There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 5 Vote(s) - 4.4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Birmingham Males

Duco Ndona Online
Contributor
*****

Its just speculation. One should never rule out one option just over an animals pride or honour. 
Its also one of the few options that means he is alive. 

Besides, I never said its permanent. He may just have fled from a fight and still recovering before finding his way back.
Reply

South Africa Slayerd Offline
Regular Member
***
Big Grin 

(12-12-2021, 09:49 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its just speculation. One should never rule out one option just over an animals pride or honour. 
Its also one of the few options that means he is alive. 

Besides, I never said its permanent. He may just have fled from a fight and still recovering before finding his way back.

I'm sorry but I don't think you understand animals as much as you think you do
Reply

Duco Ndona Online
Contributor
*****

In that case, He is death. Happy now?
I was just listing the alternative in which he is alive.
Reply

United States BA0701 Offline
Super Moderator
******

That is truly concerning. Perhaps the injuries that were seen on the Avocas or the ones seen on the Nwas' around the same time weren't actually caused by each other. Tinyo was a beast of a male lion, and a known scrapper, regardless of what has become of him, if it was the result of a clash with another lion(s) then you can be assured the other(s) involved would surely show signs of that interaction.
2 users Like BA0701's post
Reply

Duco Ndona Online
Contributor
*****
( This post was last modified: 12-14-2021, 12:26 AM by Duco Ndona )

Or the PC males, Tsalala female and the Mhangeni pride which have also been spotted with new wounds or death in the past few weeks.

There have been quite a lot of scraps lately. Figuring out who fought who will quite a interesting puzzle. As the Avocas wounds could also be coused by the PC males, but the PC males wounds could also be old wounds caused by their fight with the Tsalala female etc.

Offcourse it may also have been not a lion at all.

Whats also concerning is that both are quite a distance away from the Kambulas right now. While the Nwaswitshakas are just meters away.
1 user Likes Duco Ndona's post
Reply

criollo2mil Offline
Contributor
*****

Mala Mala Blog Report : Local Legends: An update on the Gowrie males

14 December 2021 — By rangers Gareth Nuttall-Smith and Victoria Craddock

Excerpt:


We don't have any concrete evidence but here are the harrowing truths:

Days have turned to weeks and weeks to months since the last confirmed sighting of the older Gowrie male (26th October 2021).
The younger male has been seen frequently. Most of the time, in the company of various factions of the fragmented Kambula pride.
The females of the Kambula pride are sporting battle wounds, indicative of lion-on-lion combat which we believe took place on the 5th of November, in the eastern parts of the property. This was also the last time all 10 cubs were seen, since then we have only seen 7. The Ndhzenga males were found in close proximity, around the same time… also decorated with fresh wounds.
While we speculate that the older Gowrie male has left this kingdom for another, our speculations may well be invalid as stranger things have been known to happen in this wild and often misunderstood environment. However, it would appear that was once a coalition of five, is now down to one…




Full Blog Report at the link below:


https://www.malamala.com/blog/local-lege...wrie-males
7 users Like criollo2mil's post
Reply

Tonpa Offline
Contributor
*****

Sounds like one hell of a battle royale took place, Kambula lionesses injured, Ndzengha males injured, blondie avoca injured
5 users Like Tonpa's post
Reply

RookiePundit Offline
Regular Member
***

Eastern part? That has to be a mistake, Ndhezngas would be near border with Londolozi more or less, wouldn't they?
2 users Like RookiePundit's post
Reply

United Kingdom Hairy tummy Offline
Senior Member
****

I dont think we'll ever really know whats gone on but its definitely been mayhem, so many lions with injuries in ss
2 users Like Hairy tummy's post
Reply

Poland Potato Offline
Contributor
*****

(12-15-2021, 10:27 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: Eastern part? That has to be a mistake, Ndhezngas would be near border with Londolozi more or less, wouldn't they?

