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Tiger Predation
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Tiger with a bull gaur kill:
 *This image is copyright of its original author
@peter
Quote:Indian tigers, apart from specialists involved in large herbivores (wild buffalo and gaur), are mainly deer hunters (cheetal and sambar). I'm not trying to start a debate, so don't take my words the wrong way, or take this personal, but this statement is clearly incorrect. Tigers preying on large herbivores like gaur and wild buffaloes has nothing to do with individual "specialists". Tigers as a species are big game hunters. Numerous studies on tiger predatory behaviour ( Seidenstecker, Karanth, Schaller, Sunquist etc ) and habits consistently show that tigers always go after the largest prey animals. i.e. Gaur, Banteng and wild buffalo, wherever their abundant. - General tiger predatory behaviour. Even the small Javan tigers weighing only 100-140 kg regularly preyed on banteng and killed huge banteng bulls weighing 800 - 825 kg. ( Seidenstecker ) The only reason why most tigers are "mainly deer hunters" is because majority of tiger reserves are devoid of large herbivores like gaur and wild buffalo, and in some reserves the populations of these bovines are very low making them insignificant, so tigers then have to settle for smaller prey like deer and wild boar. But wherever large herbivores like gaur and wild buffalo are abundant, tigers ( Bengal and Indo-chinese tigers ) routinely hunt and kill the adults of these wild bovines. I have the sources and evidence if you want to see it? @tigerluver I have 4 PM messages but I can't read them because I don't have access to them. Why is this?  (06-07-2021, 02:55 AM)Apex Titan Wrote: @peter From the bottom up. The reason you can't read PM's is you're on the list. You can contact Rishi to fix the problem, provided you promise to quit making your point in the way above. I'm referring to using extra black and interacting by using statements only. You're not dealing with dogs, morons, half-wits and rookies. This way of interacting can only result in a yes-no/black-white/agreed-disagreed type of communication. The most likely outcome of interacting in this way is animosity. We don't want that over here and you know. When interacting, you use arguments, logic, reason and good information. Example. If you would have said wild tigers today hunt small animals only because of a lack of large prey animals, I would have agreed immediately. If you, however, dismiss research out of hand (I'm referring to the fact that tigers, as a result of 'empty' forests and poaching, often have no option but to hunt smaller prey animals in quite many regions in southeast Asia) and add a serious poster and co-owner of a forum only watches pics to get to an opinion, you can expect trouble, if not an outright ban. Something else. The Amur tiger thread has reopened. Our member 'Nyers' said he succeeded in contacting Alexander Batalov. He added he's prepared to translate questions into Russian and send them to Batalov. Quite an opportunity for a member referring to Batalov all the time to get to general conclusions on tigers and bears in the Russian Far East, I'd say. There's a hidden message in the last sentence. Did you see it? Yes, I was referring to you moving from specific to general in tigers and bears. Avoid stepping into the same pitfall as those who said Siberian tigers are very much 'overrated' and those who stated bears are 'too risky' to attack. I'm not referring to posters, but to biologists who have produced quite a few peer-reviewed documents. The advice is to sell your preference and to focus on good info and, in particular, sound reasoning. If you go for fundamentalism and 'educating' those who (seem to) disagree, chances are you'll end up swimming in circles and talking to yourself. You got extra credit for finding good info on tigers and bears in the Russian Far East, but remember this already is the second time you was offered good advice on how to interact on a public forum. Meaning the credit was spent. From now on, you're on your own. Good luck.  (06-07-2021, 02:55 AM)Apex Titan Wrote: I have the sources and evidence if you want to see it? (06-09-2021, 06:59 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: Since your interested ( like me ) in the topic of tigers and bears in the Russian far east, I can post all info ( Authentic and reliable ) if you wanna see? Since you're new, here's some guidance... Start with that info & stop with the source. Other people can make their own minds on the subject. Share the info, keep the opinion. (06-09-2021, 06:59 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:(06-09-2021, 02:40 PM)peter Wrote:(06-07-2021, 02:55 AM)Apex Titan Wrote: @peter I know you're (one of) the first who took Batalov's observation and conclusion seriously. I also know you're the one who first posted about it. Finally, I know you found more interesting information on tigers and bears in the Russian Far East. All of this, as I said before, resulted in extra points. I also acknowledge your perseverance was instrumental in moving the info on 'Rachel', 'Ochkarik' and 'Chlamida' to a forum (Carnivora) and getting it (largely) accepted. You most certainly developed over the years (referring to your last ban some years ago) and qualified for a compliment. The flipside of perseverance is it's close to, or can result in, fanaticism. If you succeed in avoiding it, chances are it will result in an attitude (referring to 'educating' or 'lecturing' others, even those I would consider as informed). Yes, I was referring to your post on tigers hunting smallish animals because of a lack of large prey animals in many reserves in southeast Asia. Meaning I took your words in the right way. You're off the watchlist and have permission to post in the tiger extinction thread, provided you take the advice offered seriously. In order to help out, I, when necessary, will edit your first contributions. I agree the tiger extinction thread is long, but the advantage is it has a lot of views. An excellent platform to discuss something of interest, that is. I'm working on an index, but this will take a lot of time. Because of the number of views (and the intention of the thread), posting in the extinction thread is different from posting in most other threads. I don't mind an opinion here and there, but your job is to post good info. Reliable information about tigers and bears in the Russian Far East, I mean. Your contributions should enable those interested to get to an opinion themselves. For this reason, lay-out and structure are important. You can use ITALICS, paint and other tools, provided you do so to improve the readability of your contribution. What I'm saying is you have to transform into a kind of journalist. A poster can post opinions, but a jounalist has to present good information. Sensationalism and preference are out, I mean. As to tigers and bears. In the period I interviewed trainers and visited facilities, I noticed captive tigers and bears, apart from a few exceptions, didn't get along anywhere. The animosity in deeply engrained in both species. For this reason, most trainers kept them apart. Amur tigers in particular seem to dislike brown bears quite a bit, if not to say they're prepared to engage them at all times. And 'them' includes large male brown bears ranging between 600-800 pounds. The only times I saw captive Amur tigers really enraged was when the facility (or circus) in which they lived had a male brown bear poking their tree. I never saw anything close in captive lions and captive (Amur) tigers. Although not seldom (almost) twice the weight of an adult male Amur tiger, male brown bears were wary of them. Based on what I heard from those who had seen interactions between both, I wasn't surprised to learn wild male Amur tigers are prepared to engage male brown bears in the Russian Far East. I also think the outcome of a fight isn't as one-sided as many posters seem to think. I, however, don't think male Amur tigers, apart from the occasional exception, hunt adult male brown bears. They are, I think, foremost competitors. In some seasons (and districts), tigers avoid large brown bears. In others, it could be the other way round. My proposal is to keep that in mind when you post about them. One thing I want to avoid at all costs is firm statements. I read just about everything available published by those who (should) know and concluded even experienced hunters and biologists struggle to avoid opinions at times. I'm referring to those who said Amur tigers, sizewise, are much 'overrated', those who concluded bears are 'too risky' to hunt and those who offered firm opinions on (the outcome of) interactions near kill-sites. What I read, suggests the outcome of interactions between adult Amur tigers and adult Ussuri brown bears, not including bears of exceptional size, depends. On individuality, circumstances and, perhaps above all, chance. But there no doubt is more to it and our job is to find good info in order to lift the veil. Remember to keep your distance. The moment you decide for a clear conclusion, you're closing the door. (06-10-2021, 10:30 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: @peter I talked to Sanjay and Rishi. Did you read the last post of 'Nyers' in the Amur Tiger thread? He succeeded in contacting Batalov and is prepared to translate questions of those interested into Russian. I expect you to use this unique opportunity, as it will enable you to be sure of everything you'll write on tigress 'Rachel', tiger 'Ochkarik' and brown bear 'Chlamid'. This is needed to get to reliable information on the incident you want to discuss in the tiger extinction thread, as Batalov is the source. (06-10-2021, 10:30 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: @peter Post something else for a few days. Once you're out of the initial period then you can access your PMs. Extinction threads are invitw only, not everyone can post there. (06-11-2021, 04:55 AM)peter Wrote:(06-10-2021, 10:30 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: @peter Yes, I did read 'Nyers' last post in the Amur tiger thread, and was going to ask him a question to send to Batalov, but the poster 'Maritimus77' beat me to it. So there's no point of me asking the same question. Hopefully, Batalov will reply.
Tigress kills a large male wild boar:
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