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Othawa Pride
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  (02-20-2023, 05:33 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @1ofCourage I'd hardly call what happened to Nhenha "being caught off-guard" though, Nkuhuma and him were loudly roaring on PCM's territory, which was why they got attacked. PCM were close by, they heard their roars like 2 days before or something, they unleashed the challenged and got the worse of it. Quote:Thing with adult males is that they are fast, but subadults cannot outrun males, they may outrun females @Mapokser I watched in a video where it was said that lionesses are faster runners than lions. Maybe the problem with Ottawas is their ages unless the video a watched is wrong. (02-20-2023, 06:34 AM)afortich Wrote:(02-20-2023, 05:33 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @1ofCourage I'd hardly call what happened to Nhenha "being caught off-guard" though, Nkuhuma and him were loudly roaring on PCM's territory, which was why they got attacked. PCM were close by, they heard their roars like 2 days before or something, they unleashed the challenged and got the worse of it. Maybe adult females are faster, IDK, but subadults, not even 2yo, are definitely not. Everytime the Othawas got attacked they "left" someone else behind to get killed so the other could escape. First 1/3 Jr's mother's cubs was killed by PCM, then Jr's mother herself was killed by Bboys, then Auntie by Bboys too, then Jr's mother's daughter remaining daughter by PCM, then her son killed by PCM, then Sassy died, then 1/3 Sassy's daughter killed by NK. Only occasions where they escaped without a causality were when Ximhungwes chased them but Tumbela was with them so who knows what happened. When Gingerella chased 3 of them, caught them but didn't know what to do ( probably too inexperienced to attack 3 subadults together ), and now where the two almost 2yo Othawas outrun 2 pregnant Ximgungwes. Everytime a male that wasn't Tumbela chased the Othawas, one Othawa died. (02-20-2023, 07:27 AM)Mapokser Wrote:(02-20-2023, 06:34 AM)afortich Wrote:(02-20-2023, 05:33 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @1ofCourage I'd hardly call what happened to Nhenha "being caught off-guard" though, Nkuhuma and him were loudly roaring on PCM's territory, which was why they got attacked. PCM were close by, they heard their roars like 2 days before or something, they unleashed the challenged and got the worse of it. That's what I said, maybe "their ages" (too young) could be a factor. Additionally, all the examples you gave may also have the surprise factor that didn't let them run in time, and the junior mothers didn't run because was trying to defend the offspring. 
Lionesses are faster than male lions. So outrunning those shouldnt be much of an issue.
The deaths in the pride happened mostly in the first few weeks. Which suggests they were more due to inexperience or their group being to large. I doubt everyone just stopped chasing the pride all of an sudden. Infact the Ximhungwes did so just last week. So its more reasonable that they found some tactics that work for them.  (02-20-2023, 05:47 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 Old female's cubs were all killed, these 2 are Sassy's daughters, they will turn 2 next month. It's very obvious, the huge difference in facial size in a profile photo in one of the Othawa Pride Groups. The person claiming so vehemently that they are all Sassy's, is the same person who said Harry Belly could not possibly have been younger than 15 when he died, probably 16, at one point! I would take what he says with a grain of salt. Just saying with no disrespect. In addition, the last one killed looked like a littermate of the smaller girl in one picture, just with 'normal ears.' Now, if they are all Sassy's, then two, not one of them, is smaller in size than the taller/leaner girl (the one resembling Limpy more). Now, I'm not indicating they are from different litters 100%, but that we shouldn't assume that they aren't. Right now, potentially, they could all be Sassy's, probably sired by different males (all 3 of her girls were sired by different males it seems, judging by the looks of the last two). Or, two could be Sassy's and one Junior's mom (in which we have the strange case of two, the one last killed and the smaller girl, of them looking VERY alike---so indeed, it could be two from the younger litter....or just two 'runts' of Sassy's sired by Skorro. In a past photo, the one killed looks to be near intermediate in height between the other two.... Hard to say, but Floppy Eared Girl could just be learning her head down....or there is a difference. What is clear is that the two on the right and left look very similar with a slight color/ear shape difference. Another reason to believe that they could all be Sassy's is that the other litter was several months younger, so they were slower, less agile and capable hunters to survive adequately at less than 1.5 when orphaned. If this last smaller girl is Junior's mom's offspring, then she is doing amazing, lasting longer than any of her littermates. She was orphaned at less than a year and a half!  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
@Cath2020 don't get me wrong, I'd love for the smaller one to be the daughter of the older female so she may have a chance to pass her genes too and the pride may continue through more than just Sassy ( though having a younger female makes it harder for them to make it so there's also that ). But 1/3 of Sassy's litter was a runt, there's a photo of the 3 as cubs and one was much smaller.
Sassy was a small female and the fathers aren't big either so it'd not be a surprise to have a runt, still I thought it was confirmed they are all Sassy's as I was told it was what everybody was saying on FB. Though I was also told it's said there that Othawa Male is Rasta's grandson but I've no idea how that can be determined, Rasta almost looked the same as PB, how can they determine it was him who sired that female? And rangers were all saying the cubs sired in 2006-2007 were all Makhulu's, there's even a report the other Mapogo killed a litter of Makhulu's cubs because of it. If Floppy Ears isn't Sassy's she'd turn 2 in may only. But isn't a way to know that? There's some footage and photos of all cubs, couldn't someone ID Floppy Ears, comparing her whiskers to those of Sassy's runt daughter?
Ok I'm bad at it but I tried to ID who is Floppy Ear Othawa using photos from this thread, is she Sassy's daughter or Jr's sister?
Photos to the left are Floppy Ear as a subadult. To the right the photos of Sassy's and Jr mother's cubs shared on page 29. First I think 2/3 Sassy's cubs can be excluded as potentially being Floppy Ear. Floppy Ear and Sassy's first cub:  *This image is copyright of its original author Floppy Ear and Sassy's second cub:  *This image is copyright of its original author Now the third cub, is she Floppy Ear? Floppy Ear and Sassy's third cub:  *This image is copyright of its original author From the other side, Floppy Ear and Sassy's third cub again:  *This image is copyright of its original author Now, Floppy Ear and 1/3 Jr's sibling:  *This image is copyright of its original author From the other side, Floppy Ear and Jr's sibling again:  *This image is copyright of its original author So what do you guys think? Is she Sassy's daughter or maybe indeed the younger female?  (02-22-2023, 04:52 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Ok I'm bad at it but I tried to ID who is Floppy Ear Othawa using photos from this thread, is she Sassy's daughter or Jr's sister? Ik it does matter and we’ll never know who the second girls mother is unless we have pics of all 5 girls as cubs and compare whisker patterns from then on BUT to me all of the females come from the same male correct Makhulu Magogo but som say dreadlocks Rasta and pretty boy sired some of the other 3 original girls and kinda ironic that the female that was killed by hyenas at a younger age was the only one to have her bloodline live on even tho they are all related
@Ttimemarti We do have ID photos of all 6 cubs. I think if the smaller female makes it, eventually someone will ID her with 100% confidence.
As for who was their grandfather/great-grandfather, I do believe it was Makhulu because the others were younger at the time and Makhulu dominated the mating to a point it was reported they believed he sired most of the Mapogos cubs and weren't certain if the other Mapogos were fathers by 2008.
@Mwk85 I'm happy he is back and they are all alive and well. I hope this time he finally learned his lesson and stay away from Ximhungwes, I've lost count of how many times he escaped either Birminghams or PCM. I know he has instincts to hang out with adult females due to all the benefits that comes with it but he must be aware that he isn't in condition to do so, he's only risking his life.
Hopefully he stays with his daughters and helps them. (02-25-2023, 10:38 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Ttimemarti We do have ID photos of all 6 cubs. I think if the smaller female makes it, eventually someone will ID her with 100% confidence. The rangers can only see what goes on in the day at a specific time that constitutes about 5% of their lives, mating habits, etc... Lots of additional daytime, and (probably most) at night are not accounted for. Males cannot keep mating day in and day out. In a coalition, there is sometimes one male that keeps dominating the others, but in a very large one of 4 or more, it is impossible to keep all one's brothers at bay to dominate all the females constantly. Maybe in a duo or to some extent trio (for a limited time). Plus, the females are going to have it in their best interests to mate with all the members for a spell to benefit their offspring. These reserves who say such things never conduct scientific genetic tests to determine the distribution of paternity as it pertains to lion populations in Sabi Sands for a large coalition, to discover any trends, insights, interesting interpretations, etc... None of the offspring really looked like him (keep in mind very few actually survived). I believe most of his could have been killed off because of too many prides/fighting/takeovers...even amongst themselves. Oddly, the 2 Othawa males who left deep into Kruger did not resemble him whatsoever. But, then again, we do not know, maybe their looks would have significantly changed as adult males full of testosterone. |
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