Ndzenga males invaded through southern Londolozi. From there they moved north to north-central Londolozi where they chassed Avocas towards east into Mala Mala camp. They followed and chassed off Avocas also from Mala Mala main camp and the next day Amahle was seen on a kill around Ratlay camp Mala Mala where Birminghams used to hang since they lost Mala Mala main camp to Avocas. Also it is the spot where 3 Kambula females were denning their cubs. Since they Ndzengas are nearly all over Mala Mala as you can see on Mala Mala you tube channel.
3 users Like Potato's post
Reply

Croatia Tr1x24 Offline
Top Contributor
******
( This post was last modified: 12-15-2021, 08:07 PM by Tr1x24 )

Unfortunately, at this point, is almost certain that Tinyo is dead.. 

By recent MalaMala report, he was not seen in November whatsoever (and now half thru December) report that both Bboys where on a carcass in eastern MalaMala during N'ws vs Avocas clash, around 8th Nov, was false, as only 1 younger Bboy (Nhenha) was there with few subadults, per this report.. Which also explains, that during that clash, Londolozi rangers heard only 1 Bboy roaring east.. 

Tinyo disappeared somewhere at the very end of October, this is his prob last sighting, patroling in the night with Nhenha, it was posted on 2th Nov, but says few night before (MalaMala last saw them together on 26th,which might be this sighting) :

https://www.instagram.com/gameranger_rob...=copy_link

This also explains "vacant" Bboys territory and how easily N'ws progressed all the way to N. Avocas territory and then took vacant Bboys territory around Rattray's and Airstrip, as Nhenha alone, didn't stand a chance against 4 males and he and Kambulas moved out of the way.. 

Also recently, 1 of Kambula females with cubs appeared at west street bridge, she has quite few wounds, and only 2 cubs (out of 4 she had):

 

Not sure if other females and cubs (if they are alive) are seen.

As N'ws now completely control area between MalaMala Camps along Sand River, Nhenha prob at this point abandoned 3 Kambulas and cubs, and hangs with subadults, prob already in semi- nomadic phase as subadults are (seen all the way in Singita with them). Staying with females and try to defend them means dead for him, females will be found by 4 males sooner or later, and cubs will be killed (as some prob already are).. 

Now what happened to Tinyo is a mistery, i dont think 4 N'ws kill him because as they appeared in Londolozi, they didn't show any signs of fresh wounds or scars and where seen further south at Sabi Sabi around that time (but they might, who knows) .. Maybe hunting gone wrong or some natural death, who knows.. 

Somebody said that he maybe run away/abandon his brother when he heard 4 invading males and went east, running for his life, as he is older male and out of his prime, which, idk, i dont think its likely that he will abandon his brother just like that and went into Kruger, unknown area, he would most likely joined subadults, as Nhenha did in the past few weeks.. 

Shame that we will prob never know for sure what happened to Tinyo.. 

Future of Nhenha is now uncertaint, lucky for him, he has his sons which he can, and prob will follow from now on and try to avoid N'ws with them. 

Nhenha is still in top condition, if he can avoid dominant males, and stick with his sons, he might reach quite old age tho.
10 users Like Tr1x24's post
Reply

Poland Potato Offline
Contributor
*****

Mala Mala November:

THE GOWRIE MALES = 2 
1 ADULT MALE ± 10 YEARS 11 MONTHS 
1 ADULT MALE ± 9 YEARS 11 MONTHS

This month, 13 sightings of the younger Gowrie male were recorded. The last confirmed sighting of both males together was on the 26th of October in eastern Flockfield. All 13 sightings of this male were in Flockfield. The Gowrie male was seen with members of the Kambula pride in all but two sightings. On the 8th , he was with members of the Kambula pride on a buffalo kill north of the Kapen River west of the KNP break. On the 25th , he was with members of the Kambula pride on a buffalo bull kill on the MalaMala Flockfield Boundary east of White Cloth Open Area. 

