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(09-11-2022, 03:21 AM)sik94 Wrote: Update on S8...
I have kept names of guides and the lodge out of the text as requested.
"Just listened to a message from the guide.
And this is what he says...
They found S8 and he had a bad wound to his leg (similar to Blondie) and bleeding at the mouth area which suggested to them a broken jaw, heavily salivating and roaring.
50m away Dark Mane and 2 Talamati subs were found also with some fresh wounds and scarring. They said based on tracks and marks it suggested that they were the ones that faught."
According to guides and rangers as well as the lodge...
Talamatis were on a buffalo kill and Kambulas arrived and also fed on buffalo with Dark Mane.
The Talamatis were found yesterday and 50m off was Kambula Subs.
1/2 Talamati Young Males does have an injury to his leg and the female's tail has started bleeding badly again.
S8 has not been seen since but there is an audio of a male lion and they are going to check again tomorrow."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sounds like it was likely DM and a Talamati male were indeed the ones who chased S8 awhile back. Surprising given DM's poor condition at that time. Not surprising that three beat one, no matter how big that one is. As far as mouth injuries go, Scar Mbiri has done very well with a nasty mouth injury and vids of him when it first happened showed he was salivating as described here, and as you mentioned Blondie's leg injury and he's doing well. Point being, these creatures are as resilient as any on the planet, and until we hear different I believe we can still hope for his recovery. Maybe we will get some pics of him, or perhaps they will find it does not appear as bad as it did initially, given a little time.
So sad for S8 but this was expected because S8 was always chasing them and looking a fight.
I always suspected that the lions chasing S8 were DM and the young boys.
I didn't expect the young boys to backup DM in this way. They still haven't gone nomadic and aren't really in a coalition with DM, they aren't even territorial and neither really is DM anymore. Young males still living with their natal don't do this, even when they have a massive numerical advantage. This is pretty amazing I'm not gonna lie.
Young males still living with their pride do that. I remember reports of young Mapogos backing the West Street Males multiple times, as well as going in patrols with the WSM despite not being territorial yet. In fact, they were the reason the WSM weren't ousted in their last years. Not only that but they would also chase other prides away when their natal pride was getting attacked, even after the death of the WSM.
Can you find me one of these reports because it's news to me.
I'll just post some lines so this isn't a gigantic repost, but you can read everything here:
This month there were several sightings of two approximately five-year-old male lions hanging around the northern parts controlled by the West Street Males and also north of this, onto northern Mala Mala and Eyrefield.
Probably in response to this intrusion, we heard plenty of lion roaring in this area, a very obvious way to demonstrate that they, the West Street Males, are not yet ready to hand over power. One wonders just how much of this roaring was done by the four-and-a-half-year-old male lion of the Eyrefield Pride. His presence in the area would now probably be of some help to the West Street Males and although he is still deferential to them, they surely value his presence.
September 2003
Compared with previous months, the two West Street Male lions probably spent more time away from the lionesses of the Eyrefield Pride than usual. Often they were accompanied by the now impressively large young male lion from the Eyrefield Pride.Although some of these excursions appeared to be dedicated to territorial patrols, many involved finding food, either fortuitous scavenging or following after buffaloes.
November 2003
The two West Street Males survived another month and again emerged looking pretty good. They and the five-year-old male lion of the Eyrefield Pride roamed around, proclaiming their territory and hunting with the lionesses of the Eyrefield Pride.
Both West Street Males and the young male of the Eyrefield Pride, which at the time had been on their northern border roaring and scent-marking against continued incursions or threats thereof from the Split Rock Males.
May 2004
The West Street Male with the torn nose spent a fair amount of time with the young adult male of the Eyrefield Pride near the southern parts of the reserve, an area in which the Windmill Pride was operating and which has yet to be fully claimed by other male lions following the demise of the Ridge Rocks Males half-a-year-or-so ago. Here the two males, one in the beginning of his prime, the other clearly beyond it, ruled supreme. On one occasion, together with one of the three-and-a-half-year-old males of the Eyrefield Pride, they chased the Windmill Pride from the carcass of an adult waterbuck and claimed it for themselves.
The two Split Rock Males, which have been pressurising the West Street Males for many months now, again appeared to pull back and really weren't particularly active in West Street Male territory. One wonders just how much of this West Street Male survival is due to the presence of the young Eyrefield Male as well as the five sub adult males in the pride. All together, they would form something of a protective shield against outside aggression directed primarily towards the ageing West Street Males.
July 2004
The male lion with the torn nose spent some time in the far south of the reserve, in the company of a sub-adult male of the Eyrefield Pride.
[b]March 2005[/b]
The three male lions, including the adult, that had apparently left the Eyrefield Pride and looked to be getting ready to establish themselves as a territorial coalition, again spent a fair amount of time with other Eyrefield Pride members in March. [b]They certainly showed a certain level of continued loyalty to the pride. [/b]
June 2005
The males of the Eyrefield pride were seen to stick together this month, and provided good viewing. Evidence suggests that they had an encounter with four other male lions, all quite young, to the west of the Sand River on Charleston. These other males all suffered a few minor wounds, and it is unlikely that the Eyrefield Males escaped without any injury to themselves.
