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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (12-19-2018, 02:27 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm not sure which study that is or what tigers they are Comparing to but I have doubts about that claim. This one... Demography of a small, isolated tiger (Panthera tigris tigris) population in a semi-arid region of western India BTW, it's just a part of one sentence. So I'll save you some trouble & quote it... (Page 10 of 13) Quote:In highly inbred populations morphological abnormalities are often observed and resistance to disease is often They never said heaviest though...  (12-19-2018, 02:44 PM)Rishi Wrote:I'll have to read more later but taking a quick glance, this study only actually captured and collared 3 adult tigers the rest where observed or camera trapped, correct?(12-19-2018, 02:27 PM)Pckts Wrote: I'm not sure which study that is or what tigers they are Comparing to but I have doubts about that claim. If that's the case, we obviously know that no assumptions of a population can be made in regards to size. 
Here is just one article showing how strange things happen sometimes. Nice to know, that many people do their best to help these tigers, it gives some faith, that there is hope for these animals. Not something brand new news, but if someone haven´t noticed this.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/31/desperate...m-7276013/  (12-19-2018, 07:28 PM)Shadow Wrote: Here is just one article showing how strange things happen sometimes. Nice to know, that many people do their best to help these tigers, it gives some faith, that there is hope for these animals. Not something brand new news, but if someone haven´t noticed this. Yes, read that newspaper article some weeks ago. A full-grown emaciated wild Amur tigress asking for assistence in the teeth department after losing her canines. Remarkable:  *This image is copyright of its original author
THE FUTURE OF THE AMUR TIGER ACCORDING TO DMITRY PIKUNOV - PART II
c - Introduction to Part II In October 2014, 'Population and Habitat of the Amur Tiger in the Russian Far East' (D.G. Pikunov) was published in Achievements in the Life Sciences (Volume 8, Issue 2, pages 145-149). It was funded by the Far Eastern Federal University. In the first post on this article (post 1,798 of this thread), apart from the introduction (a), the history of the Russian Far East (b) was briefly discussed. That post had this map:  *This image is copyright of its original author It shows the territory Russia gained in 1858 (Treaty of Aigun) and 1860 (Treaty of Peking, now Beijing, 1860). Every disadvantage has an advantage and the other way round: the territory the Chinese lost most probably saved the Amur tiger - in the late thirties of the 20th century, the territory gained in 1860 had the last Amur tigers in Russia. The large tiger shot in 1943 near the Sungari river proves that some tigers made it to the early forties in Manchuria, but in the end they didn't survive the unslaught. In the Russian Far East it was a very close call as well: " ... By 1938-1939, the tiger population had decreased even further in the Russian Far East. L.G. Kaplanov noted that the tiger population gradually decreased due to the capture and shooting of young adult tigers. At this time, tigers were most common in the Sichote-Alin Reserve (10-12 individuals), and there were only 20-30 individuals in the Far East of Russia ... " ('Population and Habitat of the Amur tiger in the Russian Far East', D.G. Pikunov, 2014, pp. 3 of 14). Kaplanov's notes, by the way, were not published in the late thirties, but in 1948. The publication of 'Tiger in the Sichote-Alin', (L.G. Kaplanov, Bull. Mosc. Soc. Nat., 14 (29), 1948, pp. 18-19) was of crucial importance in that it alerted the authorities. A year before Kaplanov's notes were published, tiger hunting was banned in the Russian Far East. Poor Kaplanov never knew about the effect of his publication, as he died well before his time. He most probably was killed by poachers. d - Amur tiger distribution in northern Asia in the period 900-2017 Pikunov's publication has a lot of detailed information about the distribution of Amur tigers in the period 1800-2014 roughly. As it requires quite a bit of geographical knowledge to keep on track, I decided to add a number of maps. d1 - Middle Ages to 1970 I'll start with the map I found in 'Die Saugetiere der Sowjet-Union' (V.G. Heptner and A.A. Sludskij, Band III, Raubtiere, VEB Gustav Fisher Verlage Jena, 1980, pp. 95). It shows the northern limits of tiger distribution in northern Asia in the Middle Ages (black dots, question marks and Roman figures), in 1900 (continuous black line) and 1970 roughly (dotted line at the extreme right). As you can see, tigers most probably reached Sachalin in the extreme east and Ukraine and southwestern Russia in the Middle Ages (900-1100). Many hundreds of years later, tigers were still seen every now and then near the Ischim, Irtysch and Ob rivers (Caspain region). In northeastern Russia, tigers apparently reached the Lena and the Aldan rivers, about a thousand miles