THE KAMBULA PRIDE = 29 
3 ADULT FEMALES ± 8 YEARS 8 MONTHS 
3 ADULT FEMALES ± 8 YEARS 5 MONTHS 
6 SUB ADULT FEMALES ± 3 YEARS 3 MONTHS 
5 SUB ADULT MALES ± 3 YEARS 3 MONTHS 
1 SUB ADULT FEMALE 2 YEARS 6 MONTHS 
1 SUB ADULT MALE 2 YEARS 6 MONTHS 
3 CUBS 8 MONTHS 
4 CUBS 6 MONTHS 
3 CUBS 4 MONTHS

For the last few months, we have reported the challenges of attempting to keep up with the dynamics of this pride. With the sub-adults almost reaching adulthood, lionesses having new litters of cubs, the ageing of the dominant coalition (the Gowrie males), and the presence of new males in the area, this pride is very fragmented and spread out throughout their home range. This month was no different, with additional elements adding to the fragmentation of the pride. The sudden advancement north by the four Ndhzenga males and over 100mm of rainfall have contributed to the reduction of sighting of members of this pride. For the most part, the pride has shifted away from the Sand River and seem to spend time in the eastern section of their territory. 

The groupings of this pride showed similar fragments as in previous months, with the three lionesses and cubs spending time in central Flockfield, making use of the rocks on Baby Elephant Walk used as a den site.

The bulk of the pride, consisting of one adult lioness and the sub-adults, was spread throughout the pride's territory and did not move together as one unit. The presence of the Ndhzenga males in their territory meant that these lions spent their time avoiding potential conflict. The remaining two lionesses continue to spend time in the area of MalaMala Camp.

Noteworthy sightings: On the 3rd , two lionesses had a warthog kill south of Old Wildebeest Crossing. One adult lioness, three sub-adult males, three sub-adult females, five cubs and a Gowrie male had a buffalo bull kill north of the Kapen River, just west of the KNP break on the 8th .
On the 11th , three sub-adults were feeding on an elephant carcass south of Rattray's camp. Although, the sub-adults and the younger Gowrie male avoided the elephant carcass on the days when the Ndhzenga males fed on it. Four adult lionesses, a sub-adult male and the younger Gowrie male, had a buffalo kill east of White Cloth on the 24th; on the 25th, cubs joined them. Two adult lionesses ad 11 sub-adults had two buffalo cow kills midway along Emsagweni on the 28th . The month ended in a brutal finale as 12 sub-adults killed the male leopard that we've referred to in the Game Reports over the last 18 months as the 'Marthly Nervous' male at Paddy's Pool's.
3 users Like Potato's post
Reply

South Africa Slayerd Offline
Regular Member
***

(12-15-2021, 08:05 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Unfortunately, at this point, is almost certain that Tinyo is dead.. 

By recent MalaMala report, he was not seen in November whatsoever (and now half thru December) report that both Bboys where on a carcass in eastern MalaMala during N'ws vs Avocas clash, around 8th Nov, was false, as only 1 younger Bboy (Nhenha) was there with few subadults, per this report.. Which also explains, that during that clash, Londolozi rangers heard only 1 Bboy roaring east.. 

Tinyo disappeared somewhere at the very end of October, this is his prob last sighting, patroling in the night with Nhenha, it was posted on 2th Nov, but says few night before (MalaMala last saw them together on 26th,which might be this sighting) :

https://www.instagram.com/gameranger_rob...=copy_link

This also explains "vacant" Bboys territory and how easily N'ws progressed all the way to N. Avocas territory and then took vacant Bboys territory around Rattray's and Airstrip, as Nhenha alone, didn't stand a chance against 4 males and he and Kambulas moved out of the way.. 

Also recently, 1 of Kambula females with cubs appeared at west street bridge, she has quite few wounds, and only 2 cubs (out of 4 she had):

 

Not sure if other females and cubs (if they are alive) are seen.

As N'ws now completely control area between MalaMala Camps along Sand River, Nhenha prob at this point abandoned 3 Kambulas and cubs, and hangs with subadults, prob already in semi- nomadic phase as subadults are (seen all the way in Singita with them). Staying with females and try to defend them means dead for him, females will be found by 4 males sooner or later, and cubs will be killed (as some prob already are).. 

