WildFact
›
Information Section
›
Terrestrial Wild Animals
›
Wild Cats
›
Lion
The size of the Barbary lion
The size of the Barbary lion
|
The size of the Barbary lion
|
I heard that the Ethiopian lion is very closely related with the Barbary lion, is that true?
Could the northeast population of the Sub-Saharan lion intermix with the Barbary lion? 
It seems that, somehow, the desert avoided the expansion of the East African lions to the north, via the Nile River. Now, we most take in count also the Egyptians, which were a true barrier for any animal expansion.
Check this map from Dubach et al., (2013):  *This image is copyright of its original author It seems that it was a clear separation between the north African lions and those of Ethiopia. Older studies claimed that these lions were also Barbary (northern) specimens, but this study take a view on it and concluded that , in fact, they are still among the East African clade.
About 100kya, the Asian lion had evolved from the ancient African lion.
It seems that during 100kya, many things changed tremendously, and the new emerged geographical barrier had split Panthera leo into two distinct populations. Were the Egyptian pyramids the artificial barriers for the late lion expansion?
Not the pyramids, but the human population itself.
Take in count that when humans create a settlement, animals are extirpated or expelled of the area. During those 100,000 years, Africa suffered many climatic changes, with the expansion of the Sahara and the nearly disappearance of the deep green jungles, in favor of the large open savannah habitat. It is interesting that the Sub-Saharan African lions dominated all the African continent, but when the desert began its expansion, all the population of central and north Africa was exterminated and only survived those under this new area. Then, the climate favored the creation of the Mediterranean habitat and a new wave of Asian lions invaded Africa from the north, running all the Mediterranean region and from Morocco, they began to live in all the Atlantic coast and ended with the recolonization of Central Africa, surrounding the great desert. That is why there are two different lion subspecies/groups in Africa.
It is intriguing that the Sub-Saharan lions were the original natives in North Africa and West Africa, while the Asian lions were the newcomers.
I guess before the expansion of the desert, the Asian lions might be born from a small group of the East African lions that wandering around the coast of the Red Sea, and they might later fill the ecosystem vacuum after the extinction of the paleo population of the Sub-Saharan lions in the Northwest Africa.
In fact, lions and leopards evolved from Africa (jaguars in Europe, but they also came from a primitive lion-like animal), so the first pure lions expanded trough all the continent and invaded the middle east, south of Europe and followed the way up to India, inhabiting all the dry and desert areas. Like you say, Asian lions have a definitive separation about 100,000 years ago, and since then, they evolved in they own way. However new studies suggest that this divergence could be much earlier.
A recent document of Barnett and his team in 2014 propose that the arrival of Asian lions could be more complicated that previously established. I most read the document first and latter I will post my appreciation. For the moment, I have based my ideas in Dubach et al. (2013).
Likewise, the Asian lions could be made up by several different waves of immigrations from different periods.
Maybe the Asian lions that we have seen today is the neo population, and there could have an already extinct paleo population as well.
Exactly, that could be very possible. However, we most take in count to the hypothesis of Valmik Thapar, that lions in India are introduced by humans, which could suggest that lions reached just up to the western part of Afghanistan and did not pass the desert areas between Pakistan and India. But that is another theme.
Well, here I attach the document about the lion evolution from Barnett et al. (2014), for more information. 
I was fortunate enough to live in Morocco between 1978 and 1981 where my father taught at the university and I had the chance to frequently visit the zoos at Ain Diab in Casablanca and Tamara Zoo near Rabat, Ain Diab housed a magnificent male from Atlas origin from his father and Senegalese origin from his mother, he was a large and beautiful lion with clear eyes and a magnificent mane covering most of his under body, if memory still serves me after almost 35 years he was named Sultan.
Tamara zoo housed the descendants of the Atlas caught royal lions of 1941, the last wild caught lions in Morocco , this collection had more males than females as in customary gifts to royalty , and when king Mohamad V died his son King Hassan II moved the lions from the palace menagerie to Rabat zoo where they mated them with west African lionesses ( a lucky choice since these ended up being their closest African relatives ) . I saw these descendants beautiful lions , great luxurious dark manes extending under the belly, clear iris, large heads, heavy body, but shorter limbs but overall not necessarily larger than other lions ...possibly just Gerard s speculation. If reintroducing them is attempted a reserved area south of the Atlas Mountains will be ideal , historic prey of wild boar, Barbary stag, Dorcas gazelle,aoudad, and possibly addax and scimitar antelope should be restored to sufficient levels and protected. Personally I do not think the Moroccan authorities are interested anymore in reintroducing these lions to Morocco .
Welcome @Dr Panthera, great to see you here.
Thanks for this story, it would be incredible to see those lions "in the flesh". Greetings. 
Guate,
I saw a post of yours on another animals site that the Barbary lion max weight was 440 pounds with the possibility of some getting to over 500 pounds. I don't think the Barbary even got to over 500 pounds. I think the Barbary lion maxed out at 440 pounds with some getting to over 475 pounds, this is my opinion. 
I think Barbary Lions maxed out at 600-pounds, slightly smaller than most modern African Lions? The mane makes them look quite larger than they are, much like ancient Asiatic Lions.
Barbary and Asiatic lions are same the only difference is excess mane as they lives in little colder regions vs Indian/Asian lions.
 I think Asiatic lions will grow bigger if their numbers,prey is increased. Asiatic in Helsinki-Finland  *This image is copyright of its original author In UK  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Few things i noticed regarding Asiatic they are tolerant towards humans and frequently quarrel each other. In olden days Asiatic/Barbary lions with big black mane look bigger than tigers live near open human settlements, little tolerance towards humans unlike Leopards and Tigers,full confidence walk with pride/gang unlike cunning Tigers and Leopards ...... no doubt humans worshiped them in all ancient cultures. 
