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Why are lions social animals?

United States Pckts Offline
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#16

(11-08-2015, 01:27 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Okey @Pckts where I read this it just said the females where tested, nothing about males.

Still Jon Grinnell's studie showed something different, males would approatch even outnumberd 1:3, and there is videos where a large male is challenging 4 males, but also where on male is running away from two. I'm sure it depends much on induviduval males. 

Those dummy tests are not accurate IMO, there is nothing natural about the Lions behavior towards the dummy, I've seen countless interractions between lions in the wild and captivity and it's not The same. 

The lions seemed confussed about The whole thing.

The dummy tests seemed very realistic to me, it was astonishing to see the golden maned male refuse to approach the dark maned dummy and the female abandon the golden male to go off with the black maned dummy when they threw him in the jeep and drove away with him.
On the flip side, the black maned male and female went straight toward the Male dummy and it was actually the female who begin the attack but the male was right there with her and they didn't stop until the dummy was completely removed of its "skin" and was unrecognizable.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#17

It depends the environment where they live.

The lion was evolved in the environment where collectivism > individualism, that's why they used to form the coalition with the pride.
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United States BoldChamp Offline
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#18

(11-08-2015, 01:27 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Okey @Pckts where I read this it just said the females where tested, nothing about males.

Still Jon Grinnell's studie showed something different, males would approatch even outnumberd 1:3, and there is videos where a large male is challenging 4 males, but also where on male is running away from two. I'm sure it depends much on induviduval males. 

Those dummy tests are not accurate IMO, there is nothing natural about the Lions behavior towards the dummy, I've seen countless interractions between lions in the wild and captivity and it's not The same. 

The lions seemed confussed about The whole thing.

I think the dummy tests are pretty accurate, the only difference being the dummy lions can't fight back. The real lions didn't know the dummies were not real, and in situations where lions confront real threats, the reaction of said threat can shape the actions of the defenders.
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#19

I personally disagree, the animals reacted differently and Maybe the golden maned male felt it was uncomfortable, but that might have been for different reasons than just The color of the mane, but could be that a big thing in the cage looking like a lion without any movements or smell could be the reason. Lions react very different, some lions in Kristainsand animals park where scared to death of a new safri jeep who was put in the cage including a Black maned male lion. Some of the youngsters and lionesses climbed The car right away. The same thing happend when a zebra dummy with meat inside was put in The cage, some lions where sceptical while some teared it appart. 

I think espessially the none movement thing plays a big factor. if You had put an new real unknown male inside The cage the lioness would be afraid and sceptical for sure and probably ganged up with the male who would confront any new male no matter what color of the mane that male would have had. I know The color and size represents both strength and condition and show's usually a stronger male lion, but The whole thing is a little overrated. light blonde maned male Lions can be big and bold aswell. Aslan is much bigger, stronger and aggressive than his brother who has a big black mane. Aslan does also dominate when the females are receptive for mating and fathers all cubs. The fact that this happens in The wild aswell show's that In my personal opinion this is slightly over spoken.
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#20

@BoldChamp I'm really not sure what the lions are thinking when they see the dummy. I really doubt they thought that this was another lion. Sure didn't look like that.
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#21
( This post was last modified: 01-12-2016, 08:42 PM by LionKiss )

when I focus to their eyes, I can feel that they understand a lot more than any other animal.
They focus on you too, trying to understand your deeper thoughts.
It is like having a human in front of you who for some reason has been dressed as a lion.

This superior nature brings Lions closer to human,
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#22
( This post was last modified: 12-31-2015, 06:43 PM by LionKiss )

(12-31-2015, 05:58 PM)Spalea Wrote: @LionKiss

To be anthropomorphic (towards lions and any animals) means that you lend, you attribute some human features and characters to the lion. Animals are not aware of good and evil. A lion which kill a zebra isn't fiercer than this zebra eating "mercilessly" some grass. The lion makes what his instinct pushes him to do, no more no less. But a non-scientist man seeing him to kill a prey would say that he is a cruel animal.

The human psychology isn't at all the animal psychology. You cannot analyse the animals' behaviour with the same terms of the men' psychology without, at least, redefining these terms.

But OK, when you see some lions or any predators hunting, you can of course deduce some form of intelligence because hunting a prey is much more difficult than grazing some grass.


how do you explain this?







Lions have human characteristics in their behavior. First they want to conquer territories and they defend their land with their lives, this is a very human behavior too. Second Lions want their bloodline to be dominant in the future and they want to destroy other Lions in order to achieve this. Humans have done economic, religious, national wars in order their culture to prevail others'. It is very similar.


(12-31-2015, 06:10 PM)brotherbear Wrote: I have myself said more than once that the lion is at war with the spotted hyena. This does not mean that these predators sit around discussing battle plans. But they certainly appear to greatly despise each other. Perhaps we should not get too involved in word usage and not put every word under a microscope. 