north of the Argun river. The liner notes are in German:  *This image is copyright of its original author d2 - About 1850 I saw this map in Mark Sokolsky's dissertation 'Taming Tiger Country: Colonization and Environment in the Russian Far East, 1860-1940' (Ohio State University, 2016), but the map is from Pikunov. Based on Barcly's article ('The Manchurian Tiger', F. Barclay, in: 'The Gun At Home And Abroad', The Big Game of Asia and North-America, 1915), I think that the southern tip of Korea should be included, as tigers have been hunted and shot on islands just south of Korea. According to Baikov ('The Manchurian Tiger', 1925 - I have the English translation of A. Shevlakov of 2000), the northeastern part of Manchuria (Guiring Province) was the 'basic home range' of the Amur tiger, " ... where it abides in multitude as, for example, in extensive primeval Woods of the upper river Sungari, the Lalhinke and Ashikhe, and also in the following river basins: the Mudan-jan, Maikhe, Muren and Sui-Fong ... " ('The Manchurian Tiger', N.A. Baikov, English translation, pp. 6 of 28):  *This image is copyright of its original author d3 - The period 1828-1953 This map, also from V.G. Heptner, shows the situation in eastern and northeastern Siberia in the period 1828-1953. In the first decades of the 19th century, tigers were seen and shot north and west of Lake Baikal (heavy black dots). When rifles became available for many, records of tigers shot in that region quickly disappeared. More than a century later, in the fifties of the previous century, Amur tigers, although severely threatened by then, really lived near the upper part of the Amur river (blank dots) and its tributaries like the Argun (south of the Amur) and the Seja (north of the Amur) rivers (blank and black dots). In the decades that followed, they completely disappeared in that part of Russia:  *This image is copyright of its original author d4 - The period 1940-1962 Yet another map from V.G. Heptner. This time, the focus is on the changes seen in the period 1900-1962 in general and 1940-1962 in particular. During the population crisis in the thirties and forties of the last century, tigers first disappeared from the northern part of the region they had occupied for so long. Although individuals reached the region north of the Amur river every now and then in the period 1920-1962 (blank dots), most of the remaining tigers lived in the extreme south of Sichote-Alin (striped line with dots). Compared to the situation at the beginning of the 19th century (uninterrupted heavy black line), they had moved south. Although the territory they occupied had increased somewhat in 1950 (striped line, no dots) and individuals still reached rivers well north of the Amur river in that period, Amur tigers would never breed north of the Amur river again. The large blank dot on Sachalin (referring to what most probably was a sighting in the beginning of the 19th century) is interesting:  *This image is copyright of its original author d5 - The situation in the Sichote-Alin Reserve in the 1939-1940 winter according to Kaplanov I found this map on the internet. The liner notes on the left say the map is based on Kaplanov's observations in the second half of the 1939-1940 winter. It is about the line with the small red dots (routes taken by the observers) and the depth of the snow cover. According to Kaplanov, there were 10-12 individuals in the Sichote-Alin Nature Reserve only. Their prints were only seen in districts where the depth of the snow cover didn't exceed 40 cm.:  *This image is copyright of its original author d6 - The situation in the period 1950-1970 By the 1950s, tigers had completely disappeared from (Manchuria and) the southern part of the Korean Peninsula. According to Pikunov, the southern border was just south of Pyongyang (capital of North-Korea). In the fifties of the last century, tigers still lost territory in Sichote-Alin as well. In spite of the loss of territory, the number of tigers in the Russian Far East slightly increased. In the mid-fifties of the previous century, there were 58-60 individuals in the entire Russian Far East (the Primorsky and Khabarovski territories). In order to improve the situation, radical measures were taken. In 1956, a complete ban was placed on the capture of cubs. According to Pikunov, this measure was needed " ... because the Primorye Zoologic Base could not provide the required conditions and professional personnel to maintain the animals ... " (Pikunov, 2014, pp. 4). Furthermore: " ... To streamline the economic use of tigers and their protection, the keeping of animal records was initiated in the winter of 1958-1959. (K.G.) Abramov (1961) was the first to develop a methodology for tiger accounting and proposed the width of big subunguis ('heel') of the predator's forelimb as the primary parameter ... " (Pikunov, 2014, pp. 4). Sichote-Alin has two administrative units: Primorsky Krai (southern part) and Khabarovsky Krai (northern part). In 1959, the Khabarovsky Krai had 36 tigers. In Primorsky Krai, " ... it was found that there were 60-65 tigers ... that included 12 adult males, 16 