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[peter]

(07-15-2019, 03:28 AM)RakeshMondal Wrote: @peter 

Hey peter. I saw your post about Katherine in the other thread. This is a misunderstanding from Katherine along with you, mainly the person who PMed you. Btw, i really want to know who told you this because i cant think of anybody who would follow Katherine so closely?

This isn't a smear campaign against wildfact. First off, Katherine wasn't talking about you, not sure if you read the full thing on the forum she posted (quora), but she mentioned a name in particular and quoted him. 
Why would she say wildfact? Look.
Quoting her:
"But, since you brought it up, heres a few of your comments on 'Wildanimal Warfare' or whatever the site is called, they are all the same"
She mentioned wildfact because she got it all confused, since 'they are all the same', she thinks wildfact is just another site with fanboys. She actually meant wildanimalwarfare because that is where somebody questioned her credibility and whos posts she was quoting.
She was not particularly attacking wildfact or being disappointed like what you said. It was actually another forum where somebody questioned her credibility she got it mixed up. I hope you understand.

She did talk a bit about fights. The animals weren't really hers but her mentors cats. She saw some free for all fights and some dead animals, stating even having a video of it. She also made it clear that she favors the lion because she thinks they are very aggressive, although she did say tigers are very vengeful and have "controlled aggression".

MONDAL

Thanks for the response. Regarding the points you made.

PM - It wasn't Cooper. Wildfact has about 900 members. My guess is quite many visit different sites. 

QUORA - I didn't visit Quora. I only read the post I referred to in my previous post. In that post, Kathlee talked about Wildfact. I was surprised about her accusation, as she got a nice welcome over here. Furthermore, I didn't see posts in which her credibility was challenged. Although a bit disappointed, I decided against a follow-up in the trainer thread. The reason is I only read one post. Assuming there was more to it, I bought a fishing-rod. 

FANBOYS - Your response cleared a few things, but not everything. Kathlee was treated with respect and got a lot of questions. For some reason, she lost interest and decided for a discussion with people she later described as fanboys. When she understood she had made a mistake, frustration took over. The result was deposited in front of our door. According to you, the accusation was a result of a misunderstanding. In my book, it was a result of a lack of reading (referring to the sites she selected) and quite a few slops. Slops that ultimately resulted in bad publicity for Wildfact, one of the few sites where discussions about lions, tigers and fights are not encouraged. I'll consider it collateral damage for now, but a correction would be appreciated anyhow.   

BIG CAT TRAINERS - What I wrote about trainers and big cats used in circuses is based on interviews. Most of these took many hours, at times even days. What I remember most is big cats are thinking animals. This is why they get bored quickly. As bored cats can get tricky, trainers often change routines. All trainers I talked to were very informed, clever, stable and precise. I never saw anything even close to mistakes. They can't afford to be sloppy, as it could have consequences. I liked Kathlee's first posts, but was surprised at what followed (see above). Doesn't add up.

FIGHTS - If trainers have mixed act with male lions and male tigers, they have to be wary. If, say, 5 male lions and 5 male tigers get into an all-out, chances are the tigers will suffer. The reason is lions fight in groups, whereas tigers fight on their own. This means every tiger has to face more than one lion at some stage. In a one-on-one, the outcome is unclear. All trainers who had seen serious fights told me the outcome depends on the individual. Size is a factor, but so is character. They didn't see specific species-related abilities. In their opinion, the outcome of a fight between a male lion and a male tiger or a fight between a big cat and a bear of similar size and age is close to unpredictable. I take their word for it. 

I also interviewed the director of a facility where big cats were trained. He was related to the Hagenbeck family, had worked with big cats all his life and saw more than all trainers combined. In his experience, male lions often initiate fights. Tigers, however, were a bit more able, whereas brown bears are more unpredictable. In general terms, he more or less confirmed the opinions of the trainers I interviewed. 

Trainers nowadays often have their own cats. They told me tigers, although they bond to a degree, stay on their own. Male lions, like their wild relatives, tend to form alliances. In spite of the internal struggle for power, they quickly learn to operate as a team. Lions fight animals they consider a threat whenever possible. A trainer with a mixed act, for this reason, has to be well-informed at all times. 

INTERVIEWS - I'm not the only poster who interviewed trainers. Big Bonns, a poster at AVA, talked to a trainer who worked with lions, tigers and brown bears. In his experience, brown bears, often a bit heavier than the cats, easily overpowered and outwrestled an average-sized lion or tiger. A surprise attack, however, would result in a dead bear. Tigers in particular had to be watched closely. I heard similar stories in facilities. Some of these were confirmed by vets.

Today, trainers often buy their cats when they're young. In the recent past, trainers often bought adults. Those who had no cats (transients) often replaced trainers unable to perform as a result of an injury.  

There used to be a fundamental difference between those who prepared big cats and bears not used to humans ('breakers'), those who teached them to perform ('trainers') and those who used them in acts ('performers'). The first two saw a lot more than performers. Same for trainers who replaced injured collegues.

During a training session or a show, performers are assisted by those who prepared or trained the animals or experienced transients. When problems erupt, they are the ones who restore peace. Tony Hughes had quite a reputation as an assistent. One of the Chipperfields said he owed his life to him. When I interviewed him, he assisted a woman performing with lions. She wasn't interested in an interview, but Tony was. His department was lions, but he had worked with other big cats and bears as well. Tony had seen many serious fights. In his experience, the outcome of a fight between similar-sized big cats was unpredictable. Parts of the interview were posted in the trainer thread. Reply