There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
10-12-2022, 05:30 PM( This post was last modified: 10-12-2022, 05:32 PM by Pckts )
(10-12-2022, 06:32 AM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-11-2022, 04:35 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-11-2022, 04:09 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-10-2022, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-10-2022, 05:35 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 11:40 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 10:02 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 08:58 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 08:16 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 02:43 PM)Pckts Wrote: No Scales on site during capture. The conversation is still ongoing, I’m starting to see if she has any actual weights and locations. I’ll advise
it's a question or a statement?
Meaning the weight is likely estimated.
we don't know and even if there were no scales on the capture site, they brought him back to the park center (chitengo camp) where I imagine they have all the necessary tools
They show the release, so it’s most likely not the case.
again we don't know and then if it needed video or photo proof for each wild lion or tiger weight then 90% of the weights on this website are estimates, because for most of the weights there are only paper documents and words and which in addition most of them are from the last century
It's case by case. The same thing happened with Caesar. Everyone claimed he was weighed because Rueben said so but during the capture there was no weighing equipment on site. We finally reached out to them and they said he was never weighed since they had no equipment on hand.
It's very rare to have video of the entire capture, so it's only natural to have questions when no weighing is shown. Especially when someone uses nice round numbers with no details and shuts comments off.
unlike Caesar, it's not just anyone who claims 250 kg, here it's the gorongosa national park
No, its Paola Bouley. A “national park” doesn’t speak.
in this case the word of paola bouley is the word of gorongosa national park. she is responsible for lion study and conservation in this park
10-12-2022, 06:06 PM( This post was last modified: 10-12-2022, 06:08 PM by Mwarcaar )
(10-12-2022, 05:30 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-12-2022, 06:32 AM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-11-2022, 04:35 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-11-2022, 04:09 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-10-2022, 10:33 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-10-2022, 05:35 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 11:40 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 10:02 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 08:58 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-09-2022, 08:16 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote: it's a question or a statement?
Meaning the weight is likely estimated.
we don't know and even if there were no scales on the capture site, they brought him back to the park center (chitengo camp) where I imagine they have all the necessary tools
They show the release, so it’s most likely not the case.
again we don't know and then if it needed video or photo proof for each wild lion or tiger weight then 90% of the weights on this website are estimates, because for most of the weights there are only paper documents and words and which in addition most of them are from the last century
It's case by case. The same thing happened with Caesar. Everyone claimed he was weighed because Rueben said so but during the capture there was no weighing equipment on site. We finally reached out to them and they said he was never weighed since they had no equipment on hand.
It's very rare to have video of the entire capture, so it's only natural to have questions when no weighing is shown. Especially when someone uses nice round numbers with no details and shuts comments off.
unlike Caesar, it's not just anyone who claims 250 kg, here it's the gorongosa national park
No, its Paola Bouley. A “national park” doesn’t speak.
in this case the word of paola bouley is the word of gorongosa national park. she is responsible for lion study and conservation in this park
(10-09-2022, 08:58 PM)Pckts Wrote: Meaning the weight is likely estimated.
we don't know and even if there were no scales on the capture site, they brought him back to the park center (chitengo camp) where I imagine they have all the necessary tools
They show the release, so it’s most likely not the case.
again we don't know and then if it needed video or photo proof for each wild lion or tiger weight then 90% of the weights on this website are estimates, because for most of the weights there are only paper documents and words and which in addition most of them are from the last century
It's case by case. The same thing happened with Caesar. Everyone claimed he was weighed because Rueben said so but during the capture there was no weighing equipment on site. We finally reached out to them and they said he was never weighed since they had no equipment on hand.
It's very rare to have video of the entire capture, so it's only natural to have questions when no weighing is shown. Especially when someone uses nice round numbers with no details and shuts comments off.
unlike Caesar, it's not just anyone who claims 250 kg, here it's the gorongosa national park
No, its Paola Bouley. A “national park” doesn’t speak.
in this case the word of paola bouley is the word of gorongosa national park. she is responsible for lion study and conservation in this park
10-12-2022, 06:38 PM( This post was last modified: 10-12-2022, 06:40 PM by Pckts )
*This image is copyright of its original author
That’s where it stands. She’s not there during the capture so unless she’s filming I’m not sure if she participated or if the info was relayed. That being said, when we’re lucky enough to have documentation like this of a capture they’ll almost always document the animal being weighed, if you don’t see it that generally means no scale was on site.