females (both with the broods and single), 23 cubs, and 12-14 individuals of unknown gender and age ... " (Pikunov, 2014, pp. 4-5). In the early sixties of the previous century, the population density in the northern part decreased as a result of the extensive development of the forests in the basins of the Bikin and Big Ussurka rivers. Furthermore, as a result of a number of years with poor harvests and deep snow, the number of wild boars decreased. In 1960-1961, tigers disappeared from the Amur region. A few years later, they left the Jewish Autonomous Region as well. In the southern part of Sichote-Alin, the number of tigers slightly increased. As a result, attacks on domestic animals became more frequent. For this reason, hunting permits were issued every now and then. In the extreme southwestern part of Sichote-Alin, a different population developed: " ... In the winter of 1964, 12 adult tigers were observed crossing the state border with China in the Pogranichny and Khankaisky areas. Thus, a group of 15-17 individuals emerged (3-4 residents and the 12 newcomers). The Pogranichny and Khankaisky areas of Primorye are separated from the mountain range of the Sichote-Alin by the vast treeless spaces of the Prikhankayskaya lowlands. Therefore, the tigers living here do not have contact with the animals that live in the mountain and forest areas of the Sichote-Alin. It should also be noted that the lands that are appropiate for long-term tiger stays in the Kahnka and border areas are too small, and probably for this reason, the migrant tigers either disappeared back to China or were illegally shot after some time ... " (Pikunov, 2014, pp. 5). This map (in 'Die Saugetiere der Sowjetunion', 1980, pp. 108) shows the situation in 1968, when there were 120-130 tigers in the entire Russian Far East. The map, made by S.P. Kucerenko and A.G. Pancratiev, shows that tigers still migrated to districts well north of the Amur river every now and then. Some of them covered many hundreds of miles:  *This image is copyright of its original author d7 - Summary of the period 1890-1940 Here's another nice map. This one is from K.G. and V.K. Abramov. It's in 'Die Saugetiere der Sowjetunion' (1980, pp. 109) and shows the northern, western and southern limits of the distribution at the end of the 19th century (uninterrupted heavy black line); regions that still had a few tigers in the 1930s (in red); territorial losses in the 20th century (horizontal double stripes) and occasional trips of individuals (males in the great majority of cases) into greener pastures (arrows). It doesn't show the situation in the late 1960s. In order to get there, you need the previous map. That one shows that Amur tigers had moved to the southern tip of Sichote-Alin in 1968:  *This image is copyright of its original author d8 - The period 1970-2015 Although the number of tigers slowly increased in the sixties, the area they used continued to decrease. Compared to the situation in 1960, the loss of territory, especially in the northern part of Sichote-Alin, was significant. By 1970, the left bank of the Amur river had lost all tigers. Most of the northern part of Sichote-Alin (Khabarovski Krai) also had been lost. In 1979, tigers occupied only two regions in the Russian Far East. The largest of these was in the southern part of Sichote-Alin (1). The smallest, about 500,000 ha, was located in the Khasansky and Nadeshdinsky districts and the western part of the Ussurisky district in the extreme southwest of Primorsky Krai (2). According to Pikunov, the southwestern region was completely separated from the region occupied in the southeastern part of Primorsky Krai by a highway, a railroad and vast open spaces near Lake Khanka: " ... Movements of tigers between these sections have not been registered ... " (Pikunov, 2014, pp. 6). Furthermore, " ... the majority of the tiger habitat is beyond the state border and partially located in the adjacent areas of China ... " (Pikunov, pp. 6). In the southern part of Sichote-Alin, the natural conditions were better than in the north. However, " ... it is precisely this region that has been affected by and is currently being exposed to growing anthropogenic pressure ... " (Pikunov, pp. 7). As a result of the pressure, tigers started moving north once again. In the northern part of their former range, the pressure was less. Habitat conservation resulted in better conditions and tigers quickly noticed. Although the number of tigers increased in the seventies (there were 172-195 individuals using a territory of 97,150 square km. in 1979 in Primorsky Krai alone), not a few (130) were lost in that decade as well. Most of these (78) were shot (with and without permits). Furthermore, a significant number of cubs (37) had been captured alive for zoos. In the seventies, the ban on capturing cubs apparently had been lifted for some time. About 15 tigers died of natural causes. In the seventies and early eighties, the tide was definitely changing: " ... A comparison of the boundaries of the ranges and distributions of tigers in 1970 ... with those in 1978-1979 ... revealed expansions in the area and