Polar,
I don't think Barbary's maxed at 600 pounds NO WAY. The Barbary's weight averaged 395-440 with SOME maxing out at WELL OVER 475 pounds. The Asiatic lion of Palestine weight was pretty much the same as today in the Gir forest 348-418 pounds with an OCCASSIONAL Asiatic lion weighing WELL OVER 475 pounds. Basically when you see a Asiatic lion you pretty much have seen a Barbary lion, only difference is the Asiatic lion of Palestine lived in a hotter climate than the Barbary lion, who dwelt in a cold climate, and the Barbary weighed OVER 475 more often than a Asiatic lion
Some ideas on the subject:
Removing genetic origin and morphological examinations (both well documented and explained in previous posts), they scientifically demonstrated that the Barbary Lions did not possess the properties thus assigned. Only Berber myth and local Berber folklore justified the fame of being greater than the other African lions. The origin of the Big Barbary legend must support the accounts of hunters and exploiters in modern times (middle of the eighteenth century onwards), a period in which people of European origin began to routinely compose this landscape, accentuating this migratory flow in the Imperialist phase of the nineteenth century, being the main disseminators of the qualities of these lions. We can, by deduction, only deduction, understand the interests of the Berber trackers in encouraging, in the minds of the hunters and explorers of this land, the pretentious attractive physical characteristics, filled with the most savage and dangerous behaviors, thus initiating the story / legend we know well. Between 10,000 and 6,000 years ago the configuration of the Sahara desert was quite different from the present one. The Sahara occupied a much smaller area. At this time temperatures were reduced and the desert passed through a constant time period of about 4,000 years enjoying a very unusual green. Rivers underground today flowed and savannas dominated a large part of this environment. In this period of time, as shown by numerous drawings at archeological sites in Algeria, Libya, Chad, Niger and Mauritania, the animal population was very similar to what we see today in the serengeti (Elephants, Buffalos, Zebras, Antelopes, Giraffes, Rhinoceroses, Lions, Cheetahs, Lycaon, including Pelorovis Antiquus made up this incredible landscape). Around 6,000 years ago the climate began to change, heating the earth and beginning the process of desertification that culminated in the current landscape of the Sahara. The portrait of this time is well documented in Egyptian culture; The transformation of its once verdant landscape, and the extinctions resulting from this desertification process in conjunction with the formation of Egyptian society is reported in detail, detailing in many cases the chronological period in which the species disappeared from this territory. Of the 37 large and medium-sized mammal species, only 8 still exist in Egypt. The desertification process in Egypt, Libya and northern Chad "closed" around 3,800 years ago the migratory corridor, ceasing the flow Genetic of the Barbary Lions with the Eastern Lions. Therefore, the genetic flow from this time was only with the western lions, recognized as smaller, lighter, with little mane. In the 600 years in which the "games in the amphitheaters" were part of the Roman culture, the geographic location near the empire and more simplified logistics, made Barbary Lion the most used in this games. There are no Roman documents that indicate how this process took place, the analyzes are basically obtained from deductions from few sources that speak not of these lions more of the commerce in general, or the numerous products that came from Africa in this period, mainly slaves. According to Suetonius, Martial and Cassius Dio: at the inauguration of the Colosseum in Rome in the year 80 of our era, the games took place in more than 100 consecrated days, and around 6,000 to 9,000 wild animals were killed in the opening games. It is estimated that between 600 and 900 lions have been used at this inauguration. The Roman Empire had spread throughout its territory about 50 to 70 smaller amphitheatres, in general context, the great majority of the lions (not Barbary) were used in these marginal amphitheatres. Excluding the Barbary Lions, the lions used in Rome came primarily from the Middle East and the eastern countries of Africa - Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, possibly even from northern Kenya and Somalia. The use of the two subspecies of African rhinoceroses in Rome shows that "animal goods" probably also came from these distant two last countries. I believe that in these 600 years of exploration, the Barbary Lions faced a near extinction, which was contained by the genetic flow of Western lions. As they became rare their trade was, in economic terms and also logistical, discouraged by the sharp reduction in their numbers. In those years of intense African animal exploitation were extinct in North Africa: the Atlas wild donkey (Equus africanus atlanticus), the elephant and the giraffe in the final period of the Roman Empire. After the Roman Empire the Barbary Lions remained an even smaller prey menu, both in variety and body size. Until the relatively near extinction period, the animals that were constituted in its source of food, are: Bubal Hartebeest extinct in the 1920s, Adax Nasomaculatus, Orix Dammah, Dorcas Gazelle, Dama Gazelle, North African Ostrich, Sheep (Ammotragus Lervia ), Ibex Nubian, Boar and Red Deer. Camels, goats, sheep and cattle are an occasional household menu. If we observe these wild animals better, we find that all are medium-sized, having a maximum weight of 250 kg, consisting of fast, agile prey, where a larger muscle mass will not contribute to its capture. Male lions living in smaller groups are also usual hunters, not only engaged in patrol and territorial maintenance activities, absent themselves from the group for longer periods of time, having these lions capture alone much of their food. Accurate dimorphism between males and females were also used as justification criterion for their larger size. The problem is that we are looking for unique, unusual factors, real exceptions in the world of lions to justify a paradigm that no one knows how concretely emerged and evolved.
|
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 7 Guest(s) |