Snow Leopard (Panthera uncia)

[Shadow]

(01-28-2019, 08:09 PM)Sanju Wrote:

Quote:@Shadow 

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From that video quite impossible to say if male or female. So there has to be more information from people who recorded this if able to say, that it is a male. Anyway female could do the same without a doubt if this really is a male :)

No, in my previous post I said so just casually lol coz I don't like to refer animals as "it". Hence I used "He" but not implied him as "male". So I said don't quote me for that.

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Limbs and Vertebral Column
In terms of limb proportions, the snow leopard most resembles the cheetah, which is an open-country pursuit predator (Gonyea, 1976). The humeroradial index (94.6%) is only slightly
less than that of the lion (98.3%) and the cheetah (103.3%), while the femorotibial index (105%) matches that of the cheetah, indicating longer lower limbs for a longer stride and potentially
higher running speeds. The intermembral index is only 84.7% and falls within values for other large cats. The snow leopard’s hunting behavior has been recorded on film in recent years and indicates that from an ambush it can display rapid acceleration and pursuit of bovid prey, with long leaps and sharp turns. The relatively longer tibiae would allow for more effective leaping, which is also supported by the relatively long thoracic (42.4% presacral vertebral length) and lumbar (35.6%) segments of the vertebral column, which ranked second among those of all large felids, thus allowing for more effective, efficient and flexibility in leaping and turning.
Rieger (1984) mentioned a muscle, the musculus endopectoralis (= pectoralis major), which runs from the posterior sternum to the distal humerus, and apparently acts as a “spring” when
a jumping mammal lands. Among felids the pectoralis major has the highest relative weight, emphasizing its importance in absorbing energy when landing after leaping. Snow leopards have
apparently been recorded leaping as far as 15 m across a gorge (Ognev, 1962).

Tail
The snow leopard also has a long tail (75–90% of head-and-body length; Hemmer, 1972; mean 83% in 13 males and mean 82.2% in 15 females, ACK, unpublished data), which acts as a balancing organ (Rieger, 1984), when leaping between rocks and ascending or descending steep slopes, especially while moving rapidly in pursuit of prey. The tail is also used as a mufer to insulate paws and head from the cold at high altitude when resting (Rieger, 1984).

I read your message in somewhat sloppy way Anyway that is great footage! She is a magnificent snow leopard Reply

[Sanju]

The lion's closest relatives are the other species of the genus Panthera; the tiger, snow leopard, jaguar, and leopard. Results of phylogenetic studies published in 2006 and 2009 indicate that the jaguar and the lion belong to one sister group that diverged about 2.06 million years ago. (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/311/5757/73) ["Phylogeny and evolution of cats (Felidae)"]
Biology and Conservation of Wild Felids

Results of later studies published in 2010 and 2011 indicate that the leopard and the lion belong to the same sister group, which diverged between 1.95 and 3.10 million years ago.
https://web.archive.org/web/201603051316...logeny.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20138224
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3189913/
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl...ne.0025483

Quote:Hybridisation between lion and snow leopard ancestors, however, may have continued until about 2.1 million years ago.

The mitochondrial genomes of snow leopard and lion was more similar to each other than to other Panthera species, indicating that at some point in their history, the female progeny of male ancestors of modern snow leopards and female ancestors of modern lions interbred with male ancestors of modern snow leopards.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691742/
https://www.livescience.com/53389-cat-li...eding.html Reply

[Sanju]

(01-28-2019, 08:11 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway what comes to snow leopard and "shy".... it is a relative word naturally. What comes to hunting it can be far from shy, in this case tiger most probably would have fled much earlier.

Didn't you see Rajah's video hunting of Water buffaloes in Tiger predation??? Reply

[Sanju]

(01-28-2019, 08:11 PM)Shadow Wrote: What comes to dholes and snow leopards and dholes and tigers, I don´t think, that too big conclusions can be done by comparing so different kind of big cats and typical environments. For instance when thinking about agility of snow leopard and tiger, it is quite easy to make a conclusion, that snow leopard is way faster when making turns and giving nice swipe with claws or fast bite. So 3-4 dholes for sure are in big trouble if snow leopard makes an attack. Same of course if tiger makes an attack. 3-4 isn´t enough if there is trouble with either of these "cats". They might harass and so, but hard to think more than that if bluff doesn´t work out.

Anyway what comes to snow leopard and "shy".... it is a relative word naturally. What comes to hunting it can be far from shy, in this case tiger most probably would have fled much earlier.

What on earth! how the hell the calf is still standing after about 30 sec of suffocation? I know the lowest bite force of "Panthera" is Snowy's but still. He just won't let go his prey, he released after that yak mother tossed him upside down still no injury to body. The invincible. and more impressive is that calf. LOL. BTW Hats off to his bravery... Reply

[Sanju]

@Spalea I advice you to shift these videos to snow leopard's thread coz these awesome videos belong there. :) Though I've seen the last post's three videos but many of the guests might not have saw those... :) Reply

[Shadow]

(01-28-2019, 08:44 PM)Sanju Wrote:

(01-28-2019, 08:11 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway what comes to snow leopard and "shy".... it is a relative word naturally. What comes to hunting it can be far from shy, in this case tiger most probably would have fled much earlier.

Didn't you see Rajah's video hunting of Water buffaloes in Tiger predation???

I have seen many, I know that there are cases where is a lot of courage and even suicidal elements. Then we have cases, where same animal can flee just like that. Of course from 1-2 videos can´t be made too big assumptions. I wrote as I did just to "shake up" a little bit and have some discussion maybe, that to what some assumptions are based on? Like that snow leopard would be "shy" compared to other big cats. It has been "traditionally" quite difficult to see and observe of course. What kind of hunter it is, is then so different thing.

Anyway usually big cats flee when there is a pack of big bovines who make counter attacks :) Reply

[Sanju]

(01-28-2019, 09:08 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have seen many, I know that there are cases where is a lot of courage and even suicidal elements. Then we have cases, where same animal can flee just like that. Of course from 1-2 videos can´t be made too big assumptions. I wrote as I did just to "shake up" a little bit and have some discussion maybe, that to what some assumptions are based on? Like that snow leopard would be "shy" compared to other big cats. It has been "traditionally" quite difficult to see and observe of course. What kind of hunter it is, is then so different thing.

Thanks for a decent response. Very Good. Reply

[Spalea]

@Sanju :

About #1422: yes no problem, that is more logical, even  if I only wanted to make the discussion about the snow leopard longer. Reply

[Spalea]

Snow leopards are marvellous animals seeming to be able to defy the laws of gravity (and thus the wild goats too). Although not as spectacular as the video both at #53 and #66 of this topic, however we can admire the snow leopard's beauty...

Reply

[Rishi]

@Shadow @smedz don't go off-topic unnecessarily.

@sanjay @peter I finally have found a way to copy posts (whole conversation) to other threads instead of just quoting them!
#112 to #119 in this thread were copied, not moved, from page 95 of Zoos, Circuses, Safaris; A Gallery of Captivity Reply

[Jimmy]

(01-28-2019, 09:08 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway usually big cats flee when there is a pack of big bovines who make counter attacks :)

Most probably the snow leopard stalked these herd for days and since they are domestic yaks which looks rather naive-the herd members, the snow leopard must have slowly crept forward keeping camouflaged and then launched the surprise attack, if these were wild yaks, they may have been alerted far quicker, and showed basic bovine threat display like snorting, stomping, thrashing and horning the ground etc. there are also cases of Himalayan black bear attacking and killing domestic yaks. Domestic bovines for the most part lacks the organised defense and understanding of threat when it comes to anti-predator tactics Reply

[Shadow]

(01-31-2019, 11:03 AM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-28-2019, 09:08 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway usually big cats flee when there is a pack of big bovines who make counter attacks :)

Most probably the snow leopard stalked these herd for days and since they are domestic yaks which looks rather naive-the herd members, the snow leopard must have slowly crept forward keeping camouflaged and then launched the surprise attack, if these were wild yaks, they may have been alerted far quicker, and showed basic bovine threat display like snorting, stomping, thrashing and horning the ground etc. there are also cases of Himalayan black bear attacking and killing domestic yaks. Domestic bovines for the most part lacks the organised defense and understanding of threat when it comes to anti-predator tactics

Still when some animal with that big horns comes and starts to make attacks, that behavior of that snow leopard was quite interesting to watch. Partially luck to walk away from such situation unharmed. Also domestic animals have injured badly predators. Reply

[Jimmy]

(01-31-2019, 01:59 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-31-2019, 11:03 AM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-28-2019, 09:08 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway usually big cats flee when there is a pack of big bovines who make counter attacks :)

Most probably the snow leopard stalked these herd for days and since they are domestic yaks which looks rather naive-the herd members, the snow leopard must have slowly crept forward keeping camouflaged and then launched the surprise attack, if these were wild yaks, they may have been alerted far quicker, and showed basic bovine threat display like snorting, stomping, thrashing and horning the ground etc. there are also cases of Himalayan black bear attacking and killing domestic yaks. Domestic bovines for the most part lacks the organised defense and understanding of threat when it comes to anti-predator tactics

Still when some animal with that big horns comes and starts to make attacks, that behavior of that snow leopard was quite interesting to watch. Partially luck to walk away from such situation unharmed. Also domestic animals have injured badly predators.

I know the potential risk involved in hunting domestic animals however I was only referring to your initial comment, most big cats tend to know the domestic herd are less alert and they seek out the most vulnerable one. Still that's impressive for snow leopard to not let go even after mutiple hits, big cats tend to get extremly focused once they latch onto something extreme lucky in my view. I don't think necessarily it is bravery display but result of living in extreme environment and then seeing the opportunity of a meal in small calf, definitely did not want any part of the adults but just got itself into it. was lucky it get away. Reply

[Shadow]

(01-31-2019, 04:15 PM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-31-2019, 01:59 PM)Shadow Wrote:

(01-31-2019, 11:03 AM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-28-2019, 09:08 PM)Shadow Wrote: Anyway usually big cats flee when there is a pack of big bovines who make counter attacks :)

Most probably the snow leopard stalked these herd for days and since they are domestic yaks which looks rather naive-the herd members, the snow leopard must have slowly crept forward keeping camouflaged and then launched the surprise attack, if these were wild yaks, they may have been alerted far quicker, and showed basic bovine threat display like snorting, stomping, thrashing and horning the ground etc. there are also cases of Himalayan black bear attacking and killing domestic yaks. Domestic bovines for the most part lacks the organised defense and understanding of threat when it comes to anti-predator tactics

Still when some animal with that big horns comes and starts to make attacks, that behavior of that snow leopard was quite interesting to watch. Partially luck to walk away from such situation unharmed. Also domestic animals have injured badly predators.

I know the potential risk involved in hunting domestic animals however I was only referring to your initial comment, most big cats tend to know the domestic herd are less alert and they seek out the most vulnerable one. Still that's impressive for snow leopard to not let go even after mutiple hits, big cats tend to get extremly focused once they latch onto something extreme lucky in my view. I don't think necessarily it is bravery display but result of living in extreme environment and then seeing the opportunity of a meal in small calf, definitely did not want any part of the adults but just got itself into it. was lucky it get away.

Yes I agree, that predators have some understanding, that domestic animals can be easier. Still that determination with calf was for me unusual. That kind of behavior is with so high risk. Reply

[nobody]

Three-Legged Snow Leopard

https://blog.nature.org/science/2018/05/29/tracking-the-three-legged-snow-leopard/ Reply