increases in numbers occurred mainly in the northern regions of Primorye. By 1984-1985, increases in the number of tigers had occurred in ... all parts of the range. These increases were facilitated by the preservation of habitats and the consequently more favourable environmental conditions. The results of recordings from 1984-1985 revealed a further increase in the area of tiger habitat in Primorsky Krai tot 108,500 square km. Later, in the winter of 1995-1996, the increase in range in the Primorsky Territory continued to 123,000 square km., the range throughout the Far East of Russia expanded to 156,000 square km., and the number of individuals increased to 415-476 ... " (Pikunov, pp. 8). To finish this paragraph, a few more maps. Here's the situation in 1995-1996:  *This image is copyright of its original author This is the situation in 2011:  *This image is copyright of its original author The situation in 2015 based on an algorithm. My guess is the map is a bit wanting in some respects, as it says there are no tigers in the reserve just below Khabarovsk. Tkatchenko, however, said there were tigers only a few years ago. They were heavily involved in bears:  *This image is copyright of its original author Forest cover in Primorsky Krai, Heilongjiang and Jilin Provinces ('Taming Tiger Country: Colonization and Environment in the Russian Far East, 1860-1940', Dissertation of Mark Sokolsky, Ohio State University, 2016):  *This image is copyright of its original author e - Future In part III of the series, the focus will be on his proposals to ensure the future of the Amur tiger in the Russian Far East. In his opinion, Sichote-Alin needs two more reserves (about 46,00 - 50,000 square km. in total) to ensure the future of the Amur tiger. That post will also have information on the situation in northeastern China, including the new reserve close to the border with the Russian Federation and North-Korea. It's an enormous reserve (larger than the Netherlands!) located in the same region that had the, alleged, former Imperial Hunting Reserve. Here's the proposed new reserve (in red):  *This image is copyright of its original author And here's the, alleged, former Imperial Hunting Reserve again (from 'The Tiger's Claw', M.L. Taylor, 1956):  *This image is copyright of its original author According to G, Jankowski, the Imperial Tiger Park was created by one of the Manchurian Emperors. As hunting wasn't allowed for centuries (...), animals thrived. There are many rumours about the size of tigers in the Imperial Tiger Park. Pocock (1929) wrote about a skin from northern China exceeding 13 feet in length. According to Jankowski, longer skins have been measured. That should tell you something, as the skin of the enormous Sungari river tiger shot in 1943 was about 12.6. According to V. Jankowski ('Tiger, Deer, Ginseng', 1993), he was at least 350 kg. (about 772 pounds). The new Chinese reserve more or less includes the old Imperial Tiger Park. Coincidence?  (12-19-2018, 08:21 PM)peter Wrote: And here's the, alleged, former Imperial Hunting Reserve (from 'The Tiger's Claw', M.L. Taylor, 1956): This is the part that worried me a time ago @peter. According with Susie Green in her book "Tiger" of 2006 (from the Animal series), in page 13 to 15 she says this: "Besides differing coat markings, there is a huge variation in size between these subspecies, mainly because in hot climates animals usually decrease in size (the smaller the animal, the greater the evaporation surface area as a proportion of body weight, allowing more efficient dissipation of heat). However, Baikov and Yankovsky, hunting in Manchuria in the first half of the twentieth century, insist very large and much smaller tigers inhabited the same areas and that they were separate subspecies. As tigers are virtually extinct in the area it is impossible to check this, but Yakovsky claimed that many hundreds of years ago the ancient Mongol emperors designated hundreds of square miles of land north of theTumen river, quite nearwhat is now Vladivostok, as a sanctuary for tigers and leopards imported from India.(4) Over several centuries evolution, probably combined with selective culling of small tigers, lead to the emergence of a race of massive tigers possessing heavy, luxuriant, light-coloured coats, and reaching 4.25 m in length and weighing over 250 kg. Eventually, the sanctuary was abandoned and the tigers spread north to Sakhalin island and south to Korea and northern China, where they bred with the local tiger population creating a massive subspecies. Others claim that certain local mineral salts are responsible for the tiger’s great growth.(5) Yankovsky killed what was probably the last of these tigers around 1956." She quote this source for the specific part about the sanctuary: 4. Mary Linley Taylor, The Tiger’s Claw: The Life-story of East Asia’s Mighty Hunter (1956). IF, and only IF this is true, this suggest that the huge size of the Amur tigers actually came from the Bengal tigers! Did you ever found any information about this? I ask you because you collect old books. This is a mystery that botters me since while ago. 
