There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Roaring is hardly an accurate way to map the position of lions. If Ubuso hasn't roared for a while, but his brothers did from the east. It would be very easy to assume he would be there with them.
And while they have lionesses that would like to mate, they have plenty of opportunities for that in Singita as well. So that probably didn't drive their expedition south.
So beyond an error, I don't really see any reason for the Mhangeni to come in contact with the N'was.
(01-24-2022, 02:38 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Roaring is hardly an accurate way to map the position of lions. If Ubuso hasn't roared for a while, but his brothers did from the east. It would be very easy to assume he would be there with them.
And while they have lionesses that would like to mate, they have plenty of opportunities for that in Singita as well. So that probably didn't drive their expedition south.
So beyond an error, I don't really see any reason for the Mhangeni to come in contact with the N'was.
I see all the reason for them to seek out a dominant and stable coalition. They have been a pride that hasn't produced or raised a decent litter in years. I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally try to reach the Nw's, even at the cost of losing the 1 subadult. As that cub reaches the age of 1.5 years or so, I wouldn't be surprised if they accept the Nw's as their new males.
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(01-24-2022, 03:55 AM)Bellateda Wrote: NYM is in a huge disadvantage now.
I agree, he is surrounded by big coalitions, best way for him to survive is if he finds a coaltions partner. Firming a coaltion with PC males or even with his half-brothers and father/uncle to his east would be good for him
(01-24-2022, 02:38 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Roaring is hardly an accurate way to map the position of lions. If Ubuso hasn't roared for a while, but his brothers did from the east. It would be very easy to assume he would be there with them.
And while they have lionesses that would like to mate, they have plenty of opportunities for that in Singita as well. So that probably didn't drive their expedition south.
So beyond an error, I don't really see any reason for the Mhangeni to come in contact with the N'was.
They actually did come to this area a few months ago. It is possible that they came here for food, as no other prides were pressuring them when they first came. This time, its possible that they are coming to Southern Sabi Sands for the same reason.
We still cannot rule out the possibility of them coming down so they can find a pride male, since the last cub is missing, the pride has no cubs so there is no reason for them to fight new males.
(01-24-2022, 07:48 AM)I find it fascinating that the Mangheni pride with experienced lionesses were able to raise only 1 cub to maturity since the Birmingham males took over the pride in 2018. The death of the OM in May 2021 probably has a lot to do with, since there were a total of 8 new cubs and one older cub at that time. I\m not sure if lion prides with 5 adult lionesses have had a more dismal record. Wrote:
(01-24-2022, 02:38 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Roaring is hardly an accurate way to map the position of lions. If Ubuso hasn't roared for a while, but his brothers did from the east. It would be very easy to assume he would be there with them.
And while they have lionesses that would like to mate, they have plenty of opportunities for that in Singita as well. So that probably didn't drive their expedition south.
So beyond an error, I don't really see any reason for the Mhangeni to come in contact with the N'was.
They actually did come to this area a few months ago. It is possible that they came here for food, as no other prides were pressuring them when they first came. This time, its possible that they are coming to Southern Sabi Sands for the same reason.
We still cannot rule out the possibility of them coming down so they can find a pride male, since the last cub is missing, the pride has no cubs so there is no reason for them to fight new males.
They spend months protecting these cubs, which were still alive when they started going sourh. They also have far more suitable partners in their own turf. So finding pride males can be ruled out. Finding food is a more reasonable motive.
The Nwaswitshakas are also to far away to be a reasonable candidate They mostly spend their time on the opposite end of the reserve and are already struggling with Nhenha and the Kambulas. So they obviously arent going to march in to deal with Nym and the PCmales
01-24-2022, 05:58 PM( This post was last modified: 01-24-2022, 06:25 PM by Tr1x24 )
(01-24-2022, 11:11 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: They spend months protecting these cubs, which were still alive when they started going sourh. They also have far more suitable partners in their own turf. So finding pride males can be ruled out. Finding food is a more reasonable motive.
The Nwaswitshakas are also to far away to be a reasonable candidate They mostly spend their time on the opposite end of the reserve and are already struggling with Nhenha and the Kambulas. So they obviously arent going to march in to deal with Nym and the PCmales
Lone NK male or 2 young PC males far more suitable then coalition of 4 prime males ??
Nwaswitshakas struggling with Nhenha and Kambulas? They dont, Nhenha and Kambulas with cubs are avoiding them.
Nwaswitshakas are absolute strongest coalition of Sabi Sands rn, controling central Sabi Sands from Lions Sands to almost northern Londolozi/Mala Mala, part of Londolozi (west) is Mhangenis territory, so no, Nwaswitshakas are not far away.
And why wouldn't Mhangenis moved into Nwaswitshakas territory in Londolozi /Umkumbe? Styx pride did the same thing.. Especially now when Kambulas are scattered in central Sabi Sands, Mhangenis could easily overpower them, Nwaswitshakas dont need to go in Singita.
01-24-2022, 07:14 PM( This post was last modified: 01-24-2022, 07:29 PM by lionuk )
(01-24-2022, 05:58 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: And why wouldn't Mhangenis moved into Nwaswitshakas territory in Londolozi /Umkumbe? Styx pride did the same thing.. Especially now when Kambulas are scattered in central Sabi Sands, Mhangenis could easily overpower them, Nwaswitshakas dont need to go in Singita.
Agree, N'was males are open for new females to mate, especially all of their females are unavailable atm cos they have cubs. Furthermore, they can provide stability and that's what Mhangeni Pride needs.
Male lions are always open for new females to mate. Its not their problem if the cubs dont make it. So thats not saying much.
You guys are severely overestimating the Nwaswitshakas.
Being a coalition of four is meaningless if your members are scattered all over the reserve. They just cant be with all four members at all those prides at the same time.
And thats going to be an issue with the Avocas, Nym and PC males around.
Why would the Mhangeni prefer abandoning a large part of their territory for a coalition that has so far shown little interest in them and may be gone to hang out with other prides most of the time. Over the males on their own territories that they wont have to share.
Besides, having more pride males is also a double edged sword as they also steal food. If a pride feels confident with just 2 males. They are not going to be seeking out having 4.
01-24-2022, 09:09 PM( This post was last modified: 01-24-2022, 09:18 PM by Tr1x24 )
(01-24-2022, 07:57 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Male lions are always open for new females to mate. Its not their problem if the cubs dont make it. So thats not saying much.
You guys are severely overestimating the Nwaswitshakas.
Being a coalition of four is meaningless if your members are scattered all over the reserve. They just cant be with all four members at all those prides at the same time.
And thats going to be an issue with the Avocas, Nym and PC males around.
Why would the Mhangeni prefer abandoning a large part of their territory for a coalition that has so far shown little interest in them and may be gone to hang out with other prides most of the time. Over the males on their own territories that they wont have to share.
And you are underestimating Nwaswitshakas, they behave just like any other big coalitions, they are not "scattered", idk from where is even this false narrative, because Eorenji was 1 time seen alone or what.
How do you think Majingilanes, or Bboys, or Mapogos etc etc controled multiple prides and large territory?
Isuses woth Avocas, NK or PC males?? Theres no way that neigbouring coalition of 1 or 2 will invade coalition of 4..
And Mhangenis are still in Sabi Sabi today, in their core territory.