Hyenas kill lion cubs and that's one more reason Hyenas are Lions' worst enemy
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#23

@LionKiss:

You ask: " Lions have human characteristics in their behavior. First they want to conquer territories and they defend their land with their lives, this is a very human behavior too. Second Lions want their bloodline to be dominant in the future and they want to destroy other Lions in order to achieve this. Humans have done economic, religious, national wars in order their culture to prevail others'. It is very similar. "

Yes it is very similar... But to maintain a dominance, a family, a pride, thus a bloodline, has to conquer a territory against an other pride which enjoyed this same territory. Lions and humans can have similar aims, but as you say yourself humans do economic, religious, national wars, not lions. Because humans have developed an intelligence that lions don't and didn't get. Humans are cerebral creatures, lions are only instinctive. You must consider the content (to conquer a new territory) and the form (the way to do it).
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India brotherbear Offline
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#24

What's to explain. Casey Anderson has a similar if not better relationship with Brutus. Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey made remark progress with great apes in the wild. Time, patience, and a great deal of knowledge and common sense are the naturalists most important tools. 
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#25

(12-31-2015, 07:57 PM)Spalea Wrote: Yes it is very similar... But to maintain a dominance, a family, a pride, thus a bloodline, has to conquer a territory against an other pride which enjoyed this same territory. Lions and humans can have similar aims, but as you say yourself humans do economic, religious, national wars, not lions. Because humans have developed an intelligence that lions don't and didn't get. Humans are cerebral creatures, lions are only instinctive. You must consider the content (to conquer a new territory) and the form (the way to do it).


It would be a joke to believe that I ever fully compared humans to Lions.
I just said Lions have some similar behavioral characteristics as humans which you don't find in other animals.
I did not say in the future they will go to school and get Education.

and where the instinct come from?
how do you explain that the most competent Lioness hunter will strike the victim 3rd? and not 1st,
why do they let the less competent hunters strike first and second and then the most competent give a full blow and actually get the hunt under their control?
This is a strategy they use. It is a thoughtful plan similar to what humans do?
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#26

(12-31-2015, 07:58 PM)brotherbear Wrote: What's to explain. Casey Anderson has a similar if not better relationship with Brutus. Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey made remark progress with great apes in the wild. Time, patience, and a great deal of knowledge and common sense are the naturalists most important tools. 

in fact I was asking @Spalea to explain the behavior of those lions in the video but, please, you are very much welcome to answer if you wish.

Casey or Kevin it does not matter the point is that both have a special relationship with the Lions.

You said: "Time, patience, and a great deal of knowledge and common sense are the naturalists most important tools."

this mean that Lions can put aside their wild insticts if some certain conditions are met, so they can show some development.
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United States Polar Offline
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#27
( This post was last modified: 12-31-2015, 11:37 PM by Polar )

(12-31-2015, 06:38 PM)LionKiss Wrote:
(12-31-2015, 05:58 PM)Spalea Wrote: @LionKiss

To be anthropomorphic (towards lions and any animals) means that you lend, you attribute some human features and characters to the lion. Animals are not aware of good and evil. A lion which kill a zebra isn't fiercer than this zebra eating "mercilessly" some grass. The lion makes what his instinct pushes him to do, no more no less. But a non-scientist man seeing him to kill a prey would say that he is a cruel animal.

The human psychology isn't at all the animal psychology. You cannot analyse the animals' behaviour with the same terms of the men' psychology without, at least, redefining these terms.

But OK, when you see some lions or any predators hunting, you can of course deduce some form of intelligence because hunting a prey is much more difficult than grazing some grass.


how do you explain this?







Lions have human characteristics in their behavior. First they want to conquer territories and they defend their land with their lives, this is a very human behavior too. Second Lions want their bloodline to be dominant in the future and they want to destroy other Lions in order to achieve this. Humans have done economic, religious, national wars in order their culture to prevail others'. It is very similar.  


(12-31-2015, 06:10 PM)brotherbear Wrote: I have myself said more than once that the lion is at war with the spotted hyena. This does not mean that these predators sit around discussing battle plans. But they certainly appear to greatly despise each other. Perhaps we should not get too involved in word usage and not put every word under a microscope. 


Hyenas kill lion cubs and that's one more reason Hyenas are Lions' worst enemy

There've been recorded cases of lions of both sexes killing hyena and AFD cubs, AFDs killing both lion and hyena cubs, and even various herbivores killing all 3 carnivores' cubs. One day a lion may fight off a hyena, another day an AFD. It all depends. Big thing is, lions are too busy caring if they are "king of the jungle" or "courageous" and all that; they're just trying to do the job a usual cat does, become a hyperpredator. The ideas you showed can be applied to any other animal as well. Tigers want their bloodline to be dominant as well and they want to destroy other Tigers in order to achieve this as well. Religion, nationalism, and economy are human ideas, territoriality and rivalry of similar beings (cats to cats, and humans to humans) and dominance is a universal achievement of the male gender of any animal.

And for the video you showed, tigers/bears/lions/any animal used to human interaction can become friendly towards humans as well...

Tiger And Man Best Friends
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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India sanjay Offline
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#28
( This post was last modified: 01-04-2016, 12:26 PM by sanjay )

I think you guys are debating good but the title of thread does not support it.
It would be better to make a separate thread for this discussion

Edit: I have moved part of this debate into new thread http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-animals-...n=lastpost
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#29

those two videos show a lot about the social side of the Lion and the Lion-Human interaction, there are some info about Hyenas, (one of them has been posted already)








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Greece LionKiss Offline
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#30

http://www.faithtap.com/5031/lioness-mot...-baby-fox/
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