Ive heard many sources sharing different opinions when it comes to Ranthambore tigers and central Indian tigers.
But IMHO Im pretty sure that Ranthambore tigers are atleast taller (bigger framed) than their central indian cousins. There could be many reason for this, The possible internal factor are, Ranthambore tigers ancestry goes back to a small group of tigers, since they descended from few individuals from the beginning they seem to be a highly inbred population. The unique geographic location makes them genetically isolated from other groups. Such genetic isolation and weak gene pool can make certain physical traits more pronounced. The possible external factors are, habitat and preybase. Ranthambore and its neighboring reserves were more drier, flat and arid compared to many of the central indian reserves. it seems more suitable for lions than to tigers. The prey animals were also smaller and faster. This may contribute to the taller and bigger frame. Ranth tigers do have a lighter orange colored skin with darker and thin stripes compared to central indian ones. As far as I know when it comes to gypsy comparison, Ranthambore males do appear taller than any central indian males near the gypsy vehicles. Ive seen tons of videos and still none appeared to be as tall as Ranth males. This is T28 male aka star male, a very tall and large framed male compared only to Khali male from Corbett (Khali was bigger though).  *This image is copyright of its original author This is T72 aka Sultan, look how tall he is even when he was a subadult. This is T12 male tiger, look how tall he is next to the vehicle. T24 aka Sultanpur male, check out his size near the door and the vehicle. T42 aka Fateh is a tall male too (12-20-2018, 07:11 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(12-19-2018, 08:21 PM)peter Wrote: And here's the, alleged, former Imperial Hunting Reserve (from 'The Tiger's Claw', M.L. Taylor, 1956): a - ABOUT THE BOOK OF MARY LINLEY TAYLOR AND THE GERMAN TRANSLATION I HAVE The book I have is called 'In der Taiga'. It was published by Verlag Paul Parey (Hamburg, Berlin) in 1958. It's a German translation of 'The Tiger's Claw' of Mary Linley Taylor, that was published 1956. In Germany, accuracy is much appreciated. My guess is that the German translation of 'The Tiger's Claw' is excellent. The book, by the way, was a present of a friend in Germany. He too is very interested in big cats. b - ABOUT MARY LINLEY TAYLOR Mary Linley Taylor was in Korea between 1918-1942. In Seoul, she met George Jankowski's daughter Ora (Victoria). She invited Mary Taylor to visit the home of her parents in the northern part of Korea. When Mary Taylor talked to George Jankowski, he was in his late fifties. As he was born in 1880, Mary Taylor and George Jankowski most probably met in the late thirties of the previous century. Taylor's book is largely based on her conversations with Jankowski. My guess is she made notes and added info from those who knew him. Apparently, she also read a book he wrote. When her book was published, Georg Jankowski was unknown in the west. According to Taylor, Roy Chapman Andrews, Willard Price and Berman and Ferdinand Ossendowski were the only ones who had heard about him. c - ABOUT THE TITLE When she was young, Mary Linley Taylor got a gift from her grandfather, who had been a sailor. It was a claw of a tiger. The claw was kept in a small handmade bag that had light blue emblems on it. They seemed to be Chinese, but were not. When she left England, her father asked her to find out as much as possible about the bag and the claw. In order to find answers, she visited many Asian countries. Mary Linley Taylor was not a tiger specialist, but knew more about them than most others. Her quest to find out as much as possible about the claw resulted in a book ('The Tiger's Claw') that was published in 1956. d - ABOUT SUZIE GREEN AND HER REMARK ON THE TIGERS IN THE ALLEGED FORMER IMPERIAL HUNTING RESERVE After reading your post, I reread the parts of Taylor's book that have info about the alleged former Imperial Tiger Park. Most of it is on page 42 of the German translation. To keep it short: there's nothing about India or Indian tigers on page 42. According to Georg Jankovski, the size of the tigers in the former Imperial Tiger Park was a result of good conditions and centuries of protection: " ... Jahrhundertelang durfte innerhalb seiner Grenzen nicht gejagt werden. So gedieh das Raubwild und wurde viel starker als seine Ahnen ... " ('In der Taiga', pp. 42). However. On page 41, India features in that Mary Linley Taylor saw a skin that was larger than the skins she had seen in india. Georg Jankowski saw she was interested and told her when and how the owner had been shot. So how did Suzie Green get to her remark on'" ... a sanctuary for tigers and leopards imported