Note: she took a few days to respond so don’t bombard her with questions yet. Let’s see if I can get any details before.
Thanks
As much as I'm aware tbf , the lion ximpoko from Timbavati is fully confirmed by the scientists working there. If anyone have doubts one may read the pages 1-5 from the thread "largest living lions".
The Mount Kenya lion was killed for an attack on humans and there was no record or information of him killing cattles as stated by Richard Kock. Also I would like to know how a lion in east africa can prey on cattles for months (that's just a thing of impossibility).
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Regarding the lion's physical condition it was stated to be in excellent condition without being fat. Kocks recent emails confirmed it again that the lion was everything but fat. Also the BCS score was made visually and has ko reliability but even according to the paper 4-6 is ideal for a lion.
Especulation, this is what I see, several times with these "new" records.
1 - The lion Ximpoko from Timbavati was "confirmed" by the people in the area, but not by scientist. This record is not quoted or published in ANY scientific paper, or document or even popular book. Is just a popular record, not a scientific one, and that is the problem with these weights that came from personal communications. I use it as there is support from the staff in the area, but if you ask a scientist, they will not recognize this figure, this is just "from fans to fans" situation, if you know what I mean.
2 - Many times people forget things, other times they "create" things, and other times they just don't care and say what you want to hear. It is weird that Dr Kock says that this lions was not a cattle-eater when ALL the hard and real published evidence show it:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, if we stay with the strick 100% confirmed information, the only thing that we know is that this 272 kg lion was big, was a cattle eater and was destroyed because of that, period. All out of that is speculation that we can't confirm, simple.
Now, these new two emails just add information about its body size using the skeleton, confirming that was nothing exceptional but also that was FAT, check it:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, we can see that while Kock insist that it was not a cattle-eater, the official card in the skull, which is the ONLY document that also probes its alegated weight, says the contrary. Also, its size was not exceptional at all and its weight, empty or not, was influenced by its stock riding and a good deal of body fat. There is nothing more to discuss about this unnaturar and outlier specimen.
10-13-2022, 04:10 PM( This post was last modified: 10-14-2022, 12:06 AM by Pckts )
Follow up
*This image is copyright of its original author
So it sounds like the largest Lion that’s been weighed was 220kg.
It doesn’t seem like she’s been involved with that either. I can dig further but I think I’d need to talk with the ones involved and I’d rather not push it.
That’s where it stands. She’s not there during the capture so unless she’s filming I’m not sure if she participated or if the info was relayed. That being said, when we’re lucky enough to have documentation like this of a capture they’ll almost always document the animal being weighed, if you don’t see it that generally means no scale was on site.
Note: she took a few days to respond so don’t bombard her with questions yet. Let’s see if I can get any details before.
Thanks
Hello everyone,
I was able to find a study that discusses African lion shoulder height. They used a technique that involves digital photogrammetry to record lion shoulder height. A free-roaming lion was found to have a shoulder height of around 118 cm. Some other lions also surpassed the 114 cm mark. What are your interpretations of this data? Although there are no weights attached to these measurements, I think it can be informative on sholdure height measurements for lions.
Study: Age Assignment to induividual African Lion
(08-24-2022, 07:15 PM)Pckts Wrote: Just to add to my last comment…
What exactly changed from the time Smutts and Hamilton were capturing their lions to now?
Why is it these Private reserves make claims of the largest “Wild” Lion weights ever yet there are now less Lions, prey and land for these Lions to roam freely compared to Smuts and Hamiltons days?
Why has there never been a Lion from free ranging E. Africa to obtain these weights, let alone multiples? E. Africa has far more prey, far more large prey, the highest lion population on earth and better protection.
