There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(03-26-2017, 06:30 PM)Pckts Wrote: @Rishi
Min says Jai was 215 kg then 220kg, I got confirmation he was 220kg empty from dr. Habib, I believe it was @sanjay who spoke with another dr. Who said Jai was 238kg and adjusted for scale error.
Min has many contacts with the forest dept. and that is where he got bheema's weight but body measurements and specifics have yet to be determined, I know the neck claim but we should have chest, shoulder and hbl/tl as well. Min also shows a tendency of bias towards Kahna tigers and extremely bias towards munna and his bloodline in general while trying to devalue other males so make sure you take what he says with a grain of salt. But I do agree with him and sharad about uma's size since I've seen other well known naturalists agree with those observations. @Pantherinae
For me, trying to determine size differences between c. Indian tigers and terai/Assam tigers is impossible. You don't get to see as many photos of the terai/Assam tigers and when you do see them, they're usually far off.
Ah okey well I've sort of got the same feeling being told about his views on tigers that he seems a little fanatical towards Munna hehe, but my brother really likes him, so he's probably alright, I have never talked to the guy btw.. anyways I do also think some Kanha males looks huge! And I agree with you Pckts that Uma looks huge and I have been told by many that he is, probably my favorite cat!
(03-27-2017, 05:45 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Does anybody have pictures of Madla? :)
& more importantly info...
I know Hsiryfoot died by falling in a well just after "Tigers of the emerald forest" was filmed...What happened to Madla..??
I spoke to some of my sources who have seen Bengal tigers and African and Asiatic lions. All of them said Bengals were taller and longer than lions.
Sometime back I had a discussion with a very reputable person in tigernation about this and he clealry said Bengals are larger (taller and longer).
I also saw Minha's discussion with a person in fb regarding this. It was specifically about Kanha tigers and African lions and he too clearly said to Minha, "No way, Kanha tigers are bigger."
Since you are visiting India and have visited Africa already, kindly share your views too after the visit.
Sauraha male also had a neck girth of 80cm.
Madla had a neck girth of 90cm.
Hey @Apollo I have seen both tigers and lions in the wild. And I can share my opinion. the average male lion (Masi Mara and Krüger) seems quite lean and are quite a bit smaller, than a male tiger, hence I have probably seen (one of) the biggest male lions alive in Caesar from Masai Mara and he was, at least he appeared bigger than the biggest male tiger I've seen (Bamera), but Bamera although a very cool tiger is not a giant. I'm sure big male tigers are quite a bit bigger than even Caesar aswell. And I have been told that Umarpani and Munna (the only two I asked about) where bigger than Caesar by a guy who had seen them all. So now I'm going to Kanha myself for 2 weeks next summer with Umarpani as my target, (and I think I will take 4 days in Tadoba or Bandhavgarh as a backup just to spot a tiger). And then I can really create my own view on how two giants of the species compare.
I spoke to some of my sources who have seen Bengal tigers and African and Asiatic lions. All of them said Bengals were taller and longer than lions.
Sometime back I had a discussion with a very reputable person in tigernation about this and he clealry said Bengals are larger (taller and longer).
I also saw Minha's discussion with a person in fb regarding this. It was specifically about Kanha tigers and African lions and he too clearly said to Minha, "No way, Kanha tigers are bigger."
Since you are visiting India and have visited Africa already, kindly share your views too after the visit.
Sauraha male also had a neck girth of 80cm.
Madla had a neck girth of 90cm.
Hey @Apollo I have seen both tigers and lions in the wild. And I can share my opinion. the average male lion (Masi Mara and Krüger) seems quite lean and are quite a bit smaller, than a male tiger, hence I have probably seen (one of) the biggest male lions alive in Caesar from Masai Mara and he was, at least he appeared bigger than the biggest male tiger I've seen (Bamera), but Bamera although a very cool tiger is not a giant. I'm sure big male tigers are quite a bit bigger than even Caesar aswell. And I have been told that Umarpani and Munna (the only two I asked about) where bigger than Caesar by a guy who had seen them all. So now I'm going to Kanha myself for 2 weeks next summer with Umarpani as my target, (and I think I will take 4 days in Tadoba or Bandhavgarh as a backup just to spot a tiger). And then I can really create my own view on how two giants of the species compare.
Cheers :)
Uma is a tough male to spot, I'm not holding my breath. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure, but I know I need to get lucky to see him.
As long as I can see one of the big males in Kahna, I'll be happy. (Khari Ghati, Munna, Link 7, thin stripe male or Uma) are my targets for Kahna.
For Tadoba (Matkusar, Bajrang, Waghdoh) are my hopefuls and Pench I really would love to see (tarzan, Raiyakassi, BMW or Prince)
But I know there's I chance I see none, so I will not be greedy. I also want to go back right after monsoon season so I can see them in their prime weights since they usually are much leaner during the summer time.
Just for good measure, here's the big fella just spotted
Bapu Tadoba
TATR. .....
Devada zone ...,
Today it was the amazing
*This image is copyright of its original author
?sighted,
This season second time sighted male tiger
I spoke to some of my sources who have seen Bengal tigers and African and Asiatic lions. All of them said Bengals were taller and longer than lions.
Sometime back I had a discussion with a very reputable person in tigernation about this and he clealry said Bengals are larger (taller and longer).
I also saw Minha's discussion with a person in fb regarding this. It was specifically about Kanha tigers and African lions and he too clearly said to Minha, "No way, Kanha tigers are bigger."
Since you are visiting India and have visited Africa already, kindly share your views too after the visit.
Sauraha male also had a neck girth of 80cm.
Madla had a neck girth of 90cm.
Hey @Apollo I have seen both tigers and lions in the wild. And I can share my opinion. the average male lion (Masi Mara and Krüger) seems quite lean and are quite a bit smaller, than a male tiger, hence I have probably seen (one of) the biggest male lions alive in Caesar from Masai Mara and he was, at least he appeared bigger than the biggest male tiger I've seen (Bamera), but Bamera although a very cool tiger is not a giant. I'm sure big male tigers are quite a bit bigger than even Caesar aswell. And I have been told that Umarpani and Munna (the only two I asked about) where bigger than Caesar by a guy who had seen them all. So now I'm going to Kanha myself for 2 weeks next summer with Umarpani as my target, (and I think I will take 4 days in Tadoba or Bandhavgarh as a backup just to spot a tiger). And then I can really create my own view on how two giants of the species compare.
Cheers :)
Uma is a tough male to spot, I'm not holding my breath. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure, but I know I need to get lucky to see him.
As long as I can see one of the big males in Kahna, I'll be happy. (Khari Ghati, Munna, Link 7, thin stripe male or Uma) are my targets for Kahna.
For Tadoba (Matkusar, Bajrang, Waghdoh, Pandu) are my hopefuls and Pench I really would love to see (tarzan, Raiyakassi, BMW or Prince)
But I know there's I chance I see none, so I will not be greedy. I also want to go back right after monsoon season so I can see them in their prime weights since they usually are much leaner during the summer time.
Just for good measure, here's the big fella just spotted
Bapu Tadoba
TATR. .....
Devada zone ...,
Today it was the amazing
*This image is copyright of its original author
?sighted,
This season second time sighted male tiger
*This image is copyright of its original author
? (waghdoh male )
*This image is copyright of its original author
I've been in contact with Sharad vats recently and he told me that the largest Tiger he's ever seen in his life, was the Umarpani male from Kanha. And he also said that the largest Tigers in India come from Kanha and Pench, in his opinion. But mind you, he's never seen a Kaziranga or Orang park beast before!
I spoke to some of my sources who have seen Bengal tigers and African and Asiatic lions. All of them said Bengals were taller and longer than lions.
Sometime back I had a discussion with a very reputable person in tigernation about this and he clealry said Bengals are larger (taller and longer).
I also saw Minha's discussion with a person in fb regarding this. It was specifically about Kanha tigers and African lions and he too clearly said to Minha, "No way, Kanha tigers are bigger."
Since you are visiting India and have visited Africa already, kindly share your views too after the visit.
Sauraha male also had a neck girth of 80cm.
Madla had a neck girth of 90cm.
Hey @Apollo I have seen both tigers and lions in the wild. And I can share my opinion. the average male lion (Masi Mara and Krüger) seems quite lean and are quite a bit smaller, than a male tiger, hence I have probably seen (one of) the biggest male lions alive in Caesar from Masai Mara and he was, at least he appeared bigger than the biggest male tiger I've seen (Bamera), but Bamera although a very cool tiger is not a giant. I'm sure big male tigers are quite a bit bigger than even Caesar aswell. And I have been told that Umarpani and Munna (the only two I asked about) where bigger than Caesar by a guy who had seen them all. So now I'm going to Kanha myself for 2 weeks next summer with Umarpani as my target, (and I think I will take 4 days in Tadoba or Bandhavgarh as a backup just to spot a tiger). And then I can really create my own view on how two giants of the species compare.
Cheers :)
Uma is a tough male to spot, I'm not holding my breath. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure, but I know I need to get lucky to see him.
As long as I can see one of the big males in Kahna, I'll be happy. (Khari Ghati, Munna, Link 7, thin stripe male or Uma) are my targets for Kahna.
For Tadoba (Matkusar, Bajrang, Waghdoh, Pandu) are my hopefuls and Pench I really would love to see (tarzan, Raiyakassi, BMW or Prince)
But I know there's I chance I see none, so I will not be greedy. I also want to go back right after monsoon season so I can see them in their prime weights since they usually are much leaner during the summer time.
Just for good measure, here's the big fella just spotted
Bapu Tadoba
TATR. .....
Devada zone ...,
Today it was the amazing
*This image is copyright of its original author
?sighted,
This season second time sighted male tiger
*This image is copyright of its original author
? (waghdoh male )
*This image is copyright of its original author
I've been in contact with Sharad vats recently and he told me that the largest Tiger he's ever seen in his life, was the Umarpani male from Kanha. And he also said that the largest Tigers in India come from Kanha and Pench, in his opinion. But mind you, he's never seen a Kaziranga or Orang park beast before!
Sharad cetainly loves him some Umarpani, we all know that.
I've seen Tigers from Kanha, Pench and Tadoba. It's fairly safe to say that Kanha Tigers are probably a bit more bulky than the 2 others I named and I know for sure that some well known large males in Pench aren't as large as some well known large males in Kanha. The reason for this is a couple of factors, Kanha is cooler year round than Pench and Tadoba, it has more prey availability, hilly terrain and it's much larger. It's only natural that the Tigers there would benefit from those factors. In regards to Kaziranga, I also have spoken to quite a few who have seen Kaziranga Tigers and they usually say that Kaziranga Tigers are larger.
Here's a newer one I haven't posted here yet.
Indranil Paul
"Kaziranga seemed bigger to me compared to their counterparts in other parks where I have visited. Maybe,the ease of hunting their prey hiding inside the tall elephant grass is a factor.Also bigger prey like the wild Buffalo, Rhino and even sometimes elephant calf also play a role in determining the size.You may have noticed that tigers in captivity are huge in size as compared to the wild ones because they get their meal without any effort and thus fat proportion increases resulting in their size.Also,wild tigers preying on bigger animals like domestic cattle,gaurs etc also tend to grow bigger in size."
11-28-2017, 12:00 PM( This post was last modified: 11-28-2017, 12:03 PM by Roflcopters )
I find it interesting that you think that, I read recently in a report that stated some of the Kanha legends had Pench ancestry and it was vice versa. male tigers from Pench and Kanha are known to travel around and without a doubt. BMW, Mukhtar, Samraat, Tarzan and Khursapar male are all in the same weight range as Umarpani, Kingfisher, Konda and old Banda. unless they weigh them, it's hard to say if Kanha truly stands out. I respect your opinion but then we have Umred, Bandhavgarh, old Panna bloodline, Satpura and Tigers of Melghat. they are all more or less the same, heaviest in all parks could rival each other. For example, Tadoba may not have the biggest males on average but Wagdoh could rival any big guy from any sides of Mahrashtra and Madhya Pradesh. personally i always thought Pench, MH males stood out the most for me but its good to see other mind sets. Umred is going to be very interesting, at the rate Jaichand is growing. he will be a beast.
I spoke to some of my sources who have seen Bengal tigers and African and Asiatic lions. All of them said Bengals were taller and longer than lions.
Sometime back I had a discussion with a very reputable person in tigernation about this and he clealry said Bengals are larger (taller and longer).
I also saw Minha's discussion with a person in fb regarding this. It was specifically about Kanha tigers and African lions and he too clearly said to Minha, "No way, Kanha tigers are bigger."
Since you are visiting India and have visited Africa already, kindly share your views too after the visit.
Sauraha male also had a neck girth of 80cm.
Madla had a neck girth of 90cm.
Hey @Apollo I have seen both tigers and lions in the wild. And I can share my opinion. the average male lion (Masi Mara and Krüger) seems quite lean and are quite a bit smaller, than a male tiger, hence I have probably seen (one of) the biggest male lions alive in Caesar from Masai Mara and he was, at least he appeared bigger than the biggest male tiger I've seen (Bamera), but Bamera although a very cool tiger is not a giant. I'm sure big male tigers are quite a bit bigger than even Caesar aswell. And I have been told that Umarpani and Munna (the only two I asked about) where bigger than Caesar by a guy who had seen them all. So now I'm going to Kanha myself for 2 weeks next summer with Umarpani as my target, (and I think I will take 4 days in Tadoba or Bandhavgarh as a backup just to spot a tiger). And then I can really create my own view on how two giants of the species compare.
Cheers :)
Uma is a tough male to spot, I'm not holding my breath. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for sure, but I know I need to get lucky to see him.
As long as I can see one of the big males in Kahna, I'll be happy. (Khari Ghati, Munna, Link 7, thin stripe male or Uma) are my targets for Kahna.
For Tadoba (Matkusar, Bajrang, Waghdoh, Pandu) are my hopefuls and Pench I really would love to see (tarzan, Raiyakassi, BMW or Prince)
But I know there's I chance I see none, so I will not be greedy. I also want to go back right after monsoon season so I can see them in their prime weights since they usually are much leaner during the summer time.
Just for good measure, here's the big fella just spotted
Bapu Tadoba
TATR. .....
Devada zone ...,
Today it was the amazing
*This image is copyright of its original author
?sighted,
This season second time sighted male tiger
*This image is copyright of its original author
? (waghdoh male )
*This image is copyright of its original author
I've been in contact with Sharad vats recently and he told me that the largest Tiger he's ever seen in his life, was the Umarpani male from Kanha. And he also said that the largest Tigers in India come from Kanha and Pench, in his opinion. But mind you, he's never seen a Kaziranga or Orang park beast before!
Sharad cetainly loves him some Umarpani, we all know that.
I've seen Tigers from Kanha, Pench and Tadoba. It's fairly safe to say that Kanha Tigers are probably a bit more bulky than the 2 others I named and I know for sure that some well known large males in Pench aren't as large as some well known large males in Kanha. The reason for this is a couple of factors, Kanha is cooler year round than Pench and Tadoba, it has more prey availability, hilly terrain and it's much larger. It's only natural that the Tigers there would benefit from those factors. In regards to Kaziranga, I also have spoken to quite a few who have seen Kaziranga Tigers and they usually say that Kaziranga Tigers are larger.
Here's a newer one I haven't posted here yet.
Indranil Paul
"Kaziranga seemed bigger to me compared to their counterparts in other parks where I have visited. Maybe,the ease of hunting their prey hiding inside the tall elephant grass is a factor.Also bigger prey like the wild Buffalo, Rhino and even sometimes elephant calf also play a role in determining the size.You may have noticed that tigers in captivity are huge in size as compared to the wild ones because they get their meal without any effort and thus fat proportion increases resulting in their size.Also,wild tigers preying on bigger animals like domestic cattle,gaurs etc also tend to grow bigger in size."
Nah, i think Pench males easily match the Kanha males for size. Look at Tarzan and BMW, their massive. Umarpani male is huge, but i've seen bigger Tigers then him. Here's a new video recently uploaded by Sharad vats of the Umarpani male...
Every guide I spoke with said the same thing, BMW, Ryakassi and Handsome (khusapr male) are all similar size, Tarzan was the largest tiger there, bar none. Prince is less seen but said to be similar to the other 3 mentioned.
The other tourist group I befriended were very lucky, they spotted the BMW male on 2 separate safaris and spent quite a bit of time with him up close, meters from the Gypsy. Then later in my trip we both went to Kanha after pench, again they were extremely lucky and spotted what they thought was the Rhonda male but turned out to be the Sangam Male and what they said stuck with me. They said that the BMW male is not extremely large, more of an average sized male but bulky but when compared to the Sangam male, the BMW was much smaller. They said the Sangam male was bigger in every way, he was the much more impressive Tiger. The next day after they left, I got a runoff of their luck, I then spotted the Sangam male with my friend who arranged the trip and my GF plus the guides of course. My friend who has seen Wagdoh, Matkusar, Munna, Katezari, Sangam etc. said the Sangam Male was similar size to Munna and the guides who I spoke with in Kanha all said that Munna, Bheema, Link 7, Sangam were all very close in size compared to one another, it's very hard to tell who's actually larger between them in their prime. Umarpani is much less seen, but the guides who saw him all said he was a large cat and T-1 was said to be very large as well but he's not as seen either.
Kanha V Pench females
I saw the Durga Female in pench, she is said to be the same size as Collarwali and as many here know, I saw the Link 8 female in Kanha and she was massive, she was the largest female wild Cat I have seen and the Budbudi female in Kanha is also said to be equally as large, the same guy I went to kanha with was just there again and he saw the Budbudi Female this time and he confirmed that they are similar in size. The durga female also had 3 sub adult cubs, 2 females and 1 male, the father of the Sub Adults is the Handsome male and while the Male sub adult was a good size I can guarantee he would not be the size of the Sangam Male when full grown, he just didn't have the frame to match him.
Like @Roflcopters said, in Tadoba the tigers are a bit less dense and seem to be smaller overall but the largest cat my friend had every seen was Wagdoh, he's the same height as Munna, Sangam etc. but he is longer and thicker. But the tigers in Tadoba aren't as muscular in frame, even when you look at the likes of Shivaji, Katezari, Waghdoh, Mutkasur, they seem a little softer in musculature, Gabbar seemed more dense but he wasn't the largest Tiger around.
Choti Tara and the other female I saw were both smaller than the Link 8 female by a good margin, the male I saw with her was definitely large but not nearly as dense as the Sangam male.
Bandhavgarh Tigers:
There certainly are some large males but not as many IMO, Bhim and Jobhi certainly are very large but Blue Eyes wasn't extremely large, Mr. X doesn't seem to large, Bamera's other son doesn't seem that large, Mahaman male isn't that large and others I have spoken with who have seen them say they aren't quite as large as when compared with Kanha so take it for what it's worth.
I hope that you make it to India one day and you see these parks, you will then understand why Kanha has a tendency to produce larger cats. It's massive, the prey density is higher and the weather is much more accommodating. Even in Pench which is much cooler than Tadoba and more hilly, it's still thanks to man made watering holes that Khusapar even has a Tiger population, it most likely wouldn't support any tiger population during the summer month's otherwise, the Touria gate would but I had no luck there when searching for tigers.
In closing, all parks will have large and small tigers, like all wild animals, they come in many sizes and shapes. But parks with better resources will produce larger animals more often. This is proven in Africa and India, the herbivores are larger in the Ngorongoro Crater because the resources are better and the herbivores were larger in Kanha for the same reason. This is from my personal experience and others I have spoken with, so take it for what you will.
Where is the biggest bengal tigers?