August 2005
The most interesting sightings involving Eyrefield Pride members were probably those when the pride clashed with the Styx Pride...
As was the case once before, the injured lioness and the three cubs of the Styx Pride moved well clear of the action, and did not take an active part in the exchange. The noise attracted the attention of 5 or 6 of the Eyrefield Males, who suddenly appeared on the scene, and chased the Styx Pride north and west.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The last WSM patrolling with Makhulu and the two older twins.
09-18-2022, 07:11 AM( This post was last modified: 09-18-2022, 07:36 AM by Mapokser )
(09-14-2022, 10:35 AM)sik94 Wrote:
(09-14-2022, 04:52 AM)afortich Wrote: I don't know anything about whether the Talamatis' behavior is common or not.
However, I think I've read or seen in a video that Makhulu mapogo helped West-Street males chasing intruders. Also remember that some of the Mapogos, the older ones, were helping patrolling.
If find the video, I will post it here.
It's definitely a little unusual.
Makhulu definitely wasn't chasing intruders or patrolling for the aging WST male as a subadult. lol. He did help the pride hunt and stuff but wasn't acting as a dominant male or formed a coalition with the WST male. The most young males still in their natal pride will do is what Jr Matimba did against the Bboys or Nguvu when the Southern Avocas first showed up in the Western block. Maybe some defensive posturing or some growling, definitely no physical contact or chasing intruders cuz that would be crazy.
Not as a subadult, but since he was 4 he was doing all of this, he was patrolling, roaring at rivals, scent-marking, and even winning mating rights from his fathers.
From Mala Mala:
October 2003
One other interesting incident this month, however, was when one of the lionesses of the Eyrefield Pride came into season and, in the absence of the West Street Males (still seeing off the Split Rock Males in follow-up operations), mated with the five-year-old Eyrefield Pride Male. When the West Street Males rejoined and the pair was still mating, they failed to chase the young male lion away and let them continue.
A mouth later after helping his fathers keeping rivals away, he went to fight for mating rights again, but this time one of the WSM got to mate first:
November 2003
[i]At the very beginning of the report-period, one of the Eyrefield Pride lionesses came into season and was calling for a male lion. Both West Street Males and the young male of the Eyrefield Pride, which at the time had been on their northern border roaring and scent-marking against continued incursions or threats thereof from the Split Rock Males, responded and, led by the young male lion, caught up with the lioness. Interestingly, rather than the young male lion dominating the lioness as happened last month, it was one of the West Street Males. The young male lion was lying close to where the courting pair was resting, his frustration plain to see.[/i]
As I showed in the post above, the other younger Eyrefield males also helped keeping the WSM in power and the 3yo twins were seen hanging out with them, even going to other territories and chasing other prides there, they also kept doing this work after the passing of their fathers in 2004 and would keep protecting the pride until early 2006 when they left for good and took the Sand River and Othawa prides in the West.
So it's definitely not a surprise that two 4yo males would back their father against a lone rival, any lion or lioness will help a pride mate in a confrontation if they have a clear upper hand, regardless if they are not in the same coalition or are not territorial.
So, it seems Nhenha and Tym are near the Londolozi airport, and Nhenha is hanging with a couple of the Kambulas. Also in the video is the Tsalala Princess and Mangheni females hanging together.
(09-11-2022, 03:21 AM)sik94 Wrote: Update on S8...
I have kept names of guides and the lodge out of the text as requested.
"Just listened to a message from the guide.
And this is what he says...
They found S8 and he had a bad wound to his leg (similar to Blondie) and bleeding at the mouth area which suggested to them a broken jaw, heavily salivating and roaring.
50m away Dark Mane and 2 Talamati subs were found also with some fresh wounds and scarring. They said based on tracks and marks it suggested that they were the ones that faught."
According to guides and rangers as well as the lodge...
Talamatis were on a buffalo kill and Kambulas arrived and also fed on buffalo with Dark Mane.
The Talamatis were found yesterday and 50m off was Kambula Subs.
1/2 Talamati Young Males does have an injury to his leg and the female's tail has started bleeding badly again.
S8 has not been seen since but there is an audio of a male lion and they are going to check again tomorrow."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sounds like it was likely DM and a Talamati male were indeed the ones who chased S8 awhile back. Surprising given DM's poor condition at that time. Not surprising that three beat one, no matter how big that one is. As far as mouth injuries go, Scar Mbiri has done very well with a nasty mouth injury and vids of him when it first happened showed he was salivating as described here, and as you mentioned Blondie's leg injury and he's doing well. Point being, these creatures are as resilient as any on the planet, and until we hear different I believe we can still hope for his recovery. Maybe we will get some pics of him, or perhaps they will find it does not appear as bad as it did initially, given a little time.
So sad for S8 but this was expected because S8 was always chasing them and looking a fight.
I always suspected that the lions chasing S8 were DM and the young boys.