Well there has been a 250 kg lion in Timbawati and the Black Dam male was described as being bigger than the 250 kg lion, by a person who darted both animals. and now we also know of a group if 5 males between 230-240 kg in Kruger who hadn’t been feeding in the last two days, are all of similar size or bigger than the largest lion Smutts and Hamilton weighed there. And this happend decades ago so not that much has changed.
One of the reasons why lions from private reserves grow bigger is because many of the lions brought in has Namibian or Kalahari genes or directly brorught in from those places.
Regarding the 300 kg cat it was described as being a wild lion, this from people working in the reserve or having spent a considerable amount of time there. Having spoken to Rob personally he is careful in giving weights and not to exaggerate the size of the lions. When you get more than one source telling about this lion we cannot ignore it. Dismissing it’s accuracy because he couldn’t remember the details correctly because it happend a considerable amount of time ago is just silly, obviously he remembers that he witnessed a lion of around 300 kg and yet still be a bit fussy about the exact weight and every detail. It just strengthens his credability imo,
Also there is a 272 kg male lion from East Africa on an empty stomach. Shot for attacking humans out of hunger not because he killed cattle. Him after a big meal would be over 300 kg.
The lions from most of these private reserves provide for themselves. there are probably exceptions, but Lions in places like Madikwe, Addo Elephant park, Tswalu, Phinda etc for sure do. And based on the statements made around the lion in question his reserve is the same.
Neither of the “sources” were there and have relayed that clearly.
We’ve already gone over these numerous times. None of them are reliable other than the 272 kg male who was a notorious cattle killer. Regardless of stomach content or not, he’d been growing fat on cattle for months.
Lastly Namibian lions are no larger than anywhere else so their genetic influence wouldn’t change lion size nor is there any reason they’d be inserted in any of these reserves. A few here or there mean nothing when comparing all Lions living in S. Africa.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So even if it killed cattle it did not appare like a overweight cattle killer, neither was it like a captive lion or fat just big…
I know he gave it a (6) Moderate/High, but that I suspect has just as much to do with the overall apparence of the lion in the picture more so than it has to do with the fat on the lion. As the moderate Lions looks like smaller individuals in the picture.
As after all he states the lion was not fat.
As for the other Lions it’s important to state they are not reliable in YOUR opinion. Regardless there are lions stated at those weight’s(greater than 225 kg) around Kruger from past and present.
The Mapogos where weighed, all under 230 kg on an empty stomach, but I guess the largest two where pretty close to 230 kg since that’s the number he used. Say the biggest of them weighed 227 kg and had 10-15 kg stomach content which would make him 212-217 kg empty. That seems fair right? Yet compared to other dominant males they where described as small/average males by Rob. Smaller than the Majingilane’s. Which again was said to be much smaller than the Matimba males.
Not everything has to be written down in detail on a paper, sometimes you just have to be a little logical.
Looking at the source, are the person giving the info reliable? Or does the person have a habit of exaggerating? does this person have a bias? Etc..
we cannot disregard everything because it doesn’t suit a certain narrative one might have set.
To be more specific Rob said no Mapogo weighed over 230, not that they weighed below 230. In two different occasions he said "none weighed over 230kg". And that Dreadlocks weighed more than Makhulu when both were in their primes, but "not by any real margin" and said that all 6 were very similar in size, pointing out of his video where 3 of them were bonding side by side, including the smallest Mr.T with the biggest Dreadlocks: indeed, in height and length there was no visible difference, Dreadlocks was just builkier.
And yeah he says Selati #1 was bigger than all Mapogos, all Majingilane were bigger than Selati #1, and Bboys and Matimbas as big or bigger than the Majingilane ( but he never saw Matimbas and Bboys so he's going by comments he heard about their sides from other lodges ). The Bboys do easiily look bigger than Majingilane in frame I'd say and they're half brothers to the Matimbas and sons of Ximpoko's partner if I recall. Matimbas there's not even need to say, they're much bigger than Bboys and Majingilane as Londolozi says. There's also Nkuhuma Jr the Matimba son who was as tall as their fathers at the age of 3, as well as the Othawa Jr a Majingilane son who was also as tall as the Matimbas at the age of 3, plus the Othawa Male son of the Majingilane who was clearly bigger than their fathers. There was also the 2 Charleston males said to be much bigger than the Bboys as well and a ranger even said they were as big as the Black Dam Male.
