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The mighty Mapogos

South Africa HouseOfLions Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-09-2017, 12:49 PM by HouseOfLions )

(09-09-2017, 04:00 AM)Chris Wrote: How is it possible that the mapogos have no sons in 6 years of reign? I find that hard to believe @Tshokwane

The story behind that is a grim one.

1 or 2 Sub Adults to poaching snares 4 Sub adults ate a rabid dog which resulted in authorities to put them down 7 Sub adults including their 5 sons from the Sand River pride were killed by Local authorities(Hunters shot them) after their failure to bring them back into the reserve. These 12 plus the 9 they raised into adulthood is a great 21 sons and daughters combined. Add to that the unfortunate incident of Mr. T and the Ximunghue cubs. That's impressive. In fact the Mapogos are underrated in terms of siring cubs.
 
William Botha wrote something interesting and mentions it exactly as I mentioned. He precisely writes that the Mapogos lost too many offspring due to human factor. 1 lost to a poaching snare 4 to the rabbid dog incident and the 5 Mapogo sons and 2 females. We can't be sure that the 4 offspring who were put down by the authorities after eating the rabid dog would have been lost in the Selati take over. It's mere speculation. These circumstances were out of Mapogo control. Even if it was only a couple less, it would still be too many offspring killed by human factor. The Mapogos are underrated in siring cubs. Here is his article by William Botha. In addition the poaching of their strongest member, Dreadlocks was also key. It rapidly aged the Mapogo empire. https://m.facebook.com/groups/1428717714094423?view=permalink&id=1459234271042767

Still, too many offspring(8-9) from circumstances out of the Mapogo control. Nearly 20. Not to mention the Ximunghue cubs incident with T. The Dreadlocks poaching also effected the Mapogo reign greatly after 2010. William Botha hit it on the spot. There was a "darkside" to the Mapogo offspring. They were definitely successful in raising cubs Contrary to belief by some. But circumstances out of their control hampered their numbers. There's no denying it. Even today, two of the most successful prides today in sabi sands are Mapogo offsprings - Othawa and Mangheni.


The othawa sons of the Mapogo, which were only 2, went into the Kruger.

If you want more info, ask Fursan, he is the Mapogo historian.
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United States sik94 Online
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They had two sons in the othawa pride that went into the kruger.
The human race has built itself up on the footwork of a few geniuses, the average human is too self-centered and biased in his views to achieve anything worth greatness.
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Argentina Tshokwane Offline
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(09-09-2017, 04:00 AM)Chris Wrote: How is it possible that the mapogos have no sons in 6 years of reign? I find that hard to believe

As it was said, two subadults of the Othawa pride left the Sabi sands and went into the Kruger. No one knows what became of them, so there's no point in guessing.

As for the rest, some were killed as a consequence of the rabids incident, some were killed by Mr.T, others killed by the other males in displays of dominance (this was common in their first years of dominance), others were killed by the Majingilane males when they tookover, the same when the Selati males came.

As for the subadults of the Sand river pride, what House of lions leaves out, conveniently, is why they were killed. They were hunting and killing livestock in the lands of people. When the park authorities tried to push them back into the reserve, the Mapogo males chased them back out.

So, the park had little choice on the matter. If they didn't shot them, risking the lions to keep getting deeper into the people's land, and kept pushing them back in the reserve, the Mapogo themselves would have killed them. 

Now, personally, I think this would have been a better outcome simply because it would have been more "natural", but it's how it is.

At the end of the day, there's no way to deny their inability to raise their offspring to adulthood until their latter years when only three remained, where the Mangheni and Othawa girls remained, while the Ximhungwe cubs were killed by T.
‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows…those that do not run are removed’
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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The Sand River young Lions got out of the reserve because the fence was washed away by heavy raining, then they killed cows in the residential areas.
The Authorities returned them to the reserve but they escaped again, the 2nd time they were hunted by gunmen and they tried to return to the reserve but they did not manage.
One young male was shot in the back as he was passing under the fence into the reserve.

There is a lot of controversy in the mapogo ancestors.

MrT and KT has raised their own cubs when they were in the east and they were very caring fathers.
When MrT returned to the west he did not recognize the cubs of his brothers as his own, he wanted to mate and he killed his brothers' cubs.

