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The Sundarban Tiger
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Sunderban tigers
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Upamanyu Roy
The Giant from Mangroves -Panthera Tigris - Sunderbans - January 2017.  *This image is copyright of its original author
Few more I collected from multiple sources (which i don't remember)..
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This tiger rishi posted seems to be the ultimate specimen. Stocky robust, huge forearms, big head. Surely he must be byproduct of breeding of sunderban tiger and 250kg + tiger. Hence the ultimate features.
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(01-31-2017, 10:19 AM)parvez Wrote: This tiger rishi posted seems to be the ultimate specimen. Stocky robust, huge forearms, big head. Surely he must be byproduct of breeding of sunderban tiger and 250kg + tiger. Hence the ultimate features.Those Sundarban tiger pics. are the largest of specimens.. We have one here in Kolkata zoo (captured man-eater  ) & he is smaller than both d mainland tigresses in his adjoining cages...So, I for one don't think their small size is a myth!!!Dey even look different.. (& live 500kms apart, So can't mate) Surely, this guy was born of a source population somewhere in Bhutan, roaming the near-tigerless forests of North Bengal in search of females.. Happens all the time, the 2006 cencus identified 12 males & 4 females here...but FEAR NOT for i have good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  . . Tiger relocation move for Buxa - NTCA gives nod to bring big cats from other forests, says minister Our Correspondent  *This image is copyright of its original author Buxa: How many big cats?
Alipurduar, Jan. 6: The National Tiger Conservation Authority has approved a proposal to bring in tigers from other forests in the country and release them in Buxa at a time the number of big cats is declining in the reserve in north Bengal, state forest minister Binoy Barman has said. In 2005, the number of tigers in Sariska Tiger Reserve came down to zero. A similar relocation project was taken up and big cats were brought into the forest from other places. "Now, the number of tigers in Sariska is 11," a forest official said. In Bengal, the state forest department had sent a proposal to the NTCA a couple of months ago stating that tigers could be relocated to Buxa and a 200sqkm area had been identified to develop a prey base for the predators. "We believe that there are tigers in the BTR but the number has come down. According to experts' advice, we have decided to restock tigers. We have already received the approval of the NTCA. Tigers will be brought in from other forests. Everything will be done according to the NTCA's instructions," said Barman. In 2012 and 2013, scat samples from Buxa were sent to the Centre of Cellular and Molecular Biology in Hyderabad and the reports said there were at least 12 tigers in the forest. But last year, according to a report published by the NTCA, there are only three big cats in north Bengal (Buxa is the only forest that boasts tigers in the region). "This time, we are sending 45 scat samples to the Wild Life Institute of India for DNA analysis. We are yet to receive their report on the 54 scat samples that were sent last year. We have set up 100 pairs of automatic trap cameras in sensitive locations but we are yet to receive any direct evidence of tigers in Buxa," said Buxa field director Ujwal Ghosh. Last year, the NTCA has asked the state forest department for an explanation on why the status of a "tiger reserve" should not be withdrawn from Buxa and why it should not stop funding tiger projects in the forest prompting foresters to increase the number of camera traps to capture images of tigers. The state forest department also submitted a Tiger Conservation Plan to the NTCA mentioning that at least 15 villages had to be shifted out of the core area of the forest to increase the area where the animals could breed. According to a forest officer, an area of almost 200sqkm has been identified on the eastern side of Jayanti road in Buxa where a grassland would be developed for herbivorous animals - a pray base for tigers. . . OH, WAIT..THERE'S MORE!!! . . NTCA gives nod to West Bengal to get three new tigers at Jaldapara National Park Since Jaldapara National Park and Buxa Tiger Reserve also come under the same landscape, the tigers will be brought from a forest in Assam. Written by Aniruddha Ghosal | Kolkata | Updated: January 4, 2017 4:48 am  *This image is copyright of its original author The approval to get tigers was received last year. (Archive photo)The state forest department’s proposal to bring in three new tigers to the Jaldapara National Park as part of a programme to increase the animal’s population in the area has got a green signal from the National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA). The forest department had sent the proposal to NTCA last year and got permission in December, officials said. In October, the body had given a similar approval to the Buxa Tiger Reserve, which is adjacent to the Jaldapara forest. While Buxa hasn’t seen a tiger in almost 10 years, Jaldapara — once known for its rhinoceros, elephant and tiger population — has also seen a loss of wildlife due to habitat loss and poaching. Officials, however, remained hopeful that they would be able to reverse the situation with the new arrivals — one male and two females