This /\ is the fully grown Sand River Male with the bent spine ( left ) fighting the 3 years and 3 months old Big Boy Charleston, he was much larger than the Sand River Male despite his age and is stated by Mala Mala that the Charleston were incredibly large for their ages, iirc even at 2 years of age Mala Mala was mistaken their tracks for those of adult lions.
Still in Sabi Sands we now have the 2 Plain Camp Males who seems to be much bigger than Nhenha ( the remaining Bboy, biggest of the 5 ), since we have this video of them chasing Nhenha's 6yo Nkuhuma son/nephew who's now in a coalition with him and is bigger than his father:
And the PCM are just 5.
So between all these males, 6 Mapogos, 1 Selati, 5 Majingilanes, 5 Bboys, 6 Matimbas, 2 Charlestons, 2 PCM... We have in SS alone a huge sample of males above 215kg by scaling them off the Mapogos. Damn, I almost forgot the Avocas who are also bigger than the Mapogos and were compared to the Matimbas.
Sure, Mapogos aside, none were weighed and we can only estimate, but it shows very clearly that a 225kg lion isn't like the peak of their weight and something very rare, far from it.
(08-24-2022, 07:15 PM)Pckts Wrote: Just to add to my last comment…
What exactly changed from the time Smutts and Hamilton were capturing their lions to now?
Why is it these Private reserves make claims of the largest “Wild” Lion weights ever yet there are now less Lions, prey and land for these Lions to roam freely compared to Smuts and Hamiltons days?
Why has there never been a Lion from free ranging E. Africa to obtain these weights, let alone multiples? E. Africa has far more prey, far more large prey, the highest lion population on earth and better protection.
Well there has been a 250 kg lion in Timbawati and the Black Dam male was described as being bigger than the 250 kg lion, by a person who darted both animals. and now we also know of a group if 5 males between 230-240 kg in Kruger who hadn’t been feeding in the last two days, are all of similar size or bigger than the largest lion Smutts and Hamilton weighed there. And this happend decades ago so not that much has changed.
One of the reasons why lions from private reserves grow bigger is because many of the lions brought in has Namibian or Kalahari genes or directly brorught in from those places.
Regarding the 300 kg cat it was described as being a wild lion, this from people working in the reserve or having spent a considerable amount of time there. Having spoken to Rob personally he is careful in giving weights and not to exaggerate the size of the lions. When you get more than one source telling about this lion we cannot ignore it. Dismissing it’s accuracy because he couldn’t remember the details correctly because it happend a considerable amount of time ago is just silly, obviously he remembers that he witnessed a lion of around 300 kg and yet still be a bit fussy about the exact weight and every detail. It just strengthens his credability imo,
Also there is a 272 kg male lion from East Africa on an empty stomach. Shot for attacking humans out of hunger not because he killed cattle. Him after a big meal would be over 300 kg.
The lions from most of these private reserves provide for themselves. there are probably exceptions, but Lions in places like Madikwe, Addo Elephant park, Tswalu, Phinda etc for sure do. And based on the statements made around the lion in question his reserve is the same.
Neither of the “sources” were there and have relayed that clearly.
We’ve already gone over these numerous times. None of them are reliable other than the 272 kg male who was a notorious cattle killer. Regardless of stomach content or not, he’d been growing fat on cattle for months.
Lastly Namibian lions are no larger than anywhere else so their genetic influence wouldn’t change lion size nor is there any reason they’d be inserted in any of these reserves. A few here or there mean nothing when comparing all Lions living in S. Africa.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So even if it killed cattle it did not appare like a overweight cattle killer, neither was it like a captive lion or fat just big…
I know he gave it a (6) Moderate/High, but that I suspect has just as much to do with the overall apparence of the lion in the picture more so than it has to do with the fat on the lion. As the moderate Lions looks like smaller individuals in the picture.
