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Saltwater Crocodile-Great White Shark interactions

United States chaos Offline
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(01-18-2015, 12:56 PM)'Vodmeister' Wrote:
(01-10-2015, 04:07 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Here is a verified predation of a Large croc on a tiny Bull shark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...odile.html

The witness states the amount of struggle the tiny shark was able to put up on the much larger croc and how the croc had to work hard to finally kill the shark. Imagine a 16-20 ft long GWS 4000-6000lbs.
Its just not reasonable that a croc would even attempt on such a large animal let a lone be strong enough to hold on to a animal double its own weight. 


 

A 5.5 m (18 ft) great white shark would not weigh 4000 lbs and certainly nowhere near 6000 lbs. If a large recorded 6.0 m (19.7 ft) great white weighed 4200 lbs, then using the square cube law, it scales an 18 ft crocodile down to 3204 lbs.

A 6.1 m (20 ft) saltwater crocodile on the other hand, would weigh approximately 2200 lbs.

 
Excluding the typically exaggerated claims on both, sizewise, 4200 lbs is the absolute limit for gw's and at least 2300+ lbs
(lolong) for crocs. These are the present known limitations, of course that can change in the future.


 
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United States Pckts Offline
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(01-18-2015, 09:40 PM)'chaos' Wrote:
(01-18-2015, 12:56 PM)'Vodmeister' Wrote:
(01-10-2015, 04:07 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Here is a verified predation of a Large croc on a tiny Bull shark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...odile.html

The witness states the amount of struggle the tiny shark was able to put up on the much larger croc and how the croc had to work hard to finally kill the shark. Imagine a 16-20 ft long GWS 4000-6000lbs.
Its just not reasonable that a croc would even attempt on such a large animal let a lone be strong enough to hold on to a animal double its own weight. 



 

A 5.5 m (18 ft) great white shark would not weigh 4000 lbs and certainly nowhere near 6000 lbs. If a large recorded 6.0 m (19.7 ft) great white weighed 4200 lbs, then using the square cube law, it scales an 18 ft crocodile down to 3204 lbs.

A 6.1 m (20 ft) saltwater crocodile on the other hand, would weigh approximately 2200 lbs.


 
Excluding the typically exaggerated claims on both, sizewise, 4200 lbs is the absolute limit for gw's and at least 2300+ lbs
(lolong) for crocs. These are the present known limitations, of course that can change in the future.


 

 


I think its more likely that there are larger GWS than that. Its the ocean, its 70% of our world. Extremely hard to weigh or even catch such massive animals and the doc this year where they saw colossos then they saw one that was even larger than her. Just shows that there are always bigger fish in the sea. I am sure the same can  be said for Crocs, but the habitat they reside in is way to small for compared to the open ocean. The ocean is just so vast and we know now that GWS live in extremely deep areas so the chances of even larger ones out there is much more likely than a larger croc which has to come to the surface for air and must bask on land to regain energy. So the odds of seeing it would be far more likely.
 
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-20-2015, 12:39 AM by Pckts )

While the claim of 7000 lbs is probably a bit outrageous, here is the largest photo'd GWS I have seen.

*This image is copyright of its original author


Another interesting tid bit is that sharks bodies are mostly comprised of Water so once they are removed from water they shrivel up and dehydrate apparently.
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-20-2015, 06:02 AM by Pckts )

(01-18-2015, 01:00 PM)'Vodmeister' Wrote:
(01-11-2015, 08:43 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Questions:

Which have the strongest bite, in absolute and relative therms??? Some says the crocodile, some others says the white shark.

Can anyone put data to back up?

Did crocodile skin can protect it from the bite of a big shark? This also apply in the other case too?

Too many statements from both sides, but I only see circumstantial evidence.

Interesting topic. Gregory M. Erickson and colleagues put all 23 living crocodilian species through an unprecedented bite test. The "winners"—saltwater crocodiles—slammed their jaws shut with 3,700 pounds per square inch (psi), or 16,460 newtons, of bite force."


"Bite forceA 2007 study from the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia, used CT scans of a shark's skull and computer models to measure the shark's maximum bite force. The study reveals the forces and behaviors its skull is adapted to handle and resolves competing theories about its feeding behavior.[sup][39][/sup] In 2008, a team of scientists led by Stephen Wroe conducted an experiment to determine the great white shark's jaw power and findings indicated that a specimen more than 6.1 m (20 ft) long could exert a bite force of over 18,000 newtons (4,000 lbf)."

But I don't think they have actually been able to measure a GWS bite force while they have measured croc bite force. But either way, they both obviously possess enough power to kill any reasonably sized animal.


The largest croc ever weighed was 2,370lbs
The largest great white weighed was over 7,000lbs.... allegedly.

The one I posted was the 7,ooo lber and here is a 5,500 lber
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Great_white_shark_caught_in_Seven_Star_Lake_in_1997.jpg" class="max-img-size" alt="" title="">
*This image is copyright of its original author

Great white shark caught off Hualien County, Taiwan, on 14 May 1997: It was reportedly almost 7 m (23 ft) in length with a mass of 2,500 kg (5,500 lb).[28]


So we are talking about a animal more than double the size of the croc, at minimum.
 
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-21-2015, 02:03 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

It is pretty strange that 5500 pounds GWS has the largest recorded jaw of all time.

So it is pretty much like the case of the big cats, the heaviest specimen doesn't necessarily have the largest skull.
 