tigers. “Initially, the tigers will be kept in an enclosure and deer would be released inside it to create a prey base. Once the tigers adjust to the conditions in Jaldapara and BTR, we will think of releasing them in the wild,” said an official. According to an NTCA report published last year, there are two tigers in the North Bengal landscape, which includes Mahananda Wildlife Sanctuary, Gorumara National Park, Champramari Wildlife Sanctuary. Since Jaldapara National Park and Buxa Tiger Reserve also come under the same landscape, the tigers will be brought from a forest in Assam. Last year, after official estimates maintained that there had been a 30 per cent increase in the wild tiger population, many conservationists had raised concerns over the government’s ability to manage the increased number of tigers. Tiger density, officials explained, had in some reserves surpassed their carrying capacity. “The idea is that a number of tigers needed to be dispersed since they were often found living outside the reserves, leading to cases of conflict with people and also becoming easy targets for poachers,” said an official. Till last year, the government did not have a strategy to look beyond tiger reserves and manage the big cats at a landscape level. But now, the NTCA has come up with a set of guidelines to rehabilitate tigers that are “dispersing” from densely populated source forests and bring them to suitable forests with low or no tiger density. On March 18 last year, the NTCA had released a “Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for rehabilitation of tigers from source areas at the landscape level” and presented it to chief wildlife wardens of tiger-range states and field directors of tiger reserves. The SOP identifies population clusters with surplus tigers across the country and suggests areas where they can be relocated, the procedure of which has also been explained.
@Rishi there must be surely corridors in between those 500 kms gap. There tigers must be surely breeding. Trust me that tiger surely has part sunderban gene. That's why he is robust and stocky with proportionately huge forearms. Oh you are trying to say that he has assam tiger genes? That may also be right. But my first preference is it has sunderban genes. Bhutan tigers are big but not as robust as these two groups. So my guess is No.
(01-31-2017, 08:33 PM)parvez Wrote: @Rishi there must be surely corridors in between those 500 kms gap. There tigers must be surely breeding. Trust me that tiger surely has part sunderban gene. That's why he is robust and stocky with proportionately huge forearms. Oh you are trying to say that he has assam tiger genes? That may also be right. But my first preference is it has sunderban genes. Bhutan tigers are big but not as robust as these two groups. So my guess is No.   Dude i live in Kolkata (DAT huge red blot on map) <50 miles away from Sundarban (marked 4 on map)!!!Neora Valley is the northernmost forest patch (marked 1 on map)...  *This image is copyright of its original author Now lemme put in a population density map of FAO (the green square, U can see the boundary to relate)..  *This image is copyright of its original author If U read the news articles in my last post, u'll see NTCA authorised tiger relocation from Assam to Jaldapara (marked 3 on map) & Buxa Tiger Reserve (marked 4 on map)..Cuz they r part of d SAME North-East India Tiger population!! U can go see from Assam tigers discussion dat tigers of Manas (marked 5 on map) are physically atleast as impressive as the Kaziranga dweller that fascinates everyone in dis forum.. Now, these forests r fragmented in India, but adjoining Bhutan has continous Forest tracks & acts as corridors as well as local population source... ALL THESE TIGERS ARE SIMILAR IN SIZE & STATURE, BEING PART OF A CONTAGIOUS GENE-POOL!!! There is no notable difference between them..we r talking two sides of a border, not Terai & Kalakkad-Mundanthurai 
@Rishi Bhutan tiger in the sense I thought from other areas excluding manas. There is completely different population there. They are enigma as Peter said to me. Only the manas group should be resembling assam tigers. Anyways you may be right. But I believe scientific research should be carried out for perfect results.
(02-01-2017, 07:58 AM)parvez Wrote: @Rishi Bhutan tiger in the sense I thought from other areas excluding manas. There is completely different population there. They are enigma as Peter said to me. Only the manas group should be resembling assam tigers. Anyways you may be right. But I believe scientific research should be carried out for perfect results. "There is completely different population there" . They live in adjoining forests..a few miles away from each other, with intact corridors ensuring genetic exchange!!! At Northern higher altitudes, where it snows in winter, the stockier (thus low surface area) specimens might get a SLIIIIIGGHT advantage in absence of Siberian like fur. By natural selection that could be a minor regional adaptation at best..  Speaking of that, lemme bring the discussion back to Sundarbans, they are adapted to saline swamps & even look different!!! Check these random different males out..  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author If U have been obsessing over 'em long enough, one can tell them from mainland specimens by looking!!!
Alright man I lost for now. But unless scientific research is conducted it is difficult to come to a conclusion. We can only wait till then.
