes two daughters I believe it’s 3 more younger females and then the 1 male could chela have been protecting him you never know she probably didn’t wanna mate with these new males and they attacked her
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