There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
09-29-2022, 04:07 PM( This post was last modified: 09-29-2022, 05:37 PM by The Panther )
N'gagi and M'bongo, the 2 mountain gorillas that lived in San Diego Zoo back in the 1940's. One of the very rare examples of mountain gorillas living in zoos. Despite their young age they were some of the biggest captive gorillas ever recorded, N'gagi peaked at 635 lbs and M'bongo's official weight was 618 lbs, though he was said to have fluctuated between 645 to 670 lbs in life. N'gagi died at 18 and M'bongo at 16, so they were young, in the wild for a mountain gorilla to reach such impressive weights or anything remotely close they'd have to be twice their age, hence why the biggest males are usually over 30 years old.
This is N'gagi at 535 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
M'bongo at 602 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
N'gagi (left) M'bongo (right)
*This image is copyright of its original author
What's interesting is that they don't look too different from the largest wild mountain gorillas, the males generally twice their age. This really shows just how impressive those older wild males are, it makes me wonder how heavy they would be if they were actually weighed.
10-18-2022, 09:09 PM( This post was last modified: 10-18-2022, 09:15 PM by The Panther )
Huge young silverback Isabukuru in the Volcanoes National Park of Rwanda.
He's one of the largest young males I've ever seen, he died at about 22 years of age and yet rivaled males in their 30's or more.
(09-29-2022, 04:07 PM)The Panther Wrote: N'gagi and M'bongo, the 2 mountain gorillas that lived in San Diego Zoo back in the 1940's. One of the very rare examples of mountain gorillas living in zoos. Despite their young age they were some of the biggest captive gorillas ever recorded, N'gagi peaked at 635 lbs and M'bongo's official weight was 618 lbs, though he was said to have fluctuated between 645 to 670 lbs in life. N'gagi died at 18 and M'bongo at 16, so they were young, in the wild for a mountain gorilla to reach such impressive weights or anything remotely close they'd have to be twice their age, hence why the biggest males are usually over 30 years old.
This is N'gagi at 535 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
M'bongo at 602 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
N'gagi (left) M'bongo (right)
*This image is copyright of its original author
What's interesting is that they don't look too different from the largest wild mountain gorillas, the males generally twice their age. This really shows just how impressive those older wild males are, it makes me wonder how heavy they would be if they were actually weighed.
Here are their status at San Diego Zoo
*This image is copyright of its original author
Aren't they actually lowland gorillas? Other sources said they were lowland gorillas but many eastern gorilla subspecies can appear similar to each other.
(06-19-2022, 11:41 AM)The Panther Wrote: Large dominant silverback mountain gorilla defends a young blackback (teenage male) after a younger silverback attacks him. Bwindi Impenetrable Forest, Uganda.
I've noticed when gorillas fight eachother it's very similar to how bears fight, they have a similar grappling and biting style, they also have a similar kind of intensity about them when they fight.
Yet most people still think gorillas fight like King Kong and other fictional gorillas but in reality, they do not.
12-10-2022, 02:31 PM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2022, 03:06 PM by The Panther )
(12-07-2022, 07:35 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(09-29-2022, 04:07 PM)The Panther Wrote: N'gagi and M'bongo, the 2 mountain gorillas that lived in San Diego Zoo back in the 1940's. One of the very rare examples of mountain gorillas living in zoos. Despite their young age they were some of the biggest captive gorillas ever recorded, N'gagi peaked at 635 lbs and M'bongo's official weight was 618 lbs, though he was said to have fluctuated between 645 to 670 lbs in life. N'gagi died at 18 and M'bongo at 16, so they were young, in the wild for a mountain gorilla to reach such impressive weights or anything remotely close they'd have to be twice their age, hence why the biggest males are usually over 30 years old.
This is N'gagi at 535 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
M'bongo at 602 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
N'gagi (left) M'bongo (right)
*This image is copyright of its original author
What's interesting is that they don't look too different from the largest wild mountain gorillas, the males generally twice their age. This really shows just how impressive those older wild males are, it makes me wonder how heavy they would be if they were actually weighed.
Here are their status at San Diego Zoo
*This image is copyright of its original author
Aren't they actually lowland gorillas? Other sources said they were lowland gorillas but many eastern gorilla subspecies can appear similar to each other.
Yes I've seen the mix up before, but what seems more credible is that they were mountain gorillas based on what I read. Their head shape and broader faces also show Virunga mountain gorilla characteristics, though as you mentioned these features can occasionally appear in other populations, especially Bwindi mountain gorillas. Lowland gorillas although they may vary, they still seem more consistent than other Eastern gorillas in features.
Their coats are shorter, which is likely due to growing up in the San Diego climate. I don't know what they were thinking taking mountain gorillas there, mountain gorillas never experience hot temperatures in the wild, it's usually quite cool (at the warmest) in the day time and gets cold to even freezing at night in their usual habitat.
12-10-2022, 02:46 PM( This post was last modified: 12-10-2022, 03:01 PM by The Panther )
(12-07-2022, 07:44 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(06-19-2022, 11:41 AM)The Panther Wrote: Large dominant silverback mountain gorilla defends a young blackback (teenage male) after a younger silverback attacks him. Bwindi Impenetrable Forest, Uganda.
