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Othawa Pride
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 (05-10-2024, 04:53 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Both Ximhungwe cubs are accounted for. They killed the Nkuhuma ym ?? 
1/4 NYM sired by N.Avocas.
The Talamati young male sired by the S8 male is also missing IIRC and there were talks about PCM being in the area where the Talamati lioness and female sub were seen, so besides the Othawa there's also this other issue...
(This is the one that's already been seen not the one that hasn't)
Would appear that there's been a confirmed sighting of the other Othawa female. Hopefully her sister (in the post) isn't too far from where she was the other day and they're able to reunite.  *This image is copyright of its original author
I'm still worried about them, not being able to find one another for a few weeks is very weird.
They say the other one was seen close to where this one above was and now this same female is seen by Savanna again, contact calling... I'm not confident these guides can tell them apart, I think they might be seeing the same sub ( the smaller one ). The bigger one hasn't been seen since forever. My fear is that the bigger Othawa has been dead for almost a month and the guides are "pretending" she isn't because they didn't see the PCM killing her, only chasing. First news of them being split only came out weeks after it happened. Then they didn't say what split them, then days later said "other lions" split them, then said the second Othawa was seen not far from where the smaller one was ( I doubt it was the second, bigger one ), then now the smaller one goes to Ottawa Property, gets chased by the PCM and is again seen alone today in Savanna. If this turns out to be a "conspiracy" I'll apologize, but it seems to me the bigger Othawa is likely dead for almost a month now. They live in a small area and the smaller one is contact calling all the time but they can't reunite for almost a month? And the smaller one goes to Ottawa Property in Northern Singita, something she has never done since their mother died? Yeah I don't buy it, that they are coincidentally split for all this time.  (05-13-2024, 09:43 PM)Mapokser Wrote: I'm still worried about them, not being able to find one another for a few weeks is very weird. This is my worry now too, and devastating news if true. Nobody ever said it was the PCM did they, or is that now confirmed? It was about a month ago that Skorro left too right? Sorry... I want to like your post, but I am not going to like a post that basically means the end of the Othawa pride... 
I think we should be carefull not to start any rumours.
They are still young lions living in hostile territory and both are keeping their heads low. So them being separated longer is a not that odd. It would also be a huge blunder if for an entire month multiple people misidentified the same lioness. The reserves don't have any stakes about pretending lions are still alive. However, it is always possible that one of the lionesses was killed later. We have to be realistic though. We have been so happy with those two surviving that we kind of lost track that as a pride, the Othawas are in trouble. The Ximhungwe pride have taken a lot of their territory, have the protection of two strong males and are well ahead if it comes to raising cubs. Unless some mayor tragedy befalls that pride. Its only a matter of time before the Othawas are pushed out completely. (05-14-2024, 12:12 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think we should be carefull not to start any rumours. The realistic part is right on. It'd just be a shame for them to have made it to almost that age, and then...... The longer there are no pictures together however, the more of us will assume this is the situation.
It was mentioned that the missing Othawa's tracks were seen - would've hoped the guides would be able to identify how long ago those tracks were, because if they're fresh (AND if they're not from the Othawa we've seen so far), it would indicate she's alive...
I do agree that everything is just speculation for now... I think soon enough we'll reach a conclusion as to what happened.
@T_Ferguson It was never said which lions chased them, but Manghenis have been in Singita for a long time and I think they would say it was the Ximhungwe if it have been them. I'm guessing PCM because I think they want to "protect" the PCM's reputation, not saying "yeah our resident males chased more lions, the beloved Othawa, only one is has been seen so far, but we think both are fine."
PCM have just killed 1/4 NK male and Chela recently, and in both occasions there were huge discussions about who the culprits were and hate towards the PCM ( who already had a bad rep from killing other beloved lions like Tsalala, Nhenha, Othawa and Mangheni subs... ) Just my theory though. @Duco Ndona I've been clear that this is just my take, I'm not saying I've some special info nor anything so it's not exactly "starting rumours". To my knowledge, the bigger Othawa was only, supposedly, seen once after they split almost a month ago. Savanna said so a few days ago "the other one was seen not far from where the first one was". Now, can whoever saw the supposedly second Othawa correctly identify her as the second sub? I find it difficult to believe. Guides often get adult male lions misidentified all the time. Recently ST Nkhulu was filmed mating and the guide said it was Tumbela. LM Gijima was seeing eating and the guide said it was a Nkhulu... Hell when Nhenha and NK fought the PCM and went missing, few days later a guide posted NK saying "I've found Nhenha". These guides follow and keep track of all animals, they are probably not as good at identifying lions as lion fans. If they fail with adult males all the time, can they tell 2 subadult females apart so easily, with absolute confidence in a single sighting? I don't think so. Btw the smaller Othawa isn't "low profile", in both sightings of her by Savanna since the split, she has been contact calling all the time. Even nomads roaming the entire Sabi Sands can find each other much quicker while injured ( see the Kambulas ), but somehow the Othawas who only roam Western Sector can't find each other in a month? While supposedly not even being injured? When, before, they have split multiple times and quickly and easily reunited? 
@Mapokser i dont think reserve wants to "protect" PCMs from bad rep or idk, these are just lions doing normal lion things, its not like tourist will stop coming because resident males killed other lions lol.
I dont think 99% of tourists who visit these reserves even follow or know about lions there. Also, I think its very unlikely that PCMs harmed Othawas.
@Tr1x24 why would they hide the information for a month then?
Yeah this probably wouldn't affect them money wise, but they'll have countless fans messaging them and hating on the PCM in all of their posts, which they wouldn't like. First they hid the information for 2 weeks or so, then said "other lions" split them. Why not name the PCM, if according to you, they don't care? When Ximhungwe killed Sassy, they told us it was them, when Ximhungwe chased them multiple times before, they said the Ximhungwe did it, every time the Manghenis kill or chase someone, they say they did it. Why not name the culprits this time? And wdym by "doubt the PCM harmed them"? They have just chased the smaller one 2 days ago, only reason she's alive is because she ran fast enough. (05-14-2024, 02:11 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 why would they hide the information for a month then? I don't necessarily believe what I'm about to recount, but I do remember a rumour mentioning that the Ximunghwe were the ones who initially pursued them, and then the PCMs joined in later on. This remark/comment was subsequently removed by moderators on another platform, no idea if that was because it was misinformation or whether it was an attempt to stifle information. The source didn't seem to be particularly untrustworthy to me... also worth mentioning that there is something about this situation that still hasn't been revealed, as @criollo2mil mentioned. Again, take this with a pinch of salt. I don't want to peddle misinformation or spread unnecessary speculation. If this is indeed all an overblown conspiracy theory, it's absolutely hilarious how seriously we have taken this. (05-14-2024, 02:33 AM)Vengeous Wrote:(05-14-2024, 02:11 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 why would they hide the information for a month then? If that account is in fact true, then the "reveal" doesn't really need to happen at this point. Some of us take things like this probably too seriously for what are wild lions. It's just sad that the reality is these 2 girls should have died long ago at this point, and the same fate is waiting for Ridge's offspring as well. In a very small area, with 2 very aggressive males, and 2 very aggressive prides. Yes, all rumor and speculation, but quite truthfully, that may be all we ever have at this point.
So, not sure how many people here are on the Wild Lions of Africa FB group, but here's Joanne Stewart's latest update:
"I know a lot of people have been concerned about the missing Othawa lioness. I have seen a lot of speculation going on about this. About three weeks ago the girls were chased by other lions. As you know one has been seen a few times now and she’s safe. The other Othawa with the clipped ear is the one that hadn’t been seen. I was given information that she was seen on Friday morning in Singita on the border with Dulini and was seen again tonight around the same area. I believe this information to be true. Hopefully pictures will be posted soon and the girls will reunite" When she mentions Dulini sharing a border with Singita, I assume she's referring to the Exeter Leadwood property adjacent to Singita (which was bought by Dulini). She claims this information came from trusted people, but let's wait and see.  (05-14-2024, 02:11 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 why would they hide the information for a month then? Please don’t turn this into an angry argument. Please debate in a way that flows well in a thread. Not everyone is lying or a conspiracy. It’s obviously a big mystery. Best thing to do is get a timeline for the girls and other lions in the area. Get a collection of their pics and dates and try to plot by day and area where the lions are. Sometimes sightings aren’t reported on till people get back home from their safaris. If this is too off topic let me know and I’ll delete |
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