There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(07-27-2023, 05:20 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: Thank you so much for this. I did think the S. Avocas were last seen up by Hamilton's though. I question if they are still around.
I didn't see when the Nkhuma's lost 3 subadults...
The Nkuhuma loses happened over time. One was publicly acknowledged on WE but the others were unknown.
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
Awesome effort, as always my friend. I would be completely lost when discussing these lions, were it not for your great maps. Thank you!
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)I\m wondering If you could help me see this map.. I have found your thread in multiple places, but each time the map is not linked for me.. I am looking for a more up-to-date prides map of the Sabi Sands area (the last one I found was 2019). Thanks! Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)I\m wondering If you could help me see this map.. I have found your thread in multiple places, but each time the map is not linked for me.. I am looking for a more up-to-date prides map of the Sabi Sands area (the last one I found was 2019). Thanks! Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
I would try a different browser. I use DuckDuckGo, Firefox (primary on Windows), and sometimes Edge. This image shows up for me in all three, though I do, at times, have some images/videos that do not populate. Sometimes a reboot helps, sometimes switching browsers and/or verifying no updates needed, etc..., might also help.
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)I\m wondering If you could help me see this map.. I have found your thread in multiple places, but each time the map is not linked for me.. I am looking for a more up-to-date prides map of the Sabi Sands area (the last one I found was 2019). Thanks! Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
I would try a different browser. I use DuckDuckGo, Firefox (primary on Windows), and sometimes Edge. This image shows up for me in all three, though I do, at times, have some images/videos that do not populate. Sometimes a reboot helps, sometimes switching browsers and/or verifying no updates needed, etc..., might also help.
i have never cracked tjhe code as to how and why that problem is so random...there are adays I cna see all the pics and links...and days noting come up.....sometimnes with one device or another....its never consistent to put a finger on it.
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)I\m wondering If you could help me see this map.. I have found your thread in multiple places, but each time the map is not linked for me.. I am looking for a more up-to-date prides map of the Sabi Sands area (the last one I found was 2019). Thanks! Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
I would try a different browser. I use DuckDuckGo, Firefox (primary on Windows), and sometimes Edge. This image shows up for me in all three, though I do, at times, have some images/videos that do not populate. Sometimes a reboot helps, sometimes switching browsers and/or verifying no updates needed, etc..., might also help.
i have never cracked tjhe code as to how and why that problem is so random...there are adays I cna see all the pics and links...and days noting come up.....sometimnes with one device or another....its never consistent to put a finger on it.
My friend, I have experienced the exact same things as well. What usually fixes it, but not always, is switching browsers, or the fore mentioned reboot. But, as you stated, sometimes they just don't appear. I wonder if it could have something to do with the Google webcode, and how it interacts with other sites, such as Imgur.
09-02-2023, 02:16 AM( This post was last modified: 09-02-2023, 02:21 AM by Cath2020 )
The Sand River Pride and what\s going on, should be pretty interesting and ever-evolving. I would say that there should be many more male subs around unless some were killed unbeknownst to the rangers. If we strictly go by what's reported, then there will be 10 offspring left of the Southern Avocas. 10/12 that survived. It is likely that the younger subs around 2-2.5 years old are the young ones to the Mantemahle's Daughters, while the 3 or 4 older subs are the ones of the 2 Toulon lionesses, and probably the last young cub. There are 2 older sub females that should be going into estrous soon....or already. Those are the only adult lionesses that would be showing an interest to the Nkhulus now. The other lionesses are still trying to protect their young. We also know at a MIMINUM, there should be 5 males (once shown in footage of them walking towards the camera angle). However, one of them (they say most likely one of the two older ones....though NOT confirmed) is gone, so we should see 4 males at the very least....a mix of younger and one/two older ones. If so, at least THREE of the younger subs are males (if indeed 1/2 of the older males got killed), not including the single male cub. I am not sure at all how many females are included among the 6 subs around two years old.
The remaining oldest daughter this month should be 3.8 years old. The other sub female and one or two males should be 3.1 years old. The 6 younger subs should be 2.1 years old. The remaining cub should be 9 months old.
Therefore, if this reporting is semi-accurate, there should not be a long time before the 6 younger subs will be abandoned (likely since even any lionesses will be too young to be accepted by all those aggressive males) and then the Mantemahle Daughters will seek out the Nkhulus to mate with perhaps....along with the other young female with the oldest daughter (who might be already mating with some of the males). This leaves the old Toulon lioness as the remaining holdout (assuming she doesn't give up on her lone cub) for awhile.
All in all, not many females available now or in the near future for the 6-7 male coalition trying to take over the pride (maybe if they split into 2 groups, like 4 males take the Sand River Pride, while the others go their separate ways.