from India ... " (from your post)? The answer is I don't know. My guess is she mixed rumours and slops and added a bit of chili. Most unfortunately, it was published. One result was that some of those interested tigers were affected. Another is she, indirectly, forced me to invest time in debunking her nonsense. e - SCANS (in German) e1 - Title page and photograph:  *This image is copyright of its original author e2 - Page 41 It's about the part in green and yellow. In Jankowski's home, Mary Taylor saw a tiger skin that was larger than all the skins she had seen in India:  *This image is copyright of its original author e3 - Page 42 Georg Jankowsky was sceptical of reports about extra-large tigers. He definitely was aware about the difference between a measurement taken 'over curves' and a measurement taken 'between pegs'. In spite of his doubts, he said that skins of up to almost 14 feet had been measured. Pocock (1929) also referred to a skin well exceeding 13 feet in length. The skin of the tiger shot in 1943 was over 375 cm. in total length. As to weight. A 'Zentner' is 100 German pounds or 50 kg. (111-112 English pounds). In his opinion, large males exceeded 5 'Zentner' or 250 kg. (550 English pounds). In this respect, he was quite conservative. According to his son Valery, the tiger shot in 1943 was at least 300 kg. In the book he published in 1993, he said the tiger was over 350 kg. (772 pounds). There are more records of wild Amur tigers well exceeding 300 kg. In an evaluation published about a decade ago, all reports were qualified as 'unreliable'. I do not doubt they had good reasons, but that doesn't mean that these reports were a result of imagination. It means the proof needed was not there. Anyhow. There's not a word about tigers or leopards imported from India. Suzie Green was crapping, that is. Here's the proof:  *This image is copyright of its original author e4 - Page 138 It's about the third paragraph, in which the former Imperial Tiger Park is mentioned again. Not a word about Indian tigers or leopards:  *This image is copyright of its original author f - THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDIAN AND AMUR TIGERS In 2012, I visited a biologist in Belgium. When a big cat perished in a zoo or safaripark, they called him. The result was he had a nice collection of skulls. When I had measured all of them, he proposed to study skulls of Amur and Indian tigers in order to find the differences. We found so many, that I wouldn't know where to start. Most of them have never been described. Skullwise, they really are quite different from each other. Every time I visited the big cat facility in the northern part of the Netherlands, I used the opportunity to watch the cats. When I interviewed trainers, we talked about the differences between tiger subspecies for hours. The directors I interviewed also had seen significant differences between different subspecies. To keep it short: there are many differences between Indian and Amur tigers. As to transporting tigers from India to Manchuria in, say, 1500 or so. I know the Romans transported exotic animals to Rome, but it isn't as easy as many think. It takes a lot of knowledge and a smooth organisation to keep wild animals healthy during transport. In the fifties of the last century, most of the cubs captured in Russia (13 out of 15 in one year only, according to Pikunov) perished during transport. You need commitment, knowledge, facilities and luck. Today, Himalayan tigers are the largest wild big cats. Back then, based on everything known, Amurs most probably were. In the last two centuries, they suffered. Most of us have no idea about the effects of the problems they faced. In the thirties, fourties, fifties and sixties, Amur tigers were hunted to extinction in every region but the Primorsky Krai. A lot of variation vanished. Genetically, they're all but done for. I'm not surprised to read that they're now considering using the genes of some captive Amur tigers. To conclude. Nothing can be excluded, but it seems very unlikely that the Manchurian rules would have visited India to transport Indian tigers to the Imperial Tiger Park.  (12-19-2018, 08:21 PM)peter Wrote: THE FUTURE OF THE AMUR TIGER ACCORDING TO DMITRY PIKUNOV - PART II It looks like the new vast tiger reserve in China is going to border the Land of Leopard NP behind the Russian border so that will create a vast trans-boundary protected area as for example Serengeti-Masai Mara in Tanzania-Kenya. These mountain ranges are inhabited not only by tigers but also by Amur leopards because they have a bit milder climate than Sihote Alin mountain range which is inhabited only by tigers. For now the largest protected area in domain of the Amur tiger is newly created Bikin national park (11 000 sq. km.), 3 times the size of Sihote Alin state reserve. 
