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(02-08-2022, 12:28 PM)Tonpa Wrote: This boy is getting big
It's way too dangerous. The talamatis boys should be together and also accompanied by some of their sister or mather/aunt.
They are just 3 yrs old. I think their 3rd brother did the similar mistake and met with his fate.
Kambulas are good example, We have not seen any sub kambula casualties because they grouped together every time.
(02-08-2022, 01:47 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Not good situation for Dark Mane if his Talamatis stay in Singita/western sector.
Well I think, both complement each other.
If DM needs talamatis for hunting , talamatis also needs DM for protection.
An aura of fully grown dark maned lion is totally different which creates abundant amount of terror in hyenas.
Intresting that the older female is roaring which is terrytorial sign.
I’m sure it’s protectionism towards the hyena but it does have the risk of attracting the Tumbelas. I would have for Dark Mane’s boys to run into a bad problem
(02-08-2022, 07:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I’m sure it’s protectionism towards the hyena
It was more than that. It wasn't a growl towards hyenas, but a terrytorial roar.
(02-08-2022, 07:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: but it does have the risk of attracting the Tumbelas
It would seem by this act that Talamatis are feeling very comfortable in the arena and are not afraid bringing attention of other lions from this arena.
(02-08-2022, 07:42 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I would have for Dark Mane’s boys to run into a bad problem
It would be actually intresting to see how would young Talamatis hold their ground if they would be encountered by Tumbela males. Talamatis seem to be a big boys. I am quite convinced that at this point already they would match in size some of the currently dominant in Sabi Sands adult males. The question atands how much of a confidance and dominant attidute those boys have at this point. Probably they would run away from the Tumbela males through it wouldn't be a huge suprise if they would decide to hold their ground.
02-08-2022, 09:31 PM( This post was last modified: 02-08-2022, 09:32 PM by Tr1x24 )
(02-08-2022, 08:51 PM)Potato Wrote: It would be actually intresting to see how would young Talamatis hold their ground if they would be encountered by Tumbela males. Talamatis seem to be a big boys. I am quite convinced that at this point already they would match in size some of the currently dominant in Sabi Sands adult males. The question atands how much of a confidance and dominant attidute those boys have at this point. Probably they would run away from the Tumbela males through it wouldn't be a huge suprise if they would decide to hold their ground.
They are just over 3 yrs old, theres no way these 2 boys would stand ground against 1, yet alone 2 dominant males on unknown territory to them, irrelevant if they are big boys or not. Just couple of months ago they run away from 1 dominant male, and that was with DM and whole pride by their side, in "their" area.
(02-08-2022, 08:51 PM)Potato Wrote: It was more than that. It wasn't a growl towards hyenas, but a terrytorial roar.
Thats definitely not a territorial roar, they are just showing hyenas who is the boss on this kill (rubbing feat afterwards), she just launched on hyena and then roared, how can we talk about teritorial roar as she is busy with hyenas and protecting kill, she wouldn't roared if hyenas where not there because she would eat, that means hyenas are the cause for that action.
I would't say there is no way for this. They would most likely run away, but I wouldn't be highly suprised if they wouldn't. One can just point example of one of the young Othawa males holding his ground on a kill against one of the Ndzenga males. Just to be clear I did not meant terrytorial takeover attempt from the Talamatis side, but just holding their ground if they would be atacked by Tumbela males.
(02-08-2022, 09:57 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Thats definitely not a territorial roar, they are just showing hyenas who is the boss on this kill (rubbing feat afterwards), she just launched on hyena and then roared
To my eye it is clearly terrytorial roar. If she would want just intimidate hyenas then she would just growl.
(02-08-2022, 09:57 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: how can we talk about teritorial roar as she is busy with hyenas and protecting kill,
One does not have anythink to do with the another. She chassed hyenas further off and then roared and scent marked.
(02-08-2022, 09:57 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: she wouldn't roared if hyenas where not there because she would eat, that means hyenas are the cause for that action.
1. She is already full belied (rest of her pride probably already left the kill to have some drink), she is protecting the kill probably just for sake of it.
2. If she would want to just keep on eating then she would do so after initailly chassing hyenas further away. She wouldn't need to alert her presence all around. She is not acting her like nomadic pride would, but like a terrytorial pride would.
02-08-2022, 11:49 PM( This post was last modified: 02-08-2022, 11:54 PM by Tr1x24 )
(02-08-2022, 10:34 PM)Potato Wrote: One can just point example of one of the young Othawa males holding his ground on a kill against one of the Ndzenga males. Just to be clear I did not meant terrytorial takeover attempt from the Talamatis side, but just holding their ground if they would be atacked by Tumbela males.
For 1 Othawa boy and Gingerella (Junior and other male immidiately run away) key word there is "on a kill", as carcass was the main focus and goal for Amahle, not Othawas, if there was no kill and Amahle focused on Othawas, all 4 would run away.
I mean theres many examples where dominant males where seen feeding with unrelated lions and even young males together, because the main focus is food at that moment, i would not call that "standing their ground" as dominant males are more focused on food then to kill those others.
If 2 Talamatis would straight up get attacked by even Skorro Jr. , they would just run away, they wouldn't fight unless they got caught.
(02-08-2022, 10:34 PM)Potato Wrote: To my eye it is clearly terrytorial roar. If she would want just intimidate hyenas then she would just growl.
(02-08-2022, 10:34 PM)Potato Wrote: One does not have anythink to do with the another. She chassed hyenas further off and then roared and scent marked.
It might look like territorial roar, but that has everything to do with hyenas being there, she displayed the same behavior when you see male lions overtake or defend their kill, they chase and beat females then roar and rub their feat to display dominance, they are letting the rest know that they are in charge here.. She displayed the same behavior, she was just showing hyenas that she is in charge of that kill.
02-09-2022, 12:38 AM( This post was last modified: 02-09-2022, 12:39 AM by Duco Ndona )
People always tend to overhype young male lions. But in reality they are still just overgrown scared cubs that still need to grow a few years to compete with an adult.
These cubs, if they were to go up against the Tumbellas, would just get chased of or killed. And if they don't do it, the pride will.
The only reason why they sometimes are seen at kills with rival males is that when there is plenty of food, there isn't much reason to fight or chase each other off and risk attracting someone bigger that steals the kill before you had a chance to eat. Not that that coalition has such an happy ending.
As for that roar. I think its just a soft contact call to coordinate or rally themselves against the hyenas.
A full on territorial roar would be far louder. (This barely was audible over the hyenas). And not done while the group is preoccupied with defending a kill. But like hunting, playing or grooming a social activity that sets apart time for in itself.
Other than the 6 Kambula Males, I don't see any young lions in Sabi Sands standing up to a dominant male. It goes against their instinct. They don't have the courage to do so. Even the 7 Birmingham Breakaway males ran from the Torchwood and Birmingham Young Male despite overwhelming them in numbers and being a similar age.