I didn't expect the young boys to backup DM in this way. They still haven't gone nomadic and aren't really in a coalition with DM, they aren't even territorial and neither really is DM anymore. Young males still living with their natal don't do this, even when they have a massive numerical advantage. This is pretty amazing I'm not gonna lie.
Young males still living with their pride do that. I remember reports of young Mapogos backing the West Street Males multiple times, as well as going in patrols with the WSM despite not being territorial yet. In fact, they were the reason the WSM weren't ousted in their last years. Not only that but they would also chase other prides away when their natal pride was getting attacked, even after the death of the WSM.
Can you find me one of these reports because it's news to me.
I'll just post some lines so this isn't a gigantic repost, but you can read everything here:
This month there were several sightings of two approximately five-year-old male lions hanging around the northern parts controlled by the West Street Males and also north of this, onto northern Mala Mala and Eyrefield.
Probably in response to this intrusion, we heard plenty of lion roaring in this area, a very obvious way to demonstrate that they, the West Street Males, are not yet ready to hand over power. One wonders just how much of this roaring was done by the four-and-a-half-year-old male lion of the Eyrefield Pride. His presence in the area would now probably be of some help to the West Street Males and although he is still deferential to them, they surely value his presence.
September 2003
Compared with previous months, the two West Street Male lions probably spent more time away from the lionesses of the Eyrefield Pride than usual. Often they were accompanied by the now impressively large young male lion from the Eyrefield Pride.Although some of these excursions appeared to be dedicated to territorial patrols, many involved finding food, either fortuitous scavenging or following after buffaloes.
November 2003
The two West Street Males survived another month and again emerged looking pretty good. They and the five-year-old male lion of the Eyrefield Pride roamed around, proclaiming their territory and hunting with the lionesses of the Eyrefield Pride.
Both West Street Males and the young male of the Eyrefield Pride, which at the time had been on their northern border roaring and scent-marking against continued incursions or threats thereof from the Split Rock Males.
May 2004
The West Street Male with the torn nose spent a fair amount of time with the young adult male of the Eyrefield Pride near the southern parts of the reserve, an area in which the Windmill Pride was operating and which has yet to be fully claimed by other male lions following the demise of the Ridge Rocks Males half-a-year-or-so ago. Here the two males, one in the beginning of his prime, the other clearly beyond it, ruled supreme. On one occasion, together with one of the three-and-a-half-year-old males of the Eyrefield Pride, they chased the Windmill Pride from the carcass of an adult waterbuck and claimed it for themselves.
The two Split Rock Males, which have been pressurising the West Street Males for many months now, again appeared to pull back and really weren't particularly active in West Street Male territory. One wonders just how much of this West Street Male survival is due to the presence of the young Eyrefield Male as well as the five sub adult males in the pride. All together, they would form something of a protective shield against outside aggression directed primarily towards the ageing West Street Males.
July 2004
The male lion with the torn nose spent some time in the far south of the reserve, in the company of a sub-adult male of the Eyrefield Pride.
[b]March 2005[/b]
The three male lions, including the adult, that had apparently left the Eyrefield Pride and looked to be getting ready to establish themselves as a territorial coalition, again spent a fair amount of time with other Eyrefield Pride members in March. [b]They certainly showed a certain level of continued loyalty to the pride. [/b]
June 2005
The males of the Eyrefield pride were seen to stick together this month, and provided good viewing. Evidence suggests that they had an encounter with four other male lions, all quite young, to the west of the Sand River on Charleston. These other males all suffered a few minor wounds, and it is unlikely that the Eyrefield Males escaped without any injury to themselves.
August 2005
The most interesting sightings involving Eyrefield Pride members were probably those when the pride clashed with the Styx Pride...
As was the case once before, the injured lioness and the three cubs of the Styx Pride moved well clear of the action, and did not take an active part in the exchange. The noise attracted the attention of 5 or 6 of the Eyrefield Males, who suddenly appeared on the scene, and chased the Styx Pride north and west.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The last WSM patrolling with Makhulu and the two older twins.
Very interesting my friend, I knew I've read/seen this before.
For one moment I though I was getting crazy, thank you for providing the post!!
(09-18-2022, 08:28 AM)BA0701 Wrote: So, it seems Nhenha and Tym are near the Londolozi airport, and Nhenha is hanging with a couple of the Kambulas. Also in the video is the Tsalala Princess and Mangheni females hanging together.
Nhenha is the man . Let's hope Tsalala and Mangheni stay together after giving birth.
She's a bit smaller and shorter than most, but has a lot of spunk. She wasn't growling at Nhenha and didn't run from him until he got pretty close, so I think they recognized each other.
Her mother had the same build so Nhenha surely remembers that at least even if he can't figure out who she is.
She seems like a happy-go-lucky sort of lioness who appreciates company.
Tsalala female is now 3 1/2 years old as of September. She should be ready to mate at some point. Wonder if she will mate with the Plains Camps or maybe Nkuhuma..
She is truly such a lovely character to watch grow. My favorite lioness.
. Let's hope Tsalala and Mangheni stay together after giving birth.