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United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 01-22-2015, 05:46 AM by Pckts )

(01-21-2015, 02:02 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: It is pretty strange that 5500 pounds GWS has the largest recorded jaw of all time.

So it is pretty much like the case of the big cats, the heaviest specimen doesn't necessarily have the largest skull.
 

 


I'm not even going to pretend like I have any idea about that, I have done far too little research on them. Don't they figure the Megaladon size off jaw size though?

I didn't see the 7,100lb GWS jaw size, so I am not sure its recorded, Did you?

 
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Canada Vodmeister Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-22-2015, 09:50 AM by Vodmeister )

The 7,000 lbs great white shark was never actually officially recorded, there's about as much evidence to support it as there is to support the idea of the 23 feet 4,000 lbs saltwater crocodile in India.

However, with recent restoration of saltwater crocodile habitat and reduced poaching, the number of large crocodiles is increasing, especially in Odisha. Recently, Guinness has accepted a claim of a 7.1-metre (23 ft), 2,000-kg (4,400-lb) male saltwater crocodile living within Bhitarkanika Park in Odisha.[28]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_crocodile#Size

However:
The largest confirmed saltwater crocodile on record was 6.3 m (20.7 ft) long, and weighed over 1,360 kg (3,000 lbs).[18]

Salties aren't anywhere near as big today as they were in the past because of excessive hunting of the largest. There are a lot of accounts of supposed 23 feet, 28 feet or even 30 feet long crocodiles out there. None reliable enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_c...crocodiles

Largest saltwater crocodile: 20.7 ft in length, 3000 lbs in mass.
Largest great white shark: 19.7 ft in length, 4200 lbs in mass.

Salties on average tend to be about a foot longer than great whites, who in return are about 50% heavier ("double the weight" is an overstatement).

I'd back the great white at natural sizes about 7/10, at parity it could go either way, it depends on the environment.

 
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United States Pckts Offline
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I am more inclided to believe the weights for those GWS that are photoed and weighed "allegedly"
They should be accepted I think, it is far more likely to see a larger great white simply because the ocean is 100s of times the size with 1000s of different animals to prey on. Sharks don't need to rest on land, they can swim without any body ever hearing or seeing about them. Crocs must congragate together, they need to prey in the same places, so if there was ever another larger croc than lolong lets say, you would must likely see and hear about it. (there was a rumor of one, but only one)
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United States Paleosuchus Offline
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The original photograph appears to be photoshop to me, and isn't anywhere in Wood(1983) like it is claimed to be. Of course i can be proven wrong here, but i'm fairly certain of my statements
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Canada tatsuslava Offline
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#25

(01-10-2015, 04:07 AM)Pckts Wrote: Here is a verified predation of a Large croc on a tiny Bull shark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...odile.html

The witness states the amount of struggle the tiny shark was able to put up on the much larger croc and how the croc had to work hard to finally kill the shark. Imagine a 16-20 ft long GWS 4000-6000lbs.
Its just not reasonable that a croc would even attempt on such a large animal let a lone be strong enough to hold on to a animal double its own weight. 

I think anyone with some knowledge of marine biology can realize its not a shark bite, and its only a 3.5 meter crocodile (not very big). A shark even a large one has trouble biting through an entire turtle shell, so it would be impossible for it to bite through an animal with such thick hide and neck muscles so cleanly. Also great whites don't live near the Zambesi its too warm for them.
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Italy Ngala Offline
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Welcome to the forum @tatsuslava.
"Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin." C. Darwin
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Venezuela epaiva Online
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@tatsuslava

Welcome to the Forum
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Canada Antiochus Offline
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(01-11-2015, 07:13 PM)Pckts Wrote:
GrizzlyClaws\ dateline='\'1420922837' Wrote:
Pckts\ dateline='\'1420844389' Wrote: Here you see a large croc which was decapatated by a GWS (most likely)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...frica.html

Showing that a GWS would have no problem at all bitting through croc hide. Which would be no surprise as they have far more sharp teeth with a more powerful bite built for slicing. 


 

Was this a Nile crocodile?

I heard that the Nile crocodiles from South Africa are smaller than those live close to the equator.

 



I'm not sure. But I doubt it would matter the type of croc, the shark is going to weigh twice its size, with the most powerful bite in the animal kingdom and teeth already proven to sheer right through croc hide. Thats why when people were doing the animal vs animal debate of croc vs walrus I was picking the walrus. Double the size of the croc but backed with 6+'' of blubber which I think is a better defense compared to leather skin of a croc. Walrus are able to with stand stabs from 2 foot long tusks which I am sure would prove fatal to a croc. But sharks can tear chunks off with ease, so I doubt any skin could with stand a GWS bite. 

how biased can you get with your rationalizations???  No, sharks cant "tear chunks off with ease" they need to shake violently at seals to rip of chunks of meat, not a sign of an animal that can "tear chunks off with ease" a shark's teeth is BUILT for slicing through fat, NOT muscle and armour! There are crocodiles who took large calibre bullets with some minor scarring.  Sharks cant cut through strong muscle and thick hide "like hot butter", nor do they have the strongest bites in the animal kingdom, their jaw muscles are relatedly weak for a creature of their size.

Most large crocodiles live in swamps with muddy water, that's not easy to look for, so to use that as an excuse that the idea that the 7000 pound shark report is more reliable is absurd and fallacious and a double standard.

  your welcome for clearing up your misconceptions Pckts! 

I mean it seems you refuse to believe about the limitations of sharks no matter what
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