(09-02-2023, 02:16 AM)Cath2020 Wrote: The Sand River Pride and what\s going on, should be pretty interesting and ever-evolving. I would say that there should be many more male subs around unless some were killed unbeknownst to the rangers. If we strictly go by what's reported, then there will be 10 offspring left of the Southern Avocas. 10/12 that survived. It is likely that the younger subs around 2-2.5 years old are the young ones to the Mantemahle's Daughters, while the 3 or 4 older subs are the ones of the 2 Toulon lionesses, and probably the last young cub. There are 2 older sub females that should be going into estrous soon....or already. Those are the only adult lionesses that would be showing an interest to the Nkhulus now. The other lionesses are still trying to protect their young. We also know at a MIMINUM, there should be 5 males (once shown in footage of them walking towards the camera angle). However, one of them (they say most likely one of the two older ones....though NOT confirmed) is gone, so we should see 4 males at the very least....a mix of younger and one/two older ones. If so, at least THREE of the younger subs are males (if indeed 1/2 of the older males got killed), not including the single male cub. I am not sure at all how many females are included among the 6 subs around two years old.
The remaining oldest daughter this month should be 3.8 years old. The other sub female and one or two males should be 3.1 years old. The 6 younger subs should be 2.1 years old. The remaining cub should be 9 months old.
Therefore, if this reporting is semi-accurate, there should not be a long time before the 6 younger subs will be abandoned (likely since even any lionesses will be too young to be accepted by all those aggressive males) and then the Mantemahle Daughters will seek out the Nkhulus to mate with perhaps....along with the other young female with the oldest daughter (who might be already mating with some of the males). This leaves the old Toulon lioness as the remaining holdout (assuming she doesn't give up on her lone cub) for awhile.
All in all, not many females available now or in the near future for the 6-7 male coalition trying to take over the pride (maybe if they split into 2 groups, like 4 males take the Sand River Pride, while the others go their separate ways.
I was told the sand river pride (#2) has 11 members
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
(07-27-2023, 06:40 PM)BA0701 Wrote:
(07-27-2023, 01:36 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Updated map after 5 months :
*This image is copyright of its original author
Some news since:
- last Bboy, Nhenha, died from his injuries from the fight vs 2 PC males
- 2 Ndhzenga males, Wide Nose and Gore, died in quite short span of time
- 2 adult Talamati "breakaway" females suddenly died after losing condition rapidly
- 3 Kambula females (2 older and 1 younger) also died, unknown reasons
- last 2 Kambula breakaway sub females are also gone, most likely killed by other lions
- looks like only 4 out of 7 Nkuhuma subadults are still alive
- I still showcased Mohawk Avoca as territorial male, although he is more of a semi-nomad, avoiding new territorial males, BD males
- 1 Styx sub female was killed by PC young male and his sister
- 1 adult female, 1 sub male and 1 cub from Sand River where killed by Nkhulu males, who are causing trouble in the south
- with 2019 female maturing, Sand River pride still has 4 adult females, although subadult numbers and genders might not be accurate/up to date because lack of info
- I still left S.Avocas as territorial males, although it looks like they are on their way out, pressured by Nkuhulus, will see how it goes
- we had some recent sightings of Torchwoods, breakaway group has a lot of cubs, but adult females number in core and breakaway might not be accurate, as some females overlap, aswell as subadults numbers and genders, too little info
- 2 Mantimahle sons are starting to be seen in Sabi Sands, they are dominant over Torchwood Breakaways and Fourways prides (prob since late 2021/early 2022), possibly pushing for rest of Torchwoods
- new young male, Skorro young male, was seen at Londolozi in recent months (not sure on his current status tho), aswell as PC young male in the south.
Awesome effort, as always my friend. I would be completely lost when discussing these lions, were it not for your great maps. Thank you!
I really hope you update the map, thank you very much.
- S8/Imbali male passed away recently, due to disease
- 2 Talamati breakaway subs died aswell
- old Talamati female passed away few months ago due to old age
- S. Avocas lost territory to 7 Nkhulu males in July, 1 S.Avoca disappeared
- Nkhulus killed few cubs/subs in SR pride, looks like SR breakaway has 4M and 2F remaining
- Ximhungwe/Gingerella had 3 cubs, 1 died recently
- 1 SP cub got killed recently by Tamalati pride, who establish themselves south under Gijimas
- SP killed older adult Styx female few months ago
- NK male after being seen with Tumbela and 2 Talamatis, currently is with Skorro Breakaway young male
- Kambula young males are pressuring 2 BDMs
- Torchwood numbers might not be up to date, no recent info
- some members of Imbali and Nharu prides are ocassionaly seen in the north, as are members of Plains Camp pride in the south
Maps of Sabi Sand Coalitions Males and Prides