Here is one interesting article about tigers. Parts concerning conservation programs and poaching are good to read and understand how important monitoring of projects is. A fancy name for some conservation program and headlines how much money is guided for that means nothing if there is no-one watching how money is used in reality.
https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2014...-in-india/
The Caspian tiger was no joke:
A) Iran: Early 1940's: http://www.tigers.ca/Foundation%20overview/caspian2.htm  *This image is copyright of its original author 1912, this website also has other information, including on the Singaporean tiger: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showthrea...age=3&vc=1  *This image is copyright of its original author B) Caucasus: Heptner and Sludskiy quoted Konstanin Satunin as saying that there was a huge Trans-Caucasian tiger with long fur and appearing "no smaller than a common Tuzemna horse", from Prishibinsk (present-day Göytəpə in Azerbaijan), Pages 141–144: *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author C) Central Asia: Karakalpakstan, currently an autonomous republic in Uzbekistan: http://around-karakalpakstan.blogspot.com/2013/11/  *This image is copyright of its original author These Caspian tigers look good enough to be rivals for this Amur tiger from the Primorye region: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/books...ine-t.html  *This image is copyright of its original author It would moreover be helpful if we could have measurements for museum specimen, unless Vratislav Mazák (https://web.archive.org/web/201203091255...1-0001.pdf) took care of that already? Medical College in Baku, Azerbaijan: http://www.tigers.ca/Foundation%20overview/caspian2.htm  *This image is copyright of its original author Persian tiger in the Georgian National Museum: http://kavehfarrokh.com/heritage/the-las...n-georgia/, http://museum.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&s...nfo_id=847  *This image is copyright of its original author Also, check this out (https://wwf.ru/upload/iblock/d6d/atacoll...ll_eng.pdf), it gives surprising dates as to when people saw Caspian tigers in different parts of their range, long after the date of extinction given by this report (https://www.felineconservation.org/uploa...ersion.pdf), which nevertheless provides an interesting insight as to what people did for the Caspian tiger before 1970.  (12-17-2018, 02:21 PM)peter Wrote:(12-17-2018, 01:02 PM)johnny rex Wrote: Still no update from Altai's skull @peter ? Had Mazak measured the skull personally? (12-22-2018, 11:43 PM)johnny rex Wrote:(12-17-2018, 02:21 PM)peter Wrote:(12-17-2018, 01:02 PM)johnny rex Wrote: Still no update from Altai's skull @peter ? Yes: " ... The largest tiger skull I measured, was that of an old Ussuri male tiger from the northern part of Heilongjiang (northeastern China) that is in the Berlin Museum fur Naturkunde. I think it's interesting to add a number of details: Greatest total length: 383,0 mm. Condylobasal length: 342,0 mm. Basal length: 316,2 mm. Rostrum width: 113,0 mm. Zygomatic width: 268,0 mm. Mastoid width: 148,5 mm. Mandible length: 260,0 mm. Pm4: 37,8 mm. Length of the right upper canine measured 'over curves': 74,5 mm. Height of the sagittal crest (central part): 27-30 mm. Height of the sagittal crest (posterior part): 47-50 mm. At the end of this chapter, I want to add a bit more on the maximum skull length of Ussuri tigers. During his last trip to China in the sixties, J. Bartusek of the Czecho-Slovakian Institute for the Oriënt got an old photograph from an official source showing a very large skull of an old male tiger. It was assumed that the photograph was made ... by a European in northern China in the late thirties of the previous century. Although it has some dark sports typical ..., it is in good condition. The back of the photograph (which measures 65 x 90 mm.) has a few handmade notes in English: Tiger, Chanwangshai; Length 16'', Width, 11 1/4; Height 7 11/16; Jaw (canines) 4 11/16; Mandible, 10 7/8; Canine, 3''; Sagittal crest 2''. When comparing the measurements ... to those of (other large skulls), ..., this skull, most probably from the Zhangguangcailing Mountains, was that of an exceptionally large male Ussuri tiger. I think the measurements could be reliable, as it is likely that a very large tiger, like the one ... shot in the upper range of the Sungari river (by V. Jankowski and his team), will produce an exceptional skull ... " (V. Mazak, 1983, pp. 193-194 - rough translation from the German edition published in 1983).  *This image is copyright of its original author
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