As after all he states the lion was not fat.
As for the other Lions it’s important to state they are not reliable in YOUR opinion. Regardless there are lions stated at those weight’s(greater than 225 kg) around Kruger from past and present.
The Mapogos where weighed, all under 230 kg on an empty stomach, but I guess the largest two where pretty close to 230 kg since that’s the number he used. Say the biggest of them weighed 227 kg and had 10-15 kg stomach content which would make him 212-217 kg empty. That seems fair right? Yet compared to other dominant males they where described as small/average males by Rob. Smaller than the Majingilane’s. Which again was said to be much smaller than the Matimba males.
Not everything has to be written down in detail on a paper, sometimes you just have to be a little logical.
Looking at the source, are the person giving the info reliable? Or does the person have a habit of exaggerating? does this person have a bias? Etc..
we cannot disregard everything because it doesn’t suit a certain narrative one might have set.
To be more specific Rob said no Mapogo weighed over 230, not that they weighed below 230. In two different occasions he said "none weighed over 230kg". And that Dreadlocks weighed more than Makhulu when both were in their primes, but "not by any real margin" and said that all 6 were very similar in size, pointing out of his video where 3 of them were bonding side by side, including the smallest Mr.T with the biggest Dreadlocks: indeed, in height and length there was no visible difference, Dreadlocks was just builkier.
And yeah he says Selati #1 was bigger than all Mapogos, all Majingilane were bigger than Selati #1, and Bboys and Matimbas as big or bigger than the Majingilane ( but he never saw Matimbas and Bboys so he's going by comments he heard about their sides from other lodges ). The Bboys do easiily look bigger than Majingilane in frame I'd say and they're half brothers to the Matimbas and sons of Ximpoko's partner if I recall. Matimbas there's not even need to say, they're much bigger than Bboys and Majingilane as Londolozi says. There's also Nkuhuma Jr the Matimba son who was as tall as their fathers at the age of 3, as well as the Othawa Jr a Majingilane son who was also as tall as the Matimbas at the age of 3, plus the Othawa Male son of the Majingilane who was clearly bigger than their fathers. There was also the 2 Charleston males said to be much bigger than the Bboys as well and a ranger even said they were as big as the Black Dam Male.
This /\ is the fully grown Sand River Male with the bent spine ( left ) fighting the 3 years and 3 months old Big Boy Charleston, he was much larger than the Sand River Male despite his age and is stated by Mala Mala that the Charleston were incredibly large for their ages, iirc even at 2 years of age Mala Mala was mistaken their tracks for those of adult lions.
Still in Sabi Sands we now have the 2 Plain Camp Males who seems to be much bigger than Nhenha ( the remaining Bboy, biggest of the 5 ), since we have this video of them chasing Nhenha's 6yo Nkuhuma son/nephew who's now in a coalition with him and is bigger than his father:
And the PCM are just 5.
So between all these males, 6 Mapogos, 1 Selati, 5 Majingilanes, 5 Bboys, 6 Matimbas, 2 Charlestons, 2 PCM... We have in SS alone a huge sample of males above 215kg by scaling them off the Mapogos. Damn, I almost forgot the Avocas who are also bigger than the Mapogos and were compared to the Matimbas.
Sure, Mapogos aside, none were weighed and we can only estimate, but it shows very clearly that a 225kg lion isn't like the peak of their weight and something very rare, far from it.
Unfortunately Robs not a Vet so you’d want real confirmation first. Next is that you’re not going to see tiers of Lion size from the same locations. You’ll have some variation amongst Coalitions but in general any territory holding coalition are going to have similar sized cats. “Some bigger than others” but nothing to crazy.
In regards to the 225kg weight, that’s for a free ranging and empty lion, that’s the same as a lion who is 250kg with stomach content so still a huge cat.
Why is a vet needed? Rob was there and saw them being weighed multiple times with his own eyes. Or are you saying he's lying? If so why would he lie but not the vet?
By above 215kg I'm talking about empty males since Mapogos weighed 230kg with stomach content and all other mentioned were bigger or even much bigger than them.
There's a huge variation of size in the SS lions, you can see a 3yo male fighting a much smaller adult male in the video for reference. Since more than 30 years ago there's no fence between SS, the KNP and the other reserves of the Greater KNP, lions come and go from the KNP and Manyeleti, or even all down the Timbavati, crossing the Manyeleti and entering SS from the north.
Today we have the coalition of 4, the Ndzengas who are average or below average, even said ( I don't remember now if by ranger, guide or photographer ) to be the smallest lions they've seen and were impressed by how small they are. They came from Kruger. But at the same time we have the 2 PCM fathered by KNP males in a pride at the border, they're much bigger than the Timbavati male the Ndzengas ousted who was already much larger than the Ndzengas themselves.
(10-31-2022, 11:59 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Why is a vet needed? Rob was there and saw them being weighed multiple times with his own eyes. Or are you saying he's lying? If so why would he lie but not the vet?
By above 215kg I'm talking about empty males since Mapogos weighed 230kg with stomach content and all other mentioned were bigger or even much bigger than them.
There's a huge variation of size in the SS lions, you can see a 3yo male fighting a much smaller adult male in the video for reference. Since more than 30 years ago there's no fence between SS, the KNP and the other reserves of the Greater KNP, lions come and go from the KNP and Manyeleti, or even all down the Timbavati, crossing the Manyeleti and entering SS from the north.
Today we have the coalition of 4, the Ndzengas who are average or below average, even said ( I don't remember now if by ranger, guide or photographer ) to be the smallest lions they've seen and were impressed by how small they are. They came from Kruger. But at the same time we have the 2 PCM fathered by KNP males in a pride at the border, they're much bigger than the Timbavati male the Ndzengas ousted who was already much larger than the Ndzengas themselves.
I haven’t seen what Rob said so I’m not saying anything on that regard. What am I saying is that a guide who “allegedly” witnessed the capture is very different from the person who actually took the alleged weights.
Lastly there isn’t a “huge variation” it’s just normal size ranges. There’s no location with any real data base that doesn’t show the same variation. But when talking about prime males generally it’s going to be the range of 180kg to 225kg like Rob has said as well.
This idea that the Majingalanes dwarfed the Mapogos is nonsense. You see Kinky tail and T compared to them and theres absolutely no way to determine any size difference.
11-25-2022, 08:29 AM( This post was last modified: 11-25-2022, 08:31 AM by Mapokser )
(11-01-2022, 07:00 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(10-31-2022, 11:59 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Why is a vet needed? Rob was there and saw them being weighed multiple times with his own eyes. Or are you saying he's lying? If so why would he lie but not the vet?
By above 215kg I'm talking about empty males since Mapogos weighed 230kg with stomach content and all other mentioned were bigger or even much bigger than them.
There's a huge variation of size in the SS lions, you can see a 3yo male fighting a much smaller adult male in the video for reference. Since more than 30 years ago there's no fence between SS, the KNP and the other reserves of the Greater KNP, lions come and go from the KNP and Manyeleti, or even all down the Timbavati, crossing the Manyeleti and entering SS from the north.
Today we have the coalition of 4, the Ndzengas who are average or below average, even said ( I don't remember now if by ranger, guide or photographer ) to be the smallest lions they've seen and were impressed by how small they are. They came from Kruger. But at the same time we have the 2 PCM fathered by KNP males in a pride at the border, they're much bigger than the Timbavati male the Ndzengas ousted who was already much larger than the Ndzengas themselves.
I haven’t seen what Rob said so I’m not saying anything on that regard. What am I saying is that a guide who “allegedly” witnessed the capture is very different from the person who actually took the alleged weights.
Lastly there isn’t a “huge variation” it’s just normal size ranges. There’s no location with any real data base that doesn’t show the same variation. But when talking about prime males generally it’s going to be the range of 180kg to 225kg like Rob has said as well.
This idea that the Majingalanes dwarfed the Mapogos is nonsense. You see Kinky tail and T compared to them and theres absolutely no way to determine any size difference.
This is what Rob says:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
And comparison of Mapogos with other males ( keep in mind he never saw Matimbas or Birminghams and is just going by "damn they are big" from what he heard other lodges say, but he saw all others for years as they were dominant males in the West where he worked ):
*This image is copyright of its original author
I never said Majingilanes dwarfed Mr.T and KT, though there is a way to know who's bigger, we have pictures of 5yo 5th Majingilane's skull with prime KT's skull, the Majingilane was clearly bigger although he had smaller canines:
*This image is copyright of its original author
As Rob said it's quite clear that all Majingilanes > Selati #1 > Mapogos who with stomach content weighed 230kg.
Majingilane's dwarfing Mapogos aside ( this is a strong word that probably doesn't apply here ), Matimbas definitely, 100%, did, as they dwarfed the Majingilane themselves. Everybody in the Sabi Sands, even Londolozi Lodge who were Majingilane lovers, and their guests, stated Matimbas were much bigger than Majins, that they had monstruos size, that they were also much bigger than the Birmingham Boys and some of the largest lions they've ever saw, and they were talking about the 2 Southern Matimbas, they never even saw the older male who was much bigger than the others. Mala Mala also said that Matimbas were bigger than the Matshapiri males who were themselves very likely bigger than the Majins as everybody saw them as very impressive, while nobody ever thought the same of the Majins.
And to make it clear, these are all coalitions the rangers saw clashing with each other multiple times, it's not even like they saw one coalition once and the other male a month after that and got the impression the second one was bigger, they saw them for years and saw them chasing and fighting each other.
Bboys were also very likely bigger than Majins, Nhenha is simply, clearly, much bulkier and overall more impressive even at the age of 12, than the Majins ever were, but his son who's in a coalition with him and is bigger than him, as a prime male, was dwarfed by the two 5yo PCM chasing him. Of which one of the PCM is much bigger than the other. Hell, among the Matimbas themselves, Ndhuna dwarfed Slitnose.
*This image is copyright of its original author
So yeah the difference between the Mapogos ( weighed 230kg with stomach content ) and the likes of Matimbas and Charleston Boys is insane, again, the bigger Charleston male dwarfed a prime Sand River Male in a fight while he was only 3yo! Even smaller lions like the PCM would dwarf the Mapogos since they dwarfed the Nkuhuma male who's already quite bigger than Mapogos.
Idk if it's the norm of it it's because SS borders the insanely huge KNP, Manyeleti and gets lions from Timbavati too ( that borders Manyeleti ) all the time, but the variation in size there is big.
(10-09-2022, 08:16 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote: it's a question or a statement?
Meaning the weight is likely estimated.
we don't know and even if there were no scales on the capture site, they brought him back to the park center (chitengo camp) where I imagine they have all the necessary tools
They show the release, so it’s most likely not the case.
again we don't know and then if it needed video or photo proof for each wild lion or tiger weight then 90% of the weights on this website are estimates, because for most of the weights there are only paper documents and words and which in addition most of them are from the last century
It's case by case. The same thing happened with Caesar. Everyone claimed he was weighed because Rueben said so but during the capture there was no weighing equipment on site. We finally reached out to them and they said he was never weighed since they had no equipment on hand.
It's very rare to have video of the entire capture, so it's only natural to have questions when no weighing is shown. Especially when someone uses nice round numbers with no details and shuts comments off.
unlike Caesar, it's not just anyone who claims 250 kg, here it's the gorongosa national park
No, its Paola Bouley. A “national park” doesn’t speak.
in this case the word of paola bouley is the word of gorongosa national park. she is responsible for lion study and conservation in this park
(10-07-2022, 06:42 PM)Jerricson Wrote: @Pckts Will try
What's the story?the lion was Dinokeng. And it said that it was weight 265kg in 3 months this year. And it weight over 300kg by a scale in 2017, a lion fan get that from a lion doctor,I hope someone confirm this.
Modern Weights and Measurements of Wild Lions