I've noticed when gorillas fight eachother it's very similar to how bears fight, they have a similar grappling and biting style, they also have a similar kind of intensity about them when they fight.
Yet most people still think gorillas fight like King Kong and other fictional gorillas but in reality, they do not.
To be fair it's not like they're fighting dinosaurs like in the 2005 movie lol, they're fighting a fellow gorilla so the rules might differ a bit. But yeah they generally fight like bears, which to me is just as scary, because the way they fight is very intense and like bears they are solid grapplers. They can rip apart flesh with their teeth once the enemy is on the ground just like bears.
12-19-2022, 04:38 PM( This post was last modified: 12-23-2022, 07:31 PM by The Panther )
Bonobos and Chimpanzees
Bonobos
*This image is copyright of its original author
Bonobos are members of the pan genus found only within the rainforest interior of the Democratic Republic of Congo. Their faces are generally dark grey with pink lips and are usually quite gracile in build compared to chimpanzees. They have a very matriarchal society which makes them quite distinct from other apes. They can number up to 100 individuals at times and are quite nomadic in nature with barely any defined borders between the groups. Hunting parties are known to be lead by females which is very unlike chimpanzees, they'd mostly hunt the small antelope species called duikers. They weigh between 90 lbs to over 132 lbs in males and over 75 lbs in females. They're said to be almost 4 feet tall bipedal making them shorter than Chimpanzees too.
Chimpanzees
*This image is copyright of its original author
Chimpanzees are the larger and more well known members of the pan genus. They live from Senegal in West Africa all the way to Tanzania in East Africa, making them the most widespread of wild great apes. Their skin come in a range of colours and shades, they go from peach and light brown in colour to dark grey. Certain chimpanzees get darker with age but others can retain lighter skin even as adults. Multiple subspecies make up the Chimpanzee species, there is the Western chimpanzees, the Nigerian-Cameroon chimpanzees, the Central Chimpanzees and then the Eastern chimpanzees. They're generally found in rainforests throughout their range, but they also live in deciduous forests, dry savanna and mountain forests. Mountain dwelling chimpanzees look quite different from the other populations, they have substantially longer coats due to the colder mountainous climate.
Chimpanzees are known to have groups of up to 200 members, they're also known to wage war against eachother in conflicts that can span years. They've even gone out of their way to attack gorilla groups, with infants being killed in the process. Males are very dominant in chimpanzee society, the highest ranking males also tend to be the most aggressive. There are alpha males too, they are the highest ranking member of all. Chimpanzees have all male patrols and hunting parties, they'll hunt anything from antelopes to monkeys.
Other than the changes that occur due to climate, chimpanzee subspecies generally look similar to eachother with less physical distinctions than those found in other great ape species. Males weigh between 90 to over 154 lbs and females between 75 to over 110 lbs. They are over 4 feet tall when bipedal with males being able to reach around 5 feet or over. Although captive individuals have exceeded over 200 lbs, their maximum size range in the wild is unknown.
12-23-2022, 02:54 PM( This post was last modified: 12-23-2022, 06:50 PM by The Panther )
Orangutans
Orangutans are the only wild great apes native to Asia, living in the rainforests of the Malay Archipelago. They have shaggy reddish coats that vary in shade depending on individuals and populations. Orangutans are truly arboreal making them the largest primates to live mostly on trees. They are very sexually dimorphic, which is unlike members of the pan genus. Males are not only significantly larger and more robust than females, but they also develop large cheek pads called flanges whilst females have a more neutral face in comparison. Orangutans are generally solitary apes, which is quite uncommon for primates in general let alone apes. The most social interactions are usually between females and their young. Up to several females can share territory with 1 dominant male, this is quite similar to what's seen in big cats where dominant males often share territory with multiple females.
In terms of size, orangutans as a whole are in the middle when it comes to great apes, being larger when compared to members of pan but smaller when compared to gorillas. They're generally similar in size throughout the species with a slight size advantage seemingly going to the Bornean Orangutan, with adult males weighing between 120 lbs to over 220 lbs and females 70 lbs to over 110 lbs. Males can reach over 5 feet in length and females around 4 feet. In captivity males have reached well over 300 lbs with one overweight male being said to have weighed 450 lbs at only 13 years of age. Their maximum size in the wild as far as I'm concerned is unknown, though I do believe they're capable of going past 220 lbs.
12-23-2022, 03:52 PM( This post was last modified: 12-23-2022, 07:45 PM by The Panther )
Gorillas
Gorillas are great apes found in West Africa to a small portion of East Africa, primarily in the rainforests of those regions. They can be found in forests from sea level to over 10,000 ft, they've also been seen roaming freezing tundras at over 13,000 ft, showing they have the greatest range of climatic adaption of all wild great apes. Gorillas like orangutans are very sexually dimorphic, males are significantly larger and more robust than females. Adult males develop a large sagittal crest that gives off a cone shape, they also develop a silver saddle of fur on their backs which whitens as they age. Both male and female gorillas have bare chests as adults, with males displaying very well defined pectoral muscles.