Now what happened to Tinyo is a mistery, i dont think 4 N'ws kill him because as they appeared in Londolozi, they didn't show any signs of fresh wounds or scars and where seen further south at Sabi Sabi around that time (but they might, who knows) .. Maybe hunting gone wrong or some natural death, who knows.. 

Somebody said that he maybe run away/abandon his brother when he heard 4 invading males and went east, running for his life, as he is older male and out of his prime, which, idk, i dont think its likely that he will abandon his brother just like that and went into Kruger, unknown area, he would most likely joined subadults, as Nhenha did in the past few weeks.. 

Shame that we will prob never know for sure what happened to Tinyo.. 

Future of Nhenha is now uncertaint, lucky for him, he has his sons which he can, and prob will follow from now on and try to avoid N'ws with them. 

Nhenha is still in top condition, if he can avoid dominant males, and stick with his sons, he might reach quite old age tho.

Thank you, this is the most likely scenario. Although we still can't be certain Nhenha abandoned the Kambula 3 lionesses and 7 cubs. We can only know that later. We will have to see what he does going forward.
3 users Like Slayerd's post
Reply

United Kingdom Hairy tummy Offline
Senior Member
****

(12-15-2021, 08:05 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Unfortunately, at this point, is almost certain that Tinyo is dead.. 

By recent MalaMala report, he was not seen in November whatsoever (and now half thru December) report that both Bboys where on a carcass in eastern MalaMala during N'ws vs Avocas clash, around 8th Nov, was false, as only 1 younger Bboy (Nhenha) was there with few subadults, per this report.. Which also explains, that during that clash, Londolozi rangers heard only 1 Bboy roaring east.. 

Tinyo disappeared somewhere at the very end of October, this is his prob last sighting, patroling in the night with Nhenha, it was posted on 2th Nov, but says few night before (MalaMala last saw them together on 26th,which might be this sighting) :

https://www.instagram.com/gameranger_rob...=copy_link

This also explains "vacant" Bboys territory and how easily N'ws progressed all the way to N. Avocas territory and then took vacant Bboys territory around Rattray's and Airstrip, as Nhenha alone, didn't stand a chance against 4 males and he and Kambulas moved out of the way.. 

Also recently, 1 of Kambula females with cubs appeared at west street bridge, she has quite few wounds, and only 2 cubs (out of 4 she had):

 

Not sure if other females and cubs (if they are alive) are seen.

As N'ws now completely control area between MalaMala Camps along Sand River, Nhenha prob at this point abandoned 3 Kambulas and cubs, and hangs with subadults, prob already in semi- nomadic phase as subadults are (seen all the way in Singita with them). Staying with females and try to defend them means dead for him, females will be found by 4 males sooner or later, and cubs will be killed (as some prob already are).. 

Now what happened to Tinyo is a mistery, i dont think 4 N'ws kill him because as they appeared in Londolozi, they didn't show any signs of fresh wounds or scars and where seen further south at Sabi Sabi around that time (but they might, who knows) .. Maybe hunting gone wrong or some natural death, who knows.. 

Somebody said that he maybe run away/abandon his brother when he heard 4 invading males and went east, running for his life, as he is older male and out of his prime, which, idk, i dont think its likely that he will abandon his brother just like that and went into Kruger, unknown area, he would most likely joined subadults, as Nhenha did in the past few weeks.. 

Shame that we will prob never know for sure what happened to Tinyo.. 

Future of Nhenha is now uncertaint, lucky for him, he has his sons which he can, and prob will follow from now on and try to avoid N'ws with them. 

Nhenha is still in top condition, if he can avoid dominant males, and stick with his sons, he might reach quite old age tho.

Great to have you back tr1x24
8 users Like Hairy tummy's post
Reply

Duco Ndona Online
Contributor
*****

If he didnt abandon them. He is going to have a big problem waiting for him if he returns now. 

He could in theory wait things out and try to rejoin the pride once the Nwaswitshakas leave. But at one point the pride is no longer going to accept him back.

It would also be delay of execution. The Nwaswitshakas learned that there are good mating opportunities in that region and would be back for more soon.
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB