There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Othawa Pride seen today, along with Skorro jr Note: the pride's only male cub is sitting right next to Skorro jr, which is great to see. Vid credit: Dulini
(06-04-2022, 07:15 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Othowas having a blast
The young male is growing a nice mane, he should be only 1 year and 4 months old
In 2005 with the arrival of the Nhlanguleni male, the pride was
split in two:
1 Group of 2 adult females, 2 male sub adults b apr 2003, 1 female sub adult b dec 2003
1 group of 2 adult females (one with 1/2 an ear, or floppy ear) that had 7 cubs with the Nhlanguleni male (1 was lost): 3 female cubs and 3 male cubs) b2005 Source is Leopard Hills
(08-02-2022, 01:39 AM)Mapokser Wrote: New video from the Kruger Park Sightings with the lion they claim is Othawa Jr:
Not Othawa.
I know you don't believe it is him and I'm very inclined to agree with that, but since a big channel is claiming it's him and we don't have an absolute proof I'll wait, maybe someday we can get whiskers comparisons.
People who don't care about bloodlines: No need to comment, just ignore this post.
People who do care: Gingerella is like the Holy Grail of legendary bloodlines from an enthusiast perspective. So many lions have unknown or questionable lineage. She's one of the few lions we can trace back several generations and every branch of the tree is legendary. Othawa Pride, Mapogo (Sparta x West Street), Majingalane (Unkown origins), and Matimba (Birmingham x Skybed).
If she has cubs with Nhena the Last BBoy, then that's doubling down on B Pride and adding in the B Males. If she has sons with NYM, then that's everything from Nhena plus the Nkhuma Pride. Was NYM's mom a Matimba daughter? If so, that's triple B Pride, double Matimba.
I don't know what's better, having two different Matimbas in your bloodline, or having Hairy Belly on both sides. If you're going to inbreed, then HB's genes are the cream of the crop. One of the healthiest specimens of all time. Probably would have lived even longer if not for having to go nomadic as a senior citizen.
I couldn't help but geek out a little at the thought. DM me if anyone else wants to continue the discussion.
People who don't care about bloodlines: No need to comment, just ignore this post.
People who do care: Gingerella is like the Holy Grail of legendary bloodlines from an enthusiast perspective. So many lions have unknown or questionable lineage. She's one of the few lions we can trace back several generations and every branch of the tree is legendary. Othawa Pride, Mapogo (Sparta x West Street), Majingalane (Unkown origins), and Matimba (Birmingham x Skybed).
If she has cubs with Nhena the Last BBoy, then that's doubling down on B Pride and adding in the B Males. If she has sons with NYM, then that's everything from Nhena plus the Nkhuma Pride. Was NYM's mom a Matimba daughter? If so, that's triple B Pride, double Matimba.
I don't know what's better, having two different Matimbas in your bloodline, or having Hairy Belly on both sides. If you're going to inbreed, then HB's genes are the cream of the crop. One of the healthiest specimens of all time. Probably would have lived even longer if not for having to go nomadic as a senior citizen.
I couldn't help but geek out a little at the thought. DM me if anyone else wants to continue the discussion.
If its caring for bloodlines, than you’d want her to mate with PCMs (of most Likely candidates). That would increase the gene diversity and not weaken it. To stay within the Birmingham Bloodline will not be best…regarless of our feelings about named lineages.
I agree, Inbreeding is becoming a bit of concern. Perhaps they will transplant some more distant males to Sabi Sands in the future to dilute things a bit.
08-04-2022, 02:41 AM( This post was last modified: 08-04-2022, 02:49 AM by Tr1x24 )
(08-03-2022, 11:33 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I agree, Inbreeding is becoming a bit of concern. Perhaps they will transplant some more distant males to Sabi Sands in the future to dilute things a bit.
Dont think so, its normal that big, successful and long lasting coalitions like Majingilanes, Matimbas and Bboys sire many generations off offspring and in different prides, in one area, but 90% or so of their males offspring will move on and eventually another males from different areas will come.
Which male offspring from Majingilanes, Matimbas and Bboys stayed, become territorial and sired cubs in Sabi Sands?
1. OM, who is now dead and only has 1 surviving cub atm.
2. Nkuhuma male looks like another who might stay and sire cubs, although he will be lone male in few years, so his potential offspring is also at question here.
I hope you get what im saying, out off all Majingilanes, Matimbas and Bboys male offspring, we only have 1 their cub alive now in Sabi Sands, sired by OM.
And we have completley new bloodline now in Avocas, Ndhzengas, PC males, Kruger/Torchwood males and now new Gijima males. Only Tumbelas share the same genes as Matimbas and Bboys, but thats just in one pride.
Also for future, another big Bboys offspring in Kambulas are also on their way out of Sabi Sands, 2 are already in Kruger, other 4 will prob also leave as they started to navigate east of Sabi Sands.
If we go further , next in line are 2 Talamatis sired by Avocas, with strong coalitions in the other areas of Sabi Sands, its very unlikely they will be able to establish themselves here also.
So as we see, males rearly stay in their natal area, its more of and exception, nature balance herself.
I agree, luckily the usual patern of new males arriving into Sabi Sands from Timbavati trhough Manyeleti has stopped for now (only 2 of Black Dam young males visited briefly some months ago, iirc) and new influx of males is now from southern direction (Ndzhengas, Plain Camps, Gijimas if they establish themselves after all). Sabi Sands is quite full so hopefully new generation of males born thre will indeed move off unlike Tintswalos in Manyeleti. Othawa pride, to stay on topic, and its neighbouroughing prides/individuals has provided some opportunities, but it being bit isolated area, to get there is nto a given for wandering males and they are more likely to find ooportunities elsewhere first (northeastern Sabi Sands, southern Manyeleti and possibly adjacent area in Kruger have rather smaller coalitions (of 1 often) so any males having numbers and confident to challenge for a takeover have their chances there or rather could easily lure some females off existing prides creating another breakaways. Skorro Jr. is boxed in but likely won't have influx of new potential challengers (outside of native Sabi Sands young males perhaps) and will have the same troubling neighbours for a while. Or not we never know what will happen.
(08-05-2022, 04:32 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: I agree, luckily the usual patern of new males arriving into Sabi Sands from Timbavati trhough Manyeleti has stopped for now (only 2 of Black Dam young males visited briefly some months ago, iirc) and new influx of males is now from southern direction (Ndzhengas, Plain Camps, Gijimas if they establish themselves after all). Sabi Sands is quite full so hopefully new generation of males born thre will indeed move off unlike Tintswalos in Manyeleti. Othawa pride, to stay on topic, and its neighbouroughing prides/individuals has provided some opportunities, but it being bit isolated area, to get there is nto a given for wandering males and they are more likely to find ooportunities elsewhere first (northeastern Sabi Sands, southern Manyeleti and possibly adjacent area in Kruger have rather smaller coalitions (of 1 often) so any males having numbers and confident to challenge for a takeover have their chances there or rather could easily lure some females off existing prides creating another breakaways. Skorro Jr. is boxed in but likely won't have influx of new potential challengers (outside of native Sabi Sands young males perhaps) and will have the same troubling neighbours for a while. Or not we never know what will happen.
Very well said
I hope that the young males currently in Sabi Sands dont stick around, such as Kambulas, Nkuhumas and Talamatis, as this wont be good for any coalition since they will all be outnumbered. Also they will cause a lot of imbreeding.
Well, there are still combinations that would be ok at least initially, like young Nkuhumas taking over Mhangenis (Kambulas would be bad, but the younger 4 seems to be heading in opposite direction and the Kambula 1 and 2, even if together as well as Talamati could have problem to assert themselves over Mhangenis, Nkuhuma+Styx could not do it; ofc Mhagenis might be fewer then and all sort of things can happen). Nkuhumas with Mhangenis would just mean more lions carrying blood of all/most major coalition of Sabi Sands in the past (Mapogos, Majingilanes, Birminghams,.. and now Avocas) which would make inbreeding likely in next generation if there would be more and more individuals next to each other sharing more or less the same paternal ancestors (ofc each individual would inherit different mix of genetics even among full siblings). If such a scenario would actually happen though, assuming they would still be 5 strong (can even add some buddies along the way, unlikely but possible) they would be content with just one pride for long. Whatever happens hopefully all of them avoid any poaching activity, won't find any hole in the fence nor they attract the tb. If succes awaits them or not let it be natural.
And on topic - I for sure will be rooting for the Othawa pride little fella to make it, no matter how odds are against him.
, Nhenha is the man!!