Gorillas are made up of 4 (potentially 5) subspecies, 2 of them are called western gorillas and the other 2 eastern, western lowland and Cross River gorillas in the west and mountain and Grauer's gorillas (aka eastern lowland) in the east. Western gorillas are generally lighter in colour, adult males have silver fur extending past the back to their legs and reddish fur on their forehead, eastern gorillas have darker coats with a more well defined silver saddle on their backs than western gorillas. Mountain gorillas have the longest coats of all gorillas, they also have fur covering their eyebrows which is generally unseen in other populations, this trait is very common specifically among the Virunga population of mountain gorillas likely due to living in even colder conditions than the Bwindi population.
Gorillas live in groups of up to 10 to 50 members, the latter number is found in the eastern populations which generally have the largest groups. These groups usually have 1 silverback at the helm though eastern gorilla groups have been known to have multiple silverbacks, they tend to be brothers or the older sons of the dominant silverback. Gorillas are the largest of the great apes, they have the greatest difference in size between populations of all wild great apes. Western gorillas are generally smaller than eastern gorillas, adult males generally weigh 330 lbs to over 400 lbs and females over 220 lbs, adult males can be 5 ft 6 to over 6 ft and females over 4 ft 11. Eastern gorillas are the largest extent of wild great apes, adult males weigh between 375 lbs to over 485 lbs and can be between 5 ft 7 to 6 ft 6. Adult females don't seem too different from their western counterparts but they do seem to get substantially heavier later in life. It's possible the biggest wild eastern gorillas could get to over 550 lbs due to mid to late life obesity, at those stages in life they tend to resemble obese captive gorillas in appearance, these are the same captive gorillas that have weighed well over 500 lbs to over 650 lbs. Like with other apes, as far as I'm concerned the maximum size range for wild gorillas is unknown due to a lack of information.
(06-19-2022, 11:41 AM)The Panther Wrote: Large dominant silverback mountain gorilla defends a young blackback (teenage male) after a younger silverback attacks him. Bwindi Impenetrable Forest, Uganda.
I've noticed when gorillas fight eachother it's very similar to how bears fight, they have a similar grappling and biting style, they also have a similar kind of intensity about them when they fight.
Yet most people still think gorillas fight like King Kong and other fictional gorillas but in reality, they do not.
To be fair it's not like they're fighting dinosaurs like in the 2005 movie lol, they're fighting a fellow gorilla so the rules might differ a bit. But yeah they generally fight like bears, which to me is just as scary, because the way they fight is very intense and like bears they are solid grapplers. They can rip apart flesh with their teeth once the enemy is on the ground just like bears.
Even as a possibility to be able to fight like fictional characters (i.e. King Kong), I don't think so. Gorillas may fight differently depending on what kind of animals that confronted them, but to fight like King Kong I think is out of the realm of possibility. Bears fight the same regardless of the kind of the animals. Wrestle, wrestle, wrestle, bite, bite, bite.
(09-29-2022, 04:07 PM)The Panther Wrote: N'gagi and M'bongo, the 2 mountain gorillas that lived in San Diego Zoo back in the 1940's. One of the very rare examples of mountain gorillas living in zoos. Despite their young age they were some of the biggest captive gorillas ever recorded, N'gagi peaked at 635 lbs and M'bongo's official weight was 618 lbs, though he was said to have fluctuated between 645 to 670 lbs in life. N'gagi died at 18 and M'bongo at 16, so they were young, in the wild for a mountain gorilla to reach such impressive weights or anything remotely close they'd have to be twice their age, hence why the biggest males are usually over 30 years old.
This is N'gagi at 535 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
M'bongo at 602 lbs
*This image is copyright of its original author
N'gagi (left) M'bongo (right)
*This image is copyright of its original author
What's interesting is that they don't look too different from the largest wild mountain gorillas, the males generally twice their age. This really shows just how impressive those older wild males are, it makes me wonder how heavy they would be if they were actually weighed.
Here are their status at San Diego Zoo
*This image is copyright of its original author
Aren't they actually lowland gorillas? Other sources said they were lowland gorillas but many eastern gorilla subspecies can appear similar to each other.
Yes I've seen the mix up before, but what seems more credible is that they were mountain gorillas based on what I read. Their head shape and broader faces also show Virunga mountain gorilla characteristics, though as you mentioned these features can occasionally appear in other populations, especially Bwindi mountain gorillas. Lowland gorillas although they may vary, they still seem more consistent than other Eastern gorillas in features.
Their coats are shorter, which is likely due to growing up in the San Diego climate. I don't know what they were thinking taking mountain gorillas there, mountain gorillas never experience hot temperatures in the wild, it's usually quite cool (at the warmest) in the day time and gets cold to even freezing at night in their usual habitat.
No matter if they're mountain gorilla or eastern lowland gorilla, it just shows that eastern gorillas tend to be bigger than their western counterparts. Samson from the Milwaukee zoo was 652 lbs and M'bongo was, at his highest, 670 lbs.