  @Tshokwane reminds us the tragic event with those who were euthanized because they had contacted rabies. This was another big blow for the Mapogo cubs.

In the beginning of 2012 the Mapogos should have had at least 10-12 cubs who would have raised successfully if the Selaties would not have taken over.

In the mapogo history thre were so many misfortunes and changes, 
I categorically reject the opinion that MrT could not raise successfully his own cubs to maturity, he has raised his cubs in the East.
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United States vinodkumarn Offline
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(09-09-2017, 08:02 PM)LionKiss Wrote: The Sand River young Lions got out of the reserve because the fence was washed away by heavy raining, then they killed cows in the residential areas.
The Authorities returned them to the reserve but they escaped again, the 2nd time they were hunted by gunmen and they tried to return to the reserve but they did not manage.
One young male was shot in the back as he was passing under the fence into the reserve.

There is a lot of controversy in the mapogo ancestors.

MrT and KT has raised their own cubs when they were in the east and they were very caring fathers.
When MrT returned to the west he did not recognize the cubs of his brothers as his own, he wanted to mate and he killed his brothers' cubs.

  @Tshokwane reminds us the tragic event with those who were euthanized because they had contacted rabies. This was another big blow for the Mapogo cubs.

In the beginning of 2012 the Mapogos should have had at least 10-12 cubs who would have raised successfully if the Selaties would not have taken over.

In the mapogo history thre were so many misfortunes and changes, 
I categorically reject the opinion that MrT could not raise successfully his own cubs to maturity, he has raised his cubs in the East.

If I remember correctly Mr.T and KT were dominant over Torchwood pride as well and there are no much updated from the lodges reg torchwood pride!
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Brazil T Rabbit Offline
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The mapogos are not the only ones who killed their own offspring. Majingilanes killed their own tsalala cubs and matimbas their own mbiri cubs too. But majingilanes and matimbas had a lot of sons while mapogos not. Althoug some of the offspring was killed by humans the mapogos were not so lucky in have male sons. The mr.t incident And of course the majingilanes destroyed the mapogos sons in the east and selatis destroyed in the west.
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South Africa HouseOfLions Offline
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(09-09-2017, 10:44 PM)T Rabbit Wrote: The mapogos are not the only ones who killed their own offspring. Majingilanes killed their own tsalala cubs and matimbas their own mbiri cubs too. But majingilanes and matimbas had a lot of sons while mapogos not. Althoug some of the offspring was killed by humans the mapogos were not so lucky in have male sons. The mr.t incident And of course the majingilanes destroyed the mapogos sons in the east and selatis destroyed in the west.

Yes, the Mapogos were not the only one but they were the only ones who did it very frequently. And you are right about the sons thing but as I said before, that was not their fault.
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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(09-09-2017, 10:26 PM)vinodkumarn Wrote: If I remember correctly Mr.T and KT were dominant over Torchwood pride as well and there are no much updated from the lodges reg torchwood pride!

yes they were, and Torchwood pride used to live in KNP too and there is no any info if any of the MrT/KT's Torchwood cubs have survived
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Greece LionKiss Offline
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(09-09-2017, 10:44 PM)T Rabbit Wrote: The mapogos are not the only ones who killed their own offspring. Majingilanes killed their own tsalala cubs and matimbas their own mbiri cubs too. But majingilanes and matimbas had a lot of sons while mapogos not. Althoug some of the offspring was killed by humans the mapogos were not so lucky in have male sons. The mr.t incident And of course the majingilanes destroyed the mapogos sons in the east and selatis destroyed in the west.

this is what happens in all takeovers,
you see what happened with the Eyrefield Pride cubs in the last few months, all of them were killed by the Mantimahle Males, there were 5 cubs and all are dead.
The same happened when the BBoys took over the Nkuhuma Pride from the matimbas in 2015.
It is not something unexpected.
The mapogos did the same when took over prides.
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Argentina Tshokwane Offline
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Kinky tail with the Tsalala pride, 2009.



‘Like night-watchmen they patrol the dark nights; marching with intent and chasing all those unwanted into the shadows…those that do not run are removed’
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