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Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places
Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places
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Lion and Tiger Fight Interaction in Zoo, Circus or Any Other Captive Places
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 (08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : Naah. In both the videos posted by @sanjay and @Sanju the tiger was the dominant one of the two.  (08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:Ah yeaah !(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : OK... But in the meantime the accident at Dubai occurred. And I had it in my mind. (08-10-2020, 06:33 PM)Spalea Wrote:(08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:Ah yeaah !(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : Oh ok... 
The lion also has problem in its hind leg. So I think he lost his balance due to strike by tiger easily.
I still think Lion is aggressive. Also video state that Lion is 20-30 Kg heavier than Tiger.   (08-10-2020, 08:49 PM)sanjay Wrote: The lion also has problem in its hind leg. So I think he lost his balance due to strike by tiger easily.These seem to be from same time as those earlier recent ones, it would be interesting to know timeline for different short glimpses from here and there. Anyway again a good video to show how close call. Lion slips in the first place when coming downhill, maybe learned a lesson there which can be seen in later(?) clips in which he stands just fine. Second fall is more because of fight and tiger manages to deliver a bit. Still when I watch this, change seems to happen during 0:20-0:22 when lion claws with hind leg right to the snout of the tiger causing it to stop attacking and making it back off. For me it looks like tiger felt some pain at that moment and became more cautious and less willing to push forward. Actually this seems to be the start to some videos which have been shared earlier. At 0:24-0:26 lions claw has penetrated skin of the tiger on chest area and tigers skin is stretched quite a lot. I think, that earlier was shared a video, which was edited so, that the part where tiger was on top was taken off, because some lion fan didn´t want to show that part. And it started just before that clawing to the tigers chest. I don´t understand why, because fight was all the time quite even and lion got up just fine. In these fights it´s natural that situations can change quickly. Still this video explains for me a bit better why that tiger didn´t seem so eager to fight more in the end. That snout clawing couldn´t feel good, it can be seen how lions claws stretch skin of tigers snout and tiger backs off right away. Lion then follows, surprise surprise :) Interesting fights to watch, it has to be admitted. Upper hands changing in split seconds.  (08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:May I ask how did you conclude that either animal was dominat in those two videos? I see one animal (lion) protecting a female and the other (tiger) being curious. Small "fights" breaks out, but neither comes out looking dominant at all. And the fact that they both come back to have these small brawls all the time shows to me that they don’t fear eachother at all and that neither seems to be the dominant animal.(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : (08-13-2020, 06:16 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:You want to wait for an animal be seriously wounded (like in Dubai) in order to say the other one is dominant ? It's always the same which initiates the small fights and the other one which retreats. It isn't serious but in this sequence the lion plays its role as dominant male, and the tiger is only curious but not very involved. Until proven otherwise the lionesses remain under the control of the lion.(08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:May I ask how did you conclude that either animal was dominat in those two videos? I see one animal (lion) protecting a female and the other (tiger) being curious. Small "fights" breaks out, but neither comes out looking dominant at all. And the fact that they both come back to have these small brawls all the time shows to me that they don’t fear eachother at all and that neither seems to be the dominant animal.(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : (08-13-2020, 06:16 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:(08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:May I ask how did you conclude that either animal was dominat in those two videos? I see one animal (lion) protecting a female and the other (tiger) being curious. Small "fights" breaks out, but neither comes out looking dominant at all. And the fact that they both come back to have these small brawls all the time shows to me that they don’t fear eachother at all and that neither seems to be the dominant animal.(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : I´m a little bit busy now but I thought to say how I see this situation and these discussions. It´s interesting how differently same situation can be seen and naturally many things can have effect. Based on what I´ve seen on these videos from this zoo and these two individuals, I see this lion as dominant big cat in that enclosure acting a lot like a dominant male lion does in lion pride. Then again does tiger agree always is another question. Lion makes those attacks, then goes back to lioness and looks over his shoulder what tiger is doing. If he isn´t satisfied to what he sees, he charges again and fights if tiger doesn´t show some gestures, which I can only guess what they are. But since sometimes lion just charges and sometimes goes to full brawl, there has to be something. Obviously lion has no fear, he turns his back to the tiger and walks away many times just like dominant males do in prides, when they drive off other males who are too close to some lioness or lionesses. So I see lion acting like lions do. Another thing then is, that "competitor" isn´t another lion and it can be the reason why there happens these brawls so often. Tiger might be a bit confused how to be and act there, when lioness is in heat and male lion changes to testosterone monster. If it would be another lion, it for sure would be easier. Probably only 1-2 brawls and then things back to more peaceful. Unnatural environment with limited space can and for sure does increase challenges. And this tiger isn´t a pushover just like that, not at all. It´s capable to fight clearly, both give and receive when looking all of these confrontations, which are now delivered in too many video clips. It would be much better to see all in right timeline and in one video. But lion and tiger fans do as they do, when they edit these. Overall, as said, I see this male lion as dominant big cat in that enclosure. Tiger, in my eyes, gives up after some time, whatever the reason is. Does it give up in future is the question for me. And if they are kept in same enclosure in future too, (when lionesses are in heat) does there happen one day a really serious fight... Leading to serious injury or death of one or both of these big boys. It would be a shame. I have understood that as a result of these brawls both got some scratches and tiger got one bigger wound on it´s forehead. Hopefully they would be able to handle situation so, that not leading to unnecessarily serious results. These are very good looking individuals despite malformed hindlegs of the lion and kind of shame if zookeepers let them fight just to get video clips :/ This is how I see this. Other people can disagree. By all means, I don´t mind :)
@Shadow :
About #174: agree with you and I just would add that in wild fights between male lions of different prides are much more serious in case of territory question than the fights within the same pride because of the lionesses in heat. Because in this last case the males of the same pride rule together over the same territory. And the territory questions always prevail over the "lionesses in heat" questions. This lion and this tiger having been breed together have learnt to interact in the same enclosure. Because of a single lioness in heat, the tiger becomes a male a little bit too curious for the male lion, but it remains a problem inside the same pride - male lion, lionesses and male tiger -, thus not a very serious conflict. Of course the male lion is able to perceive that this male tiger woluld be a huge opponent, and the small fight is already stopped. But over and over again this male lion like the dominant male of a pride will always prevent the tiger to come too close to the lioness. (08-13-2020, 06:52 PM)Spalea Wrote:(08-13-2020, 06:16 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:You want to wait for an animal be seriously wounded (like in Dubai) in order to say the other one is dominant ? It's always the same which initiates the small fights and the other one which retreats. It isn't serious but in this sequence the lion plays its role as dominant male, and the tiger is only curious but not very involved. Until proven otherwise the lionesses remain under the control of the lion.(08-10-2020, 06:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:May I ask how did you conclude that either animal was dominat in those two videos? I see one animal (lion) protecting a female and the other (tiger) being curious. Small "fights" breaks out, but neither comes out looking dominant at all. And the fact that they both come back to have these small brawls all the time shows to me that they don’t fear eachother at all and that neither seems to be the dominant animal.(08-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Spalea Wrote: @sanjay : What? No just from my own personal experience with captive cats where two male are being kept together, it was pretty clear to see who indeed was the dominant one. It will be different when we talk about two males from seperate species, but I can not see the tiger here being the dominant individual as Apollo claimed. That’s it... 
As far as I have seen, it seems the lion is the dominant cat in the pride. The tiger having been raised with the lion as a member, is not that eager to fight.
A male lion vs an unknown equally sized male tiger is on a whole new level. Because the tiger is also dominant in this case. Sk tiger doesn't give up, and this is the L vs T people look up to. This is why captive fights aren't that reliable to be considered as a part of this match-up. (08-13-2020, 07:27 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Shadow : I didn´t bring in anything about territorial fights because mentioning irrelevant things in wrong context often create confusion, when some people misunderstand by mistake or on purpose and then discussions go to weird directions. Keeping it simple is often better. Anyway in lion prides situations are often clear or made clear quite quickly. Then again fights can be surprisingly fierce even between brothers if there is challenge when mating season. Like some famous fights among Mapogos have shown if seeking examples. Still those are usually over soon, one brawl and that´s it. Dominant one can go back maybe once again just to be sure, that message was delivered. When looking at this lion and tiger I think, that even though this tiger and lion have been raised together, here can be seen that despite it, they are different species and it can cause extra brawls. What would be clear for another lion, what comes to behaving in lion coalition and pride, can be odd for a tiger causing difficulties. Even though captive, both have evolved to have somewhat different mentality and behavior "models". If that tiger would be another male lion, I don´t think that there would be that many brawls, message would be delivered and understood way easier. I think, that this tiger understood message partially though and didn´t try to challenge the lion too much. If not so, fight would have developed fast to way more serious. One interesting thing to think is, that how much influence close relationship between these two might have had. I don´t see either one to put all in at any point even though some harsh swipes etc. Like both trying to understand each others as much as they can. With some other lion and tiger there it could have ended up badly. (08-13-2020, 09:57 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: As far as I have seen, it seems the lion is the dominant cat in the pride. The tiger having been raised with the lion as a member, is not that eager to fight. What L vs T people look up isn´t important, those people are hopeless fanatics and what they think shouldn´t be taken too seriously. Basically all what there is between lions and tigers are captive fights and for people who are really interested about these interactions every such fight gives something. Sad part is, that these captive fights are often unnecessary and caused by people who don´t care welfare of these animals. While tiger fanatics make excuse after excuse when seeing an outcome they don´t like and lion fanatics doing just the same it´s clear that from those people no-one can wait any rational opinions or information. It´s that endless yes-no leading to nowhere. What I seek from these clips are unedited parts and it´s what I recommend to others too. These two "brothers" are familiar, but still they give a glimpse to it, what it is when a lion and tiger fight. They are fair pair, both captive and same size and age overall. Lion has deformed hindlegs, but it can move surprisingly good despite it. Anyway lion vs tiger has been debated for a long time, decades, maybe centuries. Fanboy forums won´t come up suddenly with some result ending it and we here won´t be able to do it either. These two and many other captive tigers and lions have showed why. All filmed fights are very even. In some cases lions gain upper hand and in some tigers and things can change so quickly. It´s no wonder that endless yes-no game between fanatics will continue in future too. There is no conclusive answer available. Every fight is different fight and one lion winning here or tiger there means nothing in bigger picture. This is of course how I see it. I wrote this in hope, that people who are interested would search information with open mind and avoiding people, who start sentences: "Lions always" or "tigers always"... That is what I have learned with time. |
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