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Size comparisons
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 (05-20-2021, 08:11 AM)tigerluver Wrote: @Balam, here are the ratios: Great job, tysm! You're correct that I was understating the hip height based on that study, this can be confirmed by the paper PUBERTAD EN NOVILLAS Y TOROS BRAHMAN, Mendoza et al. 1999, here's a chart concerning calves of less than 1.5 years and the hip height is actually more than what I had previously posted (altura a la grupa):  *This image is copyright of its original author At a weight of 320 kg those calves are significantly below the weight range of adult cows of 500 to 700 kg. I did find some information from some ranchers stating the rump height in Brahman cows is 155 cm, but nothing from peer-reviewed papers so I didn't include it here although I see very little reasons to doubt that information. I did find better data, from Comparison of body measurements of beef cows of different breeds, Nagy et al. 2007  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author This is perfect because the live weights gathered for the cattle all fall within the Brahman cow range so we can use total average rump height instead which is 138.3 or 146.6 for a slightly above average specimen: in that case the jaguar SH would be ~75 cm based on the overall average or 79 cm based on the slightly higher average for the Blonde d’Aquitaine breed which seems the most similar in size, those measurements make more sense. For the fun of it, if we were to use the maximum rump height from this study of 158 cm assuming the cow in the picture represents a very large individual and close to the alleged rump height stated by the ranches for Brahman cows, the SH for the jaguar would be 85 cm. 
Liger vs Big Kodiak Bear
Height comparison *This image is copyright of its original author
Black jaguar and cougar which seems to be the same place:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Cougar and jaguar in Arizona, USA  *This image is copyright of its original author
Jaguars from Arizona are some of the smallest in the world, their main prey are coatis and collared peccary who themselves live in scarce quantities across the desertic terrain. Much like leopards, cougars only overlap with the smallest jaguars to the extent that these jaguars have dwarfed in order to survive based on lesser food intake. When jaguars and cougars inhabit environments that are rich in prey jaguars are able to showcase their true size potential and completely dwarf any cougar or leopard in body mass and bulkiness. Caiman Ecological Refuge trail cam:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
I'll use this particular model as a female (like it is in real life) from now on; these two are scaled to maximum shoulder heights:
 *This image is copyright of its original author
Florida panther and labrador retriever:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author carltonward 
2 Adult Dark male Jags from the brazilian Caatinga and Cerrado biomes.
Top: 43 kg Caatinga male Jaguar (Lampião male) Bottom: 117 kg Cerrado male Jaguar (Tiago male) credits: Rafael Garay and Leandro Silveira  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Leopard and dhole
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Wildlife Camera Trapping
@Balam
@ @Pckts I found this comparison effective, at least to me Remember the 115 kg Persian Leopard that turned out to be a 95 kg male? Well there are some people doubting even about the 95 kg mark. For comparison, this is a dead Jaguar (which was posted by Dark Jaguar on Moder Weight and Measurements for wild Jaguars) that was run over by a truck in Brazil if I remember correctly, it weighed 94 kg *This image is copyright of its original author You can look at the size of the jaguar compared to people and then compare it to the 95 kg leopard *This image is copyright of its original author To me, they seem pretty the same. I'd confirm that the leopard weighed 95 kg or 210 lbs, this would exceed the 91 kg record of the largest persian ever recorded and put the limit at 95 kg for Panthera Pardus Saxicolor. Still 1 kg smaller than the Namibian one tho but there's not too much difference  (06-10-2021, 08:30 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote: @Balam You’re comparing two different positions not to mention one had humans behind it to embellish the size. But even so, the Persians body mass doesn’t look as robust as the Jaguar. Here are some other shots of the same cat  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
There are other photos that does indicate that it was a large leopard. I've discussed this with you before but I'll post them again for @"LoveAnimals"
He had large paws:  *This image is copyright of its original author A pretty large head:  *This image is copyright of its original author Lying next to a woman:  *This image is copyright of its original author I agree that some photos make him appear smaller than he really was but these photos clearly show a male leopard above average. (06-10-2021, 08:47 PM)Pckts Wrote: You’re comparing two different positions not to mention one had humans behind it to embellish the size. Yes the people in the jaguar photo I posted are farer than the camera but if you virtually put them to the same level the size difference will be basically the same to the one of the leopard i posted. This is another pic of the jaguar with a person next to it. *This image is copyright of its original author Imagine if the person stood up, the difference wouldn't be much if not non existent compared to this. *This image is copyright of its original author Being more robust doesn't **always** mean being more heavy to be honest, I am a gym guy since 2 years and despite this I am more muscular than my class mate but just weigh as much as him, about 80 kgs, and he doesn't even do workout nor he is fat. He is 1.83 I am 1.81 so not even much height difference Ok silly comparison, just wanted to say that as you already know Jaguars even on same size are more robust than leopards and its not depend from individual to individual , it's how the two species are naturally built. As example, I compared these two anatomy models and scaled both on same size and despite this, the jaguar is still more builky and robust than the leopard. *This image is copyright of its original author That's because of their evolution, leopards adapted more gracile bodies to be the top climbers of the Panthera family and evolved as secondary predators, whereas Jaguars, as they are no near leopards in terms of climbing (which might be the reason why Jaguars have proportionally shorter legs to their body dimensions, also because long legs in rainforest wouldn't help much) and are apex predators evolved in a totally different environment, evolved a stockier and builker body. Even the Mexican Jaguar or the smallest jaguar population, who overlaps even the largest leopards populations in terms of size, looks builker than most average leopards (but if we take note of 80–92+kg leopards I'd say they are the same). The leopard needs a bigger size to look more builky. Some leopards (mostly from Iran, Aberdares, Kenya and Kwa Zulu Natal) grow huge and muscular enough to match these jaguars, not the Panthanal, Llanos and Venezuelian ones of course they would get dwarfed by them. It is the same with leopards compared to cougars, on same size leopards are more robustly built than cougars, who nedd to be bigger to seem much more robust. Switch cougar with Jaguar and it's the Jaguar who is more robust, even at same size (same size = same weight). That's how they are built. Still, they really seem to be of the same size. (06-10-2021, 10:49 PM)Luipaard Wrote: He had large paws:Just to compare, this is the paw of the Namibian leopard posted on http://AfricaHunting.com (http://AfricaHunting.com) which was weighed (not confirmed) to be about 108 kgs. Even if it is not reliable that it weights that much you all agree that it is a leopard way above average, and this is the comparison with the persian one. Namibian *This image is copyright of its original author Persian *This image is copyright of its original author The size of the paw is pretty much the same, so.... That's why I say it is reliable the 95 kg mark.
Male lion, leopard, spotted hyena's and brown hyena at a waterhole in the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Source: Kgalagadi Leopard Project |
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