There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(06-21-2022, 04:41 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: Snow leopard kill Himalayan brown bear
"A two-year old brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) was killed and partially eaten by a snow leopard in Kazahkstan, but this must be quite unusual" (Heptner and Sludskii 1992)
There is an account where a snow leopard killed a two year old Himalayan brown bear but that is the only interaction I can find.
The Himalayan brown bear is the only brown bear subspecies that gets dominated by a black bear. Therefore, I am certain the tiger will consider even a male Himalayan brown bear as prey should they come across each other. An account:
Also it is going to be extremely hard to see interactions between tigers and Himalayan brown bears as the latter is extremely rare.
"Common in Kashmir, that the brown bear follows the black one at a respectful distance when the last one goes on a faraging expedition towards the nuttrees, and picks up the nuts which the black bear drops accidentally"
Fascinating. The Bear could’ve been almost 1.5-2 times the size of the Snow Leopard and the Snow Leopard still killed it. What an amazing predator.
And I wasn’t aware of the size of Himalayan Brown Bears but it seems they are much smaller than the Russian and North American Brown Bears.
Bengal Tigers would certainly consider them prey.
4:25 to 4:60. The brown bear in Deosai National Park has the lowest birth rate among brown bears. They reach sexual maturity at eight at the cub stays with the mother for up to five years. Nevertheless as you said, it is still impressive that a snow leopard would kill one even though it is just 2 years old. Tigers can potentially enter the Himalayan brown bear's territory.
Here is the red bear's home range:
Code:
The Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is a subspecies of the brown bear and the distribution is restricted to higher altitudes across north-western and central Himalayas including India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, west China, Tibet and Nepal.
(06-21-2022, 08:28 PM)Ashutosh Wrote: @GreenGrolar Himalayan Brown Bears are not THAT small. They weigh close to 200 kilos in winters (some males weigh more just before hibernation). On average, Himalayan Brown Bears match upto Himalayan Black Bear in size and weight. They are very timid and shy animals who like to avoid conflict.
Even a couple of Tibetan foxes can shoo Himalayan Brown Bear away from a carcass. They are omnivores but most of their diet is vegetarian.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Size comparison between Baloo and a Himalayan black bear. The red bear looks timid as you said.
06-23-2022, 05:48 PM( This post was last modified: 06-23-2022, 05:49 PM by GreenGrolar )
Rare Tigers Found High in the Himalayas
*This image is copyright of its original author
A male Bengal Tiger, filmed by a BBC crew using a remote camera trap in the Himalayas of Bhutan, at an altitude of over 4,000 meters.BBC
BBC camera crews have discovered a rare population of tigers living high in the Himalayas.
Video footage captured by dozens of cameras with motion sensors, which had been left in the mountains of Bhutan, showed the animals - usually found in jungle habitats - at altitudes above 13,000 feet.
"These are the highest living tigers in the world," said BBC cameraman Gordon Buchanan.
The footage was obtained by the BBC's Natural History Unit for the series, "Lost Land of the Tiger," which debuts on British television this week. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rare-tigers-found-high-in-the-himalayas/
Still no record of them crossing path with the Himalayan brown bear just yet. Thy probably have a similar relationship with the jaguar and spectacled bear.
(06-21-2022, 04:41 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: Snow leopard kill Himalayan brown bear
"A two-year old brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) was killed and partially eaten by a snow leopard in Kazahkstan, but this must be quite unusual" (Heptner and Sludskii 1992)
There is an account where a snow leopard killed a two year old Himalayan brown bear but that is the only interaction I can find.
The Himalayan brown bear is the only brown bear subspecies that gets dominated by a black bear. Therefore, I am certain the tiger will consider even a male Himalayan brown bear as prey should they come across each other. An account:
Also it is going to be extremely hard to see interactions between tigers and Himalayan brown bears as the latter is extremely rare.
"Common in Kashmir, that the brown bear follows the black one at a respectful distance when the last one goes on a faraging expedition towards the nuttrees, and picks up the nuts which the black bear drops accidentally"
Fascinating. The Bear could’ve been almost 1.5-2 times the size of the Snow Leopard and the Snow Leopard still killed it. What an amazing predator.
And I wasn’t aware of the size of Himalayan Brown Bears but it seems they are much smaller than the Russian and North American Brown Bears.
Bengal Tigers would certainly consider them prey.
4:25 to 4:60. The brown bear in Deosai National Park has the lowest birth rate among brown bears. They reach sexual maturity at eight at the cub stays with the mother for up to five years. Nevertheless as you said, it is still impressive that a snow leopard would kill one even though it is just 2 years old. Tigers can potentially enter the Himalayan brown bear's territory.
Here is the red bear's home range:
Code:
The Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is a subspecies of the brown bear and the distribution is restricted to higher altitudes across north-western and central Himalayas including India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, west China, Tibet and Nepal.
https://wildlifesos.org/our-work/bear/
Yes, I do realise that. By the way, do you have anything regarding their weight of Himalayan Brown Bears??
I have not been able to find anything reliable on this yet, only random articles stating anywhere between 160-250kg but those are obviously just some random guesses.
06-24-2022, 04:24 PM( This post was last modified: 06-24-2022, 04:26 PM by GreenGrolar )
(06-23-2022, 05:50 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-23-2022, 05:32 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote:
(06-21-2022, 05:13 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-21-2022, 04:41 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: Snow leopard kill Himalayan brown bear
"A two-year old brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) was killed and partially eaten by a snow leopard in Kazahkstan, but this must be quite unusual" (Heptner and Sludskii 1992)
There is an account where a snow leopard killed a two year old Himalayan brown bear but that is the only interaction I can find.
The Himalayan brown bear is the only brown bear subspecies that gets dominated by a black bear. Therefore, I am certain the tiger will consider even a male Himalayan brown bear as prey should they come across each other. An account:
Also it is going to be extremely hard to see interactions between tigers and Himalayan brown bears as the latter is extremely rare.
"Common in Kashmir, that the brown bear follows the black one at a respectful distance when the last one goes on a faraging expedition towards the nuttrees, and picks up the nuts which the black bear drops accidentally"
Fascinating. The Bear could’ve been almost 1.5-2 times the size of the Snow Leopard and the Snow Leopard still killed it. What an amazing predator.
And I wasn’t aware of the size of Himalayan Brown Bears but it seems they are much smaller than the Russian and North American Brown Bears.
Bengal Tigers would certainly consider them prey.
4:25 to 4:60. The brown bear in Deosai National Park has the lowest birth rate among brown bears. They reach sexual maturity at eight at the cub stays with the mother for up to five years. Nevertheless as you said, it is still impressive that a snow leopard would kill one even though it is just 2 years old. Tigers can potentially enter the Himalayan brown bear's territory.
Here is the red bear's home range:
Code:
The Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is a subspecies of the brown bear and the distribution is restricted to higher altitudes across north-western and central Himalayas including India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, west China, Tibet and Nepal.
https://wildlifesos.org/our-work/bear/
Yes, I do realise that. By the way, do you have anything regarding their weight of Himalayan Brown Bears??
I have not been able to find anything reliable on this yet, only random articles stating anywhere between 160-250kg but those are obviously just some random guesses.
Here is one:
Code:
Size: Males – 5 ft to 7 ft 3 in (1.5-2.2 m); Females – 4 ft 6 in to 6 ft (1.37m-1.83 m)
Weight: Males – 298 lb (135 kg); Females – 150 lb (70 kg)
Color: Reddish-brown to sandy
They have thick reddish-brown fur and males are larger than females, with an average length of 1.9m and weight of 135kg, in comparison to the female averages of 1.6m and 70kg. They live at high altitudes - often above the tree line - and spend the summer months foraging, hunting and mating. The winter months are spent hibernating.
Since a female Himalayan brown bear only averages 70 kgs, it is not a surprise than a snow leopard can kill a 2 year old. The snow leopard is my favourite big cat by the way :). The male seems to be close to the weight of a sloth bear on average.
I personally wish there would be more info on this brown bear subspecies.
Edit: I found one more:
Code:
Himalayan brown bear (Horsfield 1826) - Ursus arctos isabellinus
Order: Carnivora
Family: Ursidae
Subfamily: Ursinae
Genus: Ursus
Size: 1.30 to 2.20 m
Weight: 70 to 160 kg
Life span: 20 to 30 years
(06-21-2022, 04:41 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: Snow leopard kill Himalayan brown bear
"A two-year old brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) was killed and partially eaten by a snow leopard in Kazahkstan, but this must be quite unusual" (Heptner and Sludskii 1992)
There is an account where a snow leopard killed a two year old Himalayan brown bear but that is the only interaction I can find.
The Himalayan brown bear is the only brown bear subspecies that gets dominated by a black bear. Therefore, I am certain the tiger will consider even a male Himalayan brown bear as prey should they come across each other. An account:
Also it is going to be extremely hard to see interactions between tigers and Himalayan brown bears as the latter is extremely rare.
"Common in Kashmir, that the brown bear follows the black one at a respectful distance when the last one goes on a faraging expedition towards the nuttrees, and picks up the nuts which the black bear drops accidentally"
Fascinating. The Bear could’ve been almost 1.5-2 times the size of the Snow Leopard and the Snow Leopard still killed it. What an amazing predator.
And I wasn’t aware of the size of Himalayan Brown Bears but it seems they are much smaller than the Russian and North American Brown Bears.
Bengal Tigers would certainly consider them prey.
4:25 to 4:60. The brown bear in Deosai National Park has the lowest birth rate among brown bears. They reach sexual maturity at eight at the cub stays with the mother for up to five years. Nevertheless as you said, it is still impressive that a snow leopard would kill one even though it is just 2 years old. Tigers can potentially enter the Himalayan brown bear's territory.
Here is the red bear's home range:
Code:
The Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos isabellinus) is a subspecies of the brown bear and the distribution is restricted to higher altitudes across north-western and central Himalayas including India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, west China, Tibet and Nepal.
https://wildlifesos.org/our-work/bear/
Yes, I do realise that. By the way, do you have anything regarding their weight of Himalayan Brown Bears??
I have not been able to find anything reliable on this yet, only random articles stating anywhere between 160-250kg but those are obviously just some random guesses.
Here is one:
Code:
Size: Males – 5 ft to 7 ft 3 in (1.5-2.2 m); Females – 4 ft 6 in to 6 ft (1.37m-1.83 m)
Weight: Males – 298 lb (135 kg); Females – 150 lb (70 kg)
Color: Reddish-brown to sandy
They have thick reddish-brown fur and males are larger than females, with an average length of 1.9m and weight of 135kg, in comparison to the female averages of 1.6m and 70kg. They live at high altitudes - often above the tree line - and spend the summer months foraging, hunting and mating. The winter months are spent hibernating.
Since a female Himalayan brown bear only averages 70 kgs, it is not a surprise than a snow leopard can kill a 2 year old. The snow leopard is my favourite big cat by the way :). The male seems to be close to the weight of a sloth bear on average.
I personally wish there would be more info on this brown bear subspecies.
I have also seen these random articles but none of them are reliable. I highly doubt that females are just 70kg, there is no good source to confirm it.
The problem with these articles is that they show no reliable source to back their information so that information is most likely inaccurate.
We finally have the confirmation for the Western most extent of tigers in the Himalayas. Camera traps reveal presence of a tiger in Himachal Pradesh in Simbalbara National Park which comes under Shimla Wildlife division:
The tiger is possibly "passing through". Simbalbara is only 2,700 hectares...he may not remain there, but may use the area as the center of his larger territory. A photograph that demonstrates the unpredictable nature of the feline in seeking new habitats (refuges) within environments impacted by humans, and notably challenging for its dietary maintenance, with very low temperatures, among several other adaptive challenges.
Its arrival needs to be monitored and people must be apprehensive. It is always difficult to celebrate similar news, as there is a whole context to be measured, and individuals are not populations. These wanderers serve to draw attention to larger ecological issues, such as the more imminent need to increase available habitat for tigers. Increase of tigers without increase of habitat is only source of imminent conflicts.
If anyone here is familiar with the region, could they provide us with insights into their origin, movement, surrounding environment, historical context of the tiger in the area... It's always good to know a little more about the implications previous and beyond of your arrival.
02-26-2023, 11:58 AM( This post was last modified: 02-27-2023, 09:59 AM by Ashutosh )
We have some more information on the male seen on post #172. He is a 6 year old male from Rajaji National Park and has covered around 130 kilometres to get to Himachal Pradesh. He was seen moving out of Rajaji in November and since then no livestock or humans have been attacked.
Some wildlife corridors still exist in this area with a sustainable prey population which is a small consolation. He looks healthy enough. Will most likely turn back in search of a mate.
Tigers of the High Himalayas