(02-01-2017, 11:50 AM)parvez Wrote: Alright man I lost for now. But unless scientific research is conducted it is difficult to come to a conclusion. We can only wait till then. How do u win or lose on a point like this..?? I merely proposed a case & irrespective of what we conclude or believe, the facts will remain the same.. Maybe the whole "subspecies" system is inadequate to understand the subtlety genetic diversity.. The Bhutan tigers might be UNIQUE like d Sundarbans ones, inspite of not being a different subspecies..Malayan tigers might be such a variation of Indo-Chinese tigers, just to a higher enough degree to be declared one!!! (02-01-2017, 02:00 PM)parvez Wrote: Well you said Bhutan tigers and assam tigers are same. Now you say Bhutan tigers are unique. What is your final conclusion? Are assam tigers too unique? "Well you said Bhutan tigers and assam tigers are same. Now you say Bhutan tigers are unique." I said they are not "completely different population" & MAYBE they shoow a minor regional adaptation, that no other tiger posesses, thus making them....UNIQUE. Just like the Sundarbans cats, who u can see, look a lot different but AREN'T genetically (as per recent studies, u want link..??) . "Are assam tigers too unique?  lol"Yes they are.. lol  Northeast tiger genes unique, says study Roopak Goswami Guwahati, Feb. 7: The tiger population of the Northeast is genetically different from the rest of the country, an official tiger report has revealed for the first time.  *This image is copyright of its original author A Royal Bengal Tiger at Kaziranga. (File picture) The revelation was made in the detailed report of Status of the Tigers, Co-predators and Prey in India brought out by Wildlife Institute of India and National Tiger Conservation Authority that for the first time has dealt with genetic structure of tigers in the country to ensure effective conservation efforts. There are mainly two large population clusters of tigers in the country - the northeastern population and population of the rest of the country. "The tiger population in the Northeast represents a unique cluster when compared to those from the rest of the country. An interesting step would be to investigate the admixture of genetic material between these and the Indo-Chinese tigers ( Panthera tigris corbetti) found in the border areas of the northeastern states," the report said. Senior professor at the Wildlife Institute of India and one of the authors of the report, Yadvendradev Jhala, said: "Tigers from the Northeast India are distinctly different in their genetic composition. This is likely as the Northeast tiger population probably forms a zone where there has been historic gene flow from Myanmar." "This is the route tigers took to enter India and this process has been continuous, resulting in mixing of genes of tigers from Southeast Asia and India. It creates a different and distinct composition of gene frequencies in the region," he added. Wildlife biologist with NGO Aaranyak, Firoz Ahmed, said: "The tigers of the Northeast have more chances to share its genes with the Southeast Asian tigers of Myanmar, Thailand and South China because of its habitat connectivity in the trans-boundary areas. Therefore, the Indo-Chinese sub-species and the tiger population of the Northeast India are likely to be very similar. Further genetic study may reveal this." "The tiger population of the Northeast is significant for conservation as they may work as a stepping stone to exchange genes between the Royal Bengal tiger and Indo-Chinese tiger. This will help gene pool preservation within the tiger species," he added. The report said the Northeast, Dibang and Namdapha formed one population cluster, while Manas, Kaziranga, Nameri and Buxa formed a second cluster. Quantifying gene flow in tiger populations was also crucial to the understanding of how ancestry, dispersal and isolation operate in maintaining metapopulations, the report said. A metapopulation consists of a group of separated populations of the same species which interact at some level. The authorities also carried out non-invasive genetic sampling where tiger populations could not be assessed by camera trap because of logistic constraints like extremely low density. Scats collected in each landscape, across the country. Under non-invasive genetic sampling , 12 tigers were found in Namdapha, Dibang and Dampa reserves in the Northeast, respectively. Overall, in the northeastern hills and Brahmaputra landscape, Kaziranga-Karbi Anglong-Pakke-Nameri-Orang is the largest source (163 tigers) and should be managed as a single metapopulation. Enhanced protection in the region will help build prey and subsequently tiger population in the long-term, the report suggested. Manas-Buxa, along with areas of Bhutan landscape, had potential to sustain higher number of tigers and were currently below their carrying capacity. Dibang and Namdapha show good promise for tiger and biodiversity conservation but needed more conservation investment, the report added.
That is the entire northeast genes are unique. I posted that article weeks back. I was asking particularly about assam tigers as you said they are the same as bhutan tigers. So, just like bhutan tigers are they unique too? was my question. Anyways let us stop this off topic discussion and continue with sunderban